News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Really? The Church had the power to demand hundreds of millions of zloty for their land - AND GET IT? I think not. And political power? What political power? The Church only existed because the Communists tolerated it as (to paraphrase) "an opiate of the masses".

Compare that to nowadays, where the Church holds massive influence over the country - although that influence is diminishing - again, due to the Church doing idiotic things. The recent IVF situation did nothing but harm the Church's credibility.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Good on him. It's about time that someone high up had the balls to tell it how it is.


What has hating Jews got to do with the problems of the Catholic Church in Poland? Actually, now that you say it - one of the big problems in Poland is the way that the Jew-haters are accepted as Catholics.


You don't really see it in Aberdeen, but look at the Central Belt - the Catholic Church has such OTT views on schooling (they tried to have a joint campus for both Catholics and others, but the RCC demanded seperate playgrounds and toilets!). It's the same self-destructive behaviour that you can see in Poland today.


The problem in Poland is that the Communists gave up power, only for the Church to be elevated to the same position. End result = mass abuse of power that's only starting to come to light. Certainly, there's a huge untold story with collaborating priests - we know that a minority of clergy in other Communist countries were collaborating with the authorities. The greed of individual members of the RCC is coming clear as well - endless stories in Poland of the Church demanding huge payouts for land that was stolen. The money also vanishes into black holes, as well.


No, Polonius. The people who need pity and prayers are the ones who are destroying the RCC from within. Are you really so narrow minded as not to see that the RCC is going down the exact same path in Poland as it did elsewhere? That same path ended in failure - shouldn't they learn from others mistakes?

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


So - you need to attack the Anglican church to avoid accepting what Wieniewski is saying? Cute.

Perhaps you might want to worry about what's going on in Poland, rather than thinking about Anglicans.

News / Sikorski doctrine - Eastern Europe under threat. Poland's foreign policy. [203]


Just like Poland was 20 years ago, and how it's still seen by most Westerners as being some poor backwater with a few pretty towns.

Get off your high horse - Poland isn't much better.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]

So - if modernisation results in child abuse, how can you explain the sexual abuse cases in the Irish church, which hasn't modernised?

Let's face it- it's only the Church's influence in Poland that's stopped sex abuse cases here from becoming public. That, and the existence of some unfavourable laws towards the media.

News / What should Poland do with the problem of Belarus? [1800]


Wait - isn't there exit visas for Belarusians? I was under the impression they still had them... maybe I'm getting mixed up with the need for an exit visa for foreigners if their visa has expired. Hmm.

edit : I was right, sort of - permission was needed to cross the Belarusian frontier for Belarusian citizens until 2008. So - it's only in the last 3 years that they've had the ability to leave without interference. Ukraine apparently had a similar law until a few years ago.

Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]


I haven't even looked at it yet, but I bet it's good ;)

Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]

I think it's just because it's an anglicised word, so there's no accepted spelling - probably because it's not actually being taught or used anywhere official-ish.

From what I can see, it's just like any other slur - some people embrace it, others get offended by it. But it's certainly an American thing - I still haven't met any Poles who knew what "polack" meant in English.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Perhaps you might want to look at what's been happening in Western Europe before talking. The Catholic Church is in a position of weakness in Italy, Spain and Ireland - but is in a position of relative strength in Germany and the UK. Why? Simple - the Church was forced to reform in those countries, while in the countries where they were dominant, no-one stopped their abuse of power until it was too late.

You're not in Poland, so you clearly don't see what's happening - young people are abandoning the Church in droves. Is that good for the future of the Church? No.


And it is steadily losing that position through its own unwillingness to deal with the difficult problems that it has. Are you really so out of touch that you can't see this?


What does Michnik have to do with anything? The thread is about the Catholic Church, not Adam Michnik.

Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]

Dumb Pollock, dumb Polak, dumb Polack, dumb Pollack..all the same :P

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


It's the usual story - when someone in the Church says something that they don't want to hear, they ignore it. Same with the cross scenario - they refused to accept the authority of almost everyone because it didn't agree with their agenda.

Yet, they call themselves Catholic. They make me sick.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Perhaps he should read Wisniewski's letter again.

I wonder how many of the "churchists" have actually read it?

