The BEST Guide to POLAND
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Posts by Paulina  

Joined: 31 Jan 2008 / Female ♀
Warnings: 1 - Q		 Last Post: 11 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 19 / Live: 13 / Archived: 6
Posts: Total: 4675 / Live: 3666 / Archived: 1009 		From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: yes

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Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

it was established that we are indeed in Eastern Europe.

By whom? By you? :)

Perhaps that's because I (and various other posters who've made the same points) am right.

Jon, just because you say you're right it doesn't make you right ;)
Do you know why I proposed architecture for the topic of our discussion? Because I've spent 5 years studying history of art and architecture, I've graduated from an art school with top marks and I've visited some countries in Western and Central Europe for the sole purpose of sightseeing, so I have some idea about what I'm writing.

Poland had all the Western styles of architecture. From Romanesque architecture to Art Nouveau - have your pick.
Now, which of the Western architecture styles can you find in Russia?

So you're posting in a thread that you haven't bothered to read and are accusing others of being lazy!

I have a dry eye syndrome resulting from Sjögren's syndrome. So, no, it's not laziness... I'm a bit disadvantaged in the terms of reading, you see. If I could, I would read the whole thread. It's not always easy to admit to your weaknesses :) Taking part in this discussion is already a challenge...

That does rather cast doubt on anything else you've tried to say.

No, it doesn't.
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

I doubt you could do that if you tried with all the skill you can muster, however you may like to scan through some earlier posts in this thread by myself and others in which the matters you are interested in have been discussed fully.

No, jon, I'm not gonna read 23 pages, sorry. You weren't lazy when you wrote that Poland is Eastern in basically everything so don't be lazy in proving it. At least couple of sentences, some photos, come on :) I've proposed you just one topic for discussion - Polish architecture.

I can't think of anything "onion shaped" other than that.

Well, maybe a mosque could have something like that :)
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meczet_w_Bohonikach

I guess Poland is Middle East since we have mosques too ;)

Actually the village has one of each, RC and Polish Orthodox. Both have onion domes.

Now that's cool - could make photos of each? :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

John I live in Poland! I'm right now in Poland! And I have no idea what are you talking about!

Me too :)) I was born in Poland, I live here all my life and I visited Western and Central European countries, but I'm not sure what he's talking about. Maybe he's writing about Orthodox churches?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Perhaps you think that agriculture is the same everywhere.

So agriculture can be Eastern too? xD You've got me completely confused about what you understand as "landscape".
Do you mean: nature
Or: nature and architecture
Or maybe: only architecture?

No, I mean church. 'Cerkiew' is a Polish word.

I know how it's called in English, but I wanted to know whether you mean by that an Orthodox/Greek Catholic Church? This is how it's called in Polish - "cerkiew". A Catholic church is "kościół".

Or even better, perhaps you could explain why you think/pretend it isn't.

No, don't be lazy :) You wrote that, so now explain why you "think/pretend" it is.
In order not to encumber you too much - let's start with architecture, since you've mentioned "onion-domed church" :)
What is Eastern about Polish architecture? Explain, please :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Actually I'm being very objective and absolutely unbiased.

xD
I'm just as crushed by this assessment as Grzegorz is ;)))

You however seem to have an axe to grind, probably a mix of cultural cringe and misplaced nationalism.

Well, it's just shows how little (very little, really...) you know about me (yet you're quick to judge).
I don't have a "cultural cringe" and I'm not a nationalist. I'm a liberal by Polish standards, I vote for PO and pretty much detest PiS lol Not enough? I'm tolerant as far as nationality, race, and religion is concerned. I was very happy when Obama was elected and my eyes get all wattery every time I hear 'I Have a Dream' speech on TV ;) I've spent at least 5 years defending Russians and Russia (and East Slavs) from Poles on the internet (and in real life too). Not enough? I'm all for ecuminism of Christian denominations, I even went to Germany for a youth gathering of Taizé Community. I absolutely love how the Orthodox churches look like :) I also don't downgrade any other religions or cultures. I believe Judaism and Islam are Christianity's sister religions and it always pains me when we are at our throats.

