News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

Where were they during your partitions...WWI....how did they treat you after WWII...and the cold war?

Poland had been burned because they relied on far away countries instead to get close to it's neighbours...a behaviour seen again today... Instead to immerse yourself into the EU, becoming an integral, essential part of it, shaping it for the best of Poland you (and Johnny) keep on blaming others for doing it. Again preferring the image of the "proud loner".

Maybe that has something to do with the polish mentality, who knows...

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


In a closer union with a common army there will be no longer "eurocrats punishing countries"....it will be the same way Washington rules over Iowa, Montana or Idaho...

Decision time!


Poland the next Iran? That's your vision for Poland?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Of course not, that's the point!

Every EU member today keeps still his own army...invests billions in it....imagine Iowa having it's own army....and Montana...and Idaho...they wouldn't stand a chance against Russia alone on their own either. But as the US they do!

It will take time to build a functional EU wide army, with all armies unified into one, and all members sharing costs and personal.

But for that you need a closer politically integration too, something many nationalists want to fight at all costs. They would rather see their countries lose alone, each for its own, than win together.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

It's an "what if" scenario! :)

If Johnny means Russia with "the enemy from the East" it's just illogically to believe Poland can handle it better alone...that never worked in the past and won't work in the future.

I personally wouldn't look to Russia as that enemy though....for me the rising rival of the future is China (also in the East). But also in this case the EU would be much stronger together than Poland or Germany or any other european country alone for itself.

That is no politics, or ideology but pure logic!


Because we still have nothing of that whats needed....yet...

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


And you fret over a new HRE? ;)

Actually if you live in that fear you should do everything in your power that Poland not only stays in the EU but that Poland works hard for unifying the EU's military, to build an EU-army.

Instead of breaking each finger on it's own that "enemy from the East" would think twice to attack that huge EU fist!

But you are lobbying for a Polexit...ensuring Poland has to face the threat alone and isolated....again! Not smart!!!

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Nope...never again! In the EU there will be no other war ever again. I'm totally sure of it.

I can't give honestly a promise for the Balkans or Ukraine or other "outskirts" of Europe, but not ever between members of the EU.

Every year the countries inside the EU interconnect and mix so much more on the economical and human levels, even if the politics often don't mirror that, that war would be totally senseless, and self-destructiv for every one. It would be like kicking ones own balls...there is just no sense in that even more.

About a world war I'm not sure...who against whom?


Today in the EU most bitching and fighting happens over desks and through the media, not through weapons.


You are repeating yourself but I'm still waiting for your explanation....why did you choose the HRE as warning?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


....or as Voltaire said so nicely:

"The Holy Roman Empire was neither holy, nor roman, nor an empire!"

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


How?


You mean soon Central- and south Europe will be split again into more than 500 tiny countries and Brussels as the main seat of power will be dissolved? :)


Which statelet will that be then?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

What makes the german empires so different to...say...the spanish ones...or the french ones...or the british ones and their ambitions?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

You should look into the "Hanse" instead maybe. The "Hanseatic League".

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanseatic_League

Now that was a german trading empire...economically extremely successful and with it also came with high german as the lingua franca...because of the wealth it brought the traders and the lands.

hanse.org/en



That would be more comparable to the EU...maybe...

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


....the foundation of the HRE was build in 800, that's nearly 1000 years of history and you bang on about the last few years?


What pattern?


Even if so, the HRE wasn't a german-only Empire...Germany wasn't even an idea for most f it's time....just look at the map.

I can't help it if you are fueled by anti-german paranoia but please leave the HRE out of it!

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

Definitely the decentralization.

In the todays german borders there are alone 7 cities which had been capitals at their times (Aachen, Magdeburg, Mainz, Cologne, Trier, Speyer and Nuremburg).

But that's only the Germans. Look at that:



That's why the HRE is a bad example to fight the EU. Not if you want to portray the EU as an opressive dictatorshipl

Actually the HRE was a good place to be, for most of the time, for most people, even Jews.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

And you dislike the HRE why exactly?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

Actually something like the HRE isn't that bad a goal...It was multi-ethnical and totally decentralized. About 500 independent statelets...flourishing, free (as these times permitted).


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire

Alot of Germany's finest traits were developed back then...

If the EU would evolve into an Europe of Regions I wouldn't be averse to that.

It's the centralistic view of the Frenchies with one powerful seat to rule them all which I don't like...

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Not now...it started in 1973.

swp-berlin.org/fileadmin/contents/products/research_papers/2017RP13_wep_EtAl.pdf


Who does it?


An Empire is historically a monarchy or an authocracy...never a democracy.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Yeah...I agree with that. That is very unlucky communicated. I remember as Austria elected once a far-right Jörg Haider. It was even tried to punish Austria for that election.