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Yup - if it was backed up by serious, worldwide child protection policies, there really would be nothing to argue about. It would even strengthen the church - and would perhaps finally rid the church of the "haven for child abusers" label.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


He's doing an ok job, but he's failing miserably to stop the Vatican from attempting to interfere with legal processes. Whta he should do is simply demand that the Church fully cooperates with the law in identifying the abusers and ex-communicating them without delay.

I suspect such a move would gain huge respect from all but the loony branches.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Some of them did, but in a non-governmental capacity.

But the President himself and his team have no influence - it's a ceremonial role.

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]

I'm shocked that it's not only...so-called "visibile minorities" getting upset, but even white Americans look for excuses to be upset. What a horrid, vicious circle :(

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Funny - when people use gossip and suppositions against the people who thrive on it, they seem to complain and howl. It's the exact same reason that Palikot has so much fun winding up Kaczynski supporters - they like to spread nonsense, but they can't stand when the nonsense is used against them.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Erm, perhaps you might want to ask yourself just how someone got such a spacious flat in such an area during PRL times.

I've long thought that Jarek's obsession with "bolek" is all due to shame at his father's collusion.

News / Polish President Lech Kaczynski and gov officials die in a plane crash in Russia [686]

Apparently he was quite identifiable, according to that lawyer who is causing all the trouble at the minute. It did strike me as odd that the First Lady was almost unidentifiable, but Lech was - I guess plane crashes do funny things to bodies.

But come on Jarek, leave him alone. He doesn't deserve to be dug up and pawed at for political purposes. He's in Wawel, people have accepted it and moved on - there's just no need to use his dead body for twisted political purposes.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


The problem is that by the time they realise that they need to change, it'll be too late and the Church will be in a position similar to their position in Italy or Spain. They're certainly going to regret being involved so heavily with politics in Poland - I think all but the most deluded people can see what harm the crisis over the cross did to the Church.


I can't see it happening, sadly. But I suspect that the days of cashing in at the State's expense are over - almost every major action of theirs to reclaim assets are being met with outright hostility.


And herein lies the problem - they can think, and they're seeing the harm done by elements of the Church in Poland. These people are the lifeblood of the Catholic Church - after all, who has the money to give 20zl instead of 6zl for a christmas candle? Certainly not the elder Kaczynski voters - who are dying out anyway.


Only a deluded person would call the most popular newspaper in Poland "worthless".

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]

Plastic Paddies, nothing else.

How many of them can name the Irish President, I wonder? Heck, I wonder if many of them can even name the Taoiseach?

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]

In other words, America is populated by thugs who take offence at the slightest thing?

(for what it's worth, Irish-Americans are not Irish).

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]


I know a few Irish people and none of them are bothered by Mick or Paddy.

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]

Jock would be far better ;) Nothing worse than being mistaken for being English :P

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]


I'd be highly offended if anyone called me Anglo!

Life / Stubborn Polaks, anyone knows? [77]


Only in American English - in British English, we wouldn't use it at all. I only use it on here to antagonise "dumb Polacks" ;)


polockjohnnys.com

It's arguable that it's not even an ethnic slur in the USA - plenty of people are using it freely, and it doesn't seem to have the same impact as the n-bomb, for instance.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


Of course they haven't - did you really expect them to rationally talk about what he has to say? Nope, they bring up Michnik and GW yet again - which is exactly the kind of behaviour that Wisniewski is warning about. Funny, no?


I think we all know that daddy Kaczynski sold himself to the Communist authorities - it may explain in part Kaczynski's hatred towards Communists - he's still trying to convince himself that his father wasn't a traitor.

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]

I understand it just fine - it's utter nonsense to use someone's origins against them in Poland, because there are so many people with different origins.

Even if Michnik is a "Jewish Jew" - what's the issue? Why does his religion have anything to do with his politics?

News / A devestating verdict on the Polish church [279]


He says he's a "Pole with Jewish origins". That doesn't make him Jewish, but it certainly makes him Polish.

Unless of course, you think "Jewish origins = Jew" - in which case, you admit that many of Poland's greatest figures aren't actually Polish at all. Like Mickiewicz, who was Polish of Lithuanian origins. Or even Pilsudski.

Life / Babcia or Busha - any social class difference? [359]


Wrong. Poles couldn't care less about it - because they don't know it as a racial slur.


Uh, when did this happen? If they left 100 years ago, there was no Poland - so how could Ukrainians "overrun" it?