Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


No $hit, brother. I didn't write anyone was.


And what "baseless personal accusations" did I make?


Nothing, obviously. What is there to be done about this? I don't live in those countries, I have no influence over what's going on in there.


No, you're wrong.
I've watched a BBC documentary not so long ago about so called "torture camps" in Sudan. People migrating for work to Saudi Arabia are travelling through Sudan and are caught by armed men and put to those torture camps. Women are raped and men are tortured until their families pay ransom to buy them out. One girl said that whatever you can imagine they do it to people there. People are burned with cigarettes, they have their eyes burned out, limbs broken, there was one guy who was paralysed from waist down - they've beaten him so badly.

You think I don't care about those tortured men? Are you going to ask me how much do I care about them; i.e. what am I doing about them too?

Sure there are people who care only about their own, both women and men. They care only about their family or only their compatriots or only their sex or only their fellow believers. I try not to be one of those people.

Foreigner4, in all honesty, I don't know such "feminists". Blocking a run for prostate cancer would be really shocking, I don't think anything like that would be possible in Poland.

Are you American, Foreigner4?


I don't know, Polonius3, maybe. But then childless people would probably whine anyway that they have to pay so other people can have children.

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]

Englishman, I just want you to know, and all others, that it's really heart-warming that there are men like you, bluesfan, Polson, sobieski, etc. etc. and I really, really appreciate what you guys were writing here.

It brings back my faith in humanity, really... lol
;)

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Yes.


I'm not writing about parity, but about equal rights and opportunities.


Sure, Polonius3, because women don't do all those easy, cushy, prestigious jobs like cleaning ladies, hotel maids, nurses, care attendants, teachers, kindergarten teachers, cashiers, factory workers :) All men would just love to work as those, right?

But just in case any man would like to work as a cleaning... erm... gentleman? or a nurse - they should not be discriminated based on their sex.


What about it? What about parental leave (fathers can take it too, you know)? What about sick leave?


Well, Polonius3, there's one thing men still can't do, unfortunately, and that's giving birth to children. It ain't our fault that it's us who have to bear the children. If the employers would start firing women who get pregnant it's possible that the birth rate would drop dramatically.

I guess one can dispute that whether the employer should bear the entire brunt of that situation, just as in case of the sick leave. I guess it's a humane solution and common sense, really. Someone has to bear children and people need money to raise them so they could work and pay for your retirement. I guess it's a kind of social agreement?

And would you oppose that if it was the woman who gave birth to the child and the father who would take care of the baby in the early stages taking the parental leave? Would that be OK with you?

Do you have kids, Polonius3?


Foreigner4, you know "a flying fcuk" about me and what I care about and what I understand.
Calm down o_O


That's really sad that you think this way. Perhaps don't judge others by yourself?
The fact that women are not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia doesn't affect my life. The fact that in regions in Afghanistan girls can't go to school doesn't affect my life. But it sure pi$$es me off. It pi$$es me off that when a woman is raped in Dubai and reports it to the police she has to provide four male Muslim witnesses of the rape (LOL!) or she will be imprisoned for illegal sex. It pi$$es me off that there are less women then there should be in India and China because of gender based abortions (women are kidnapped for "wives" in China because of that). It pi$$es me off that young girls have their clitoris removed and vagina entrance sewn (so it would be "smaller") and are sold like cattle for wives in Africa. And all kinds of other things pi$$ me off too.

So don't tell me whether I care about those women. I do. I'm that sort of person that cares, about people in general, really. Sometimes too much even, I'd say.


And what is this "male perspective"?
I've noticed that for certain men the fact that women are "different" means they are "inferior". That's what kondzior tried to prove in all his comments with his silly theories. Most of his comments in this thread are about this.


What the hell are you talking about?
I have a brother, you know? And a father. And male cousins. Anyone who would try to hurt them would have to step over my dead body first. You're delusional.

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Kondzior, as far as I can see since you've got back from suspension no posts of yours were deleted.


Ah, right, OK, sorry, I misunderstood... I actually thought you've decided to be honest about your attitude towards women.


Do you honestly think feminists never realize they were wrong about something, or are you just trying to be spiteful? :)
Since the beginning when I started reading this forum I considered Zimmy completely obsessed with women, it was almost all that he was writing about here, he seemed clearly prejudiced. Then in this thread he started to claim that he has only a problem with feminists hating men, etc. and I almost believed him and only because of that I started discussing with him. But if he shares kondzior's views, there's simply no point, I guess.


I did, indirectly. I asked him whether he agrees with kondzior's views on women. Zimmy wrote about kondzior that "Generally speaking he is correct". That pretty much settles it.


Foreigner4, show me any of my comments that