It was dumb back then and it is dumb now.

Since then Brussels has gained more experience now and/or has learned to sit out some problems and/or has just resigned. As long there is democracy politicians and govs change all the time.

PiS in a government ist not the problem!

But Poland as a country has subscribed to some plain written rules as it became a member of the EU. Without subscribing to them it would not had become a member in the first place, inclusive enjoying all the support and the advantages.

If there is a case that some of these rules are broken will now be reviewed. If that's the case there will be repercussions.

If they think they did nothing wrong they should be on the safe side, right?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Without PiS Poland could be a huge number today in Brussels...no empty slogan!

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Now that's just not true.

Before PiS Poland was well on it's way to a leading member of the EU, there was talk of a new axis...not only Berlin and Paris, But Paris-Berlin-Warsaw. Poland was the up and coming rising tiger.

Thank PiS for isolating Poland, putting it on the fringe of the EU map again! But hey, for you all these polish politicians involved in Brussels had been traitors from the start anyhow, right? All slimers, brown nosers, commies even..

But it's like in real life, also in the EU you get only back that what you put in first...many countries are more involved in all things EU today than Poland...and their voice is in consequence bigger. Even countries much smaller than Poland...

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Idealism? What for?

Leftist idealism? That we all are equal and dance together Kumbaya around a tree in some rosy future? You know as well as I do that this ideal can only ever end in a nightmare.

Authoritarian idealism? That somehow a strong leader will save us from all the headache and solve all our problems? Been there, done that..not thanks!

What idealism do you mean?

The only idealism I can accept in my position is actually the green variant! I can't stand the green party in Germany, because they are much to leftist for my taste, but to invest in and build a green tech industry to free ourselves and the planet from the yoke of the raw materials is a thing I very much support and are very much idealistic for.

So, what idealism do you think I'm lacking?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Naive?

Iron, I can compare!!!

I live in a rich country, I live a good life, and even if it wouldn't be that good anymore in the future because of a crisis or whatever I would still live better than the majority of this whole god forsaken planet.

I can be active politically without fearing a knocking in the night. I can live my individualist dreams, do what I want. I was never as free and well off as now!!!

Do you honestly think I would risk all this with sawing on the foundations of my good life?? To go back to what???

I remember and compare to the DDR...the difference to now is that everywhere else it's worse!

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


Who is they?

Poland is invited to shape the EU as every other member state ist. But of course, for that they would need to work hard diplomatically to gain support though, meaning becoming a valued and trusted member of the many commissions.

Pouting in a self made corner, threatening the unity, stomping their feet and playing the opressed victim of mean Brussels is not helping with any that. PiS only ensures that Polands voice in Brussels remains small and often enough unheard, if not ridiculed or plain ignored....

...which in turn serves of course PiS narrative of Poland the victim, oppressed by the meanies in the EU....it's a vicious circle, but information is a way out!

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


In Polands case, because of the economical connections, the Zloty would be most probably pegged to the Euro.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

What exactly will be easier for Poland using the Zloty?

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


I don't think so....all things trade will be negotiated in Brussels, as one! That's the reason for being a trade union...the reason for joining a trade union.

Trump has problems to accept that too...he always wants to talk with Germany. German insider said it was extremely difficult to explain to him how the EU works...and it is doubtful he has understood that yet seeing how he singles out Germany for economical attacks...

News / Poland's Future in the EU under PIS [51]

Chances are that Poland is then in a similiar way interconnected with the other EU countries as Germany and France are. And as the Brexit just shows it's very hard if near impossible to cut all these fine and thicker strings. People will live all over the continent by then, they will study in other EU countries, work there, make business there, will intermarry, will enjoy their pensions in the warmer south etc...

Even more than GB because Poland isn't an island with dreams of getting back to a world spanning empire, they are as core Europeans like the others in central Europe.

Off-Topic / Social Media - who uses Facebook or similar? [45]

I have no idea about face book if I'm honest. I have avoided all that like the plague from the beginning...

Off-Topic / Social Media - who uses Facebook or similar? [45]

What did you do this time Milo? Accusing someone of "german arrogance", you little meanie??? ;)

*ducks and runs*

Life / Why do Silesians hate Poland? [41]

Thanks. That were some interesting insights...

Life / Why do Silesians hate Poland? [41]


Wow! That is new...


*waves back*

I dunno why I care here in Berlin, but somehow it's nice to know that some german-silesian has survived (or is revived) and didn't die with my grandparents and their folks...

Life / Why do Silesians hate Poland? [41]


That's interesting...some german has survived in Silesia after the expulsions? Awesome. But I wonder how that happened. The german Silesians were supplanted by Poles from farther East after all..they must have brought their very own dialects and traditions with them...