My uncle is Ukrainian :)
I have Russian friends :)
Oh, and I have nothing against gays or lesbians too! Can you imagine? ;)
That's me in the jist, more or less.

I spend quite a lot of time in Central Europe, however here, where I live in Warsaw, is uncompromisingly Eastern Europe.

In what way is Warsaw Eastern Europe?

I'm not sure what the textspeak is about - perhaps you should attend a better language school, however yes, the landscape round here is much more Eastern than you'd like to admit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landscape

Now, in what way landscape in Poland is more "Eastern" than, let's say, in Germany?

Check out the 'Europe of Squirrels' and the 'Europe of Rabbits' for a nice comparison.

What are you talking about? o_O
Squirrels and rabbits in Poland are more Eastern than in Germany? xD

Anyway, I'm just off to my friend's house out of town (single storey, wooden, opposite an onion-domed church) for some pierogi and vodka. Maybe some kasza and cabbage soup too.

Onion-domed church - you mean "cerkiew"?
And when you come back, tomorrow for example, will you explain why you consider Polish "culture, cuisine, tradition, language, history, architecture, landscape, economic output and geography" - as Eastern? :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Google it. You'll certainly find plenty in this thread.

I've Google it and I'm definitely not suffering from that lol

We also share some with Italians, e.g. Pizza. Nobody. I hope nobody is suggesting that makes Poland part of Southern Europe. The overwhelming bulk of the Polish culinary tradition is Eastern European, part of a continuum stretching from the Polish western border right to Vladivostok.

Yes, we share Pizza with Italians too, as the rest of the world. But the rest of the world doesn't share saurkraut with the Germans ;) Or does it?

We also share religion, alphabet, architecture, art with the West.

Often a relative newcomer has far less political and cultural baggage and cares little about the various inter-Eastern European debates and arguments. In short, objectivity.

As already illustrated by my comment from 17:34 objectivity doesn't look like your strongest point... It's interesting that you think that you have less political and cultural baggage.

What I see is a lot of special pleading

You see it this way, becuase you're not being objective.

by people who earnestly want for whatever reason that Poland isn't in Eastern Europe, despite culture,

Listen, man, the only reason I even write in this thread is because of people like you and berni23. I don't have a special wish of being Central, Eastern or Martian for that matter lol Berni23 even doesn't want to enumerate Eastern European countries but wants Poland to be in Eastern Poland very much - you're not curious why?

despite culture, cuisine

I've already wrote about the culture. And as for cuisine - Polish cuisine is a mix of many cuisines, especially of our neighbours, but not only. For example, goulash isn't Slavic, you know ;) We also eat dishes that are considered Slavic (some claim they aren't because you have dumplings in Italy or Asia too), because we're Slavs lol Noone claims we aren't lol

tradition,

What tradition?

language,

Even the language is West Slavic language not East Slavic. Poles are West Slavs. So, yes, we differ from the East Slavs. Why is it such a problem for you?

history,

Wha...? How history can be Eastern? lol

architecture,

What's Eastern about Polish architecture? ;D

landscape,

O__________O

:D

OMG, in Poland even landscape is Eastern... The sky and the Sun probably too :D

economic output

What do you mean?

and geography.

According to geography Poland is Central Europe ;D

Basically a desire to separate Poland from centuries of tradition and from its largest and most dominant neighbour.

What tradition?
And what separates Poland from "its largest and most dominant neighbour" is a bit more then our desire ;) You're making biased assumptions, again.
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

The situation is a complicated one, and those posters who whine on about wanting Poland to be in Eastern rather than Central Europe would do far better to examine their motives for that wish.

:)

Objectivity - you've got to love it :)))
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Could you detail it?Thanks.

Dear Lord, I've been discussing with Russians for 5/6 years... How can I detail it? lol
But I'll try to write something after I'll eat ;)

Just take the language and ethnicity map and you have the countries belonging to the Eastern European groups.

Berni, I don't care about maps as I'm not sure what they are telling you.
I want to know which countries YOU consider Eastern European.
Enumerate.... them... please :)

We are and claiming that France and Germany are culturally identical is ridicules.
They have been fighting for centuries.

Berni, you put that map on the forum intending to prove your point and you achieved the opposite, which I find quite funny, that's all ;)

Me neither, the fanatical views that Poland is ethnically and linguistically closer to the West than its eastern neighbors seem to be deeply rooted in some people.

You're twisting it, noone claims that Poland ethnically and linguistically is closer to the West than its Eastern neighbors (although maybe it is to some extent but I'm not going to go as far as digging in genetics lol). But culturally - yes, it's closer.

There is no reasoning with such people.

And what reasoning there can be with someone who can't even enumerate Eastern European countries?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Yeah, i want many things too.
You seem like an intelligent person and im sure you could manage.

Now, now, berni23, you won't slip away that easily :)
It's not about which countries I, Paulina, consider Eastern European, but which countries you, berni23, consider Eastern European. So, please, enumerate them. It's not like there are hundreds of them or something :)

They are not.

Photoshop says they are :)

I guess i have to retract my previous statement:

lol
So it came already to name calling, eh? :)
Are we talking about the same map?
Because I wrote about this one:
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Or Inbetween Europe. ;)

You have some objection to the word "Central"? lol ;)

Berni, those maps differ. That's why I want you to write down all the countries you consider Eastern European. Enumerate them, please ;)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

that's rather a wild generalisation isn't it....

Is it? What an average British man/woman know about countries East of Germany? I don't mean Russia, because they're ought to know something about Russia (some even thought Warsaw is in Russia... lol)

kind of dismissing all educated or knowledgeable british people in one fell swoop....?

Erm... I'm not dismissing anyone, I don't think it's about education, rather about interest, don't you think?
I think that because of the isolation of the communist block Westerners in general know little about countries which were part of that block. I imagine it will be changing with time (or not, who knows).

It's no use to explain to him all those intricacies.

I know, but I like to get to the bottom of things and find out why Poland being Central is such a big problem for him ;)

I suspect the desire of some posters here to pretend that Poland isn't Eastern European at all is made up of 25% Russophobia, 25% Cultural Cringe, 25% ignorance and/or lack of perspective on Eastern and Central Europe and 25% cluelessness.

Am I one of those "some posters"? :) If so, then you are wrong. I'm not a russophobe, far, far, faaar from that. I can give you e-mail adresses of my Russian friends who can attest for that :) (even my Russian "enemies" wouldn't consider me a russophobe ;))

What is Cultural Cringe?
As for ignorance and lack of perspective I probably know more about Poland and Eastern Europe than you do?
And concerning cluelessness - Eastern Europeans don't consider Poles Eastern. It was my discussions with Russians that made my see how deep is the division between East and West Slavs...

The Westerners don't consider Poles Western, the Easterners don't consider Poles Eastern - so the only reasonable and logical conclusion is that were're Central lol ;) All in all, all this is funny anyway - nobody wants us, damn :)))

So, berni23, will you answer my question today? Which countries would you put in Eastern Europe?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

As i already said if one would name one region of Europe where a language of the Slavic family is spoken it would be Eastern Europe

Not only Eastern Europe:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavic_peoples

The Slavic people are an Indo-European ethnic-linguistic group living in Central Europe, Eastern Europe, Southeast Europe, North Asia and Central Asia, who speak the Indo-European Slavic languages

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Slavic_europe.svg

since geographically it makes the most sense.

What do you mean? To you Slavic = The East? And any country which isn't Slavic isn't Eastern Europe?

Oh come on, i will certainly not debate if Russian is a Slavic language.

Erm... I won't either, that's not why I've put this quote on here o_O I've quoted this fragment because in the article on Russian language Wiki again calls Polish Central European language.

I will go into the details of your questions tomorrow.

OK.
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

What do other countries have to do with your challenge of me saying:

LOL

I'm trying to understand why do you put Poland "ethnically, linguistically and culturally" in Eastern Europe :)

OK, I'll ask a very simple question then: which countries would you put in Eastern Europe? Poland and...?

Im sure it would make an interesting discussion, but another day.

I'll be waiting patiently then :)

And Wiki again: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language

Over the course of centuries, the vocabulary and literary style of Russian have also been influenced by Western and Central European languages such as Greek, Latin, Polish, Dutch, German, French, and English,[27]

Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

We could go into details of the Polish Commonwealth, Polish lands in the east etc., but its late and im tired.

We could, but that was only a part of Polish history - Poland is around 1000 years old. And those lands in the East aren't "Polish" anymore anyway.

im tired and i will take that:

And you'll ingore the rest of the sentence? :):

However, we share the same alphabet (Latin) and religion (Catholic) with the West, as opposed to Eastern Slavs whose alphabet (Cyrillic script) and religion (Orthodox Christianity) stem from the Byzantine culture, not the Latin one.

The division between the East and the West came into being long ago, at the time of the East-West Schism: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

I dont know whats not to understand. I was stating that i dont mean the political terms of Eastern and Western Europe but

OK, sorry, I've misunderstood.

You are drifting off again.

No, I'm not, actually. You're not answering my questions.
I've asked where would you put Hungary?
Or Romania? Or Estonia? Lithuania? Latvia?

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally - what are those countries? After all, ethnically and linguistically Poles have pretty much nothing to do with them. So?
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

What does religion, architecture

Alphabet, religion, art - it's something of which culture consists of. In this case Latin vs Byzantine.

the political system

Well, you were hinting at the political division after WW2, weren't you? So maybe you'll explain it to me?

to do with the language and ethnicity?

Wait a minute, so you divide Europe into the East and the West solely on the basis of language and ethnicity? o_O
If so, then where do you put Hungary?

Since we are quoting wiki:

Well, I see that in one article Wiki puts Poland in Central Europe and in another in Eastern (or, at least, the West Slavic languages) :)

OK then, Sorbian is a West Slavic language - does it make Eastern Germany... Eastern Europe?

Depends what you compare it to.

True, but Poland joining the EU is definitely more recent than Poland being on "the wrong side of the Iron Curtain" :)
Paulina   
2 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Poland is and was culturally much closer to its eastern neighbors then its western

Actually, even this statement isn't quite correct, I think... As far as spoken language and ethnicity are concerned we're closer to Slavs in the East than Romance and Germanic nations in the West, North and South or Hungarians and Greeks.

However, we share the same alphabet (Latin) and religion (Catholic) with the West, as opposed to Eastern Slavs whose alphabet (Cyrillic script) and religion (Orthodox Christianity) stem from the Byzantine culture, not the Latin one.

You've heard about the Great Schism?:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism

Take a look at Polish architecture, for example. It always embraced Western styles while adding some minor local details. There was no Gothic style in Russia, for example. Russia didn't embrace the dramatic style of Baroque architecture either, because why would it do that? There was no Counter-Reformation there.

Polish church:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kosciol_mariacki_krakow.jpg
Russian church:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Moscow_July_2011-4a.jpg

And where would you put the poor Hungarians? ;) They're not Slavic, so...?

No, i meant the political division after WW2.

No that "recent", is it?
And not correct anymore, either. If the Cold War division put Poland in the minds of Westerners in Eastern Europe (or rather outside of Europe, as at the time of joining the EU we were told by the Western media, that we were coming back to EUROPE, as if the EU was Europe lol :)))) then where are we now? Politically we're in the EU. So what does it make us? lol (no that I care, to be honest)
Paulina   
1 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Again although cartographically correct nowadays, Poland is and was culturally much closer to its eastern neighbors then its western

Yet it's different enough to not be considered Eastern European. Poland is neither West nor East. It's in between, not only geographically.

and if one would divide Europe into regions based on that Poland would belong to Eastern Europe.

Yes, an ignorant would that, I imagine ;)

I was indeed hinting at that,

You see, there you go.

but specifically didnt mention recent political divisions.

What "recent political divisions"? You mean Poland being in the EU?
Paulina   
1 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

I am not surprised, British people know very little about countries East of Germany :)
Perhaps this is the place to get them educated a bit? ;) If they are willing, that is...
Paulina   
1 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Ethnically, linguistically and culturally Poland is still Eastern Europe. ;)

Actually, linguistically and culturally Poland never was Eastern European. It seems you're confused by the Cold War division of Europe. I guess that's why you wrote "still" :)
Paulina   
1 Jan 2013
History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

I don't feel offended :) There's nothing offensive about being Eastern European.
Although I guess it would be probably more precise to call it Central European language as Poland is located in Central Europe:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Europe
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/466681/Poland

And Polish is West Slavic language:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_language
britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/467443/Polish-language

But impressive post altogether, kcharlie :)
Paulina   
25 Jan 2011
Language / Terms of endearment in Polish [222]

What does "boy- sheek" mean in Polish? Is this a term of endearment for a baby?

The only thing that comes to my mind is "boysik" or "bojsik". There's no such word in Polish - it's a diminutive of the English word "boy" and I suppose it can be used among young people as they like to play with English words and "polonize" them.

hip-hop.pl/ustawki/projektor.php?usr=12293747955334
bojs.bloog.pl/id,5972411,title,Najlepszy-w-V-kolejce-Bojsik-to,index.html?ticaid=6baa5
boysik.wrzuta.pl
Paulina   
25 Jan 2011
Genealogy / ROMANOWSKI HISTORY [24]

Well, there was/is a noble family of this name in Poland. It originally came from Red Ruthenia (Ruś Czerwona).

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanowscy
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrzej_Romanowski_%28szlachcic%29
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomasz_Jan_Romanowski
pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filip_Romanowski

I know that they left Russian controlled Poland,

Do you know what city/town/village exactly?

whereas, my mother's parents immigrated from Austrian controlled Poland (Sarna, Cichon).

Sarna and Cichon were their surnames?
Paulina   
17 Jan 2011
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

Here the greek women refer to russian and polish ones as ho's,sluts non-stop.

Can I quote you on that?
Paulina   
16 Jan 2011
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

drank too much wine

"Naprutych winem" is more like "wasted with wine", I think ;)

Btw, it's funny though, I've just remembered that Doda sued one hip-hop singer for calling her "blachara" lol
Paulina   
16 Jan 2011
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

I am just shocked with the Doda charges, that's all.

To be honest I doubt they'll convict her, but we'll see ;)

According to this article in 2009 the prosecutor refused to start an investigation about this:

Metropolitan prosecutors accused Doda, a pop-singer from Poland, for offending religious feelings of others. The point is to identify the authors of the Bible as " naprutych wine and smoking some herbs ." The popular singer threatens it to two years in prison.

- April 30 indictment against Dorothy R. was referred to the District Court for Warsaw -Mokotów - said deputy head of the Prosecutor's Office Warsaw - Mokotów Anna Accardo . The prosecutor added that for pressing charges and the prosecution appealed the content of the opinion of experts appointed by the prosecution - a linguist and two experts ( secular and religious ) .

But Ryszard Nowak complained to the court and the court ordered the prosecutor office to start the investigation.
Paulina   
16 Jan 2011
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

I don't know - it's restricted ; )

lol ;)

Yes there is a law in Ireland but I doubt if anyone could ever get in to trouble for it..

OK, but the law exists. So Reporters Without Borders evaluate not the law but it's practical use?

What about expressing blasphemous opinions like Doda is being charged with?

It was a television interview, I think hague1cmaeron meant press articles ;)

So, I guess you SeanBM also have no idea what those restrictions of the freedom of press in Ireland could be?
Paulina   
16 Jan 2011
UK, Ireland / Polish and Irish people are related? [137]

Well if you can't express such a simple opinion, it kinda puts it into perspective.
That'd be laughed at if it had happened in today's Ireland.

But you wrote that Ireland has a blasphemy law too? Yet it's higher on the ranking. So I guess there must be something more?

Although 'The life of Brian' by Monthy Python was banned in Ireland for being blasphemous years ago.

lol I've seen it on TVP1 quite a long time ago ;)
But Poles are quite fond of Monthy Python in general, as far as I've noticed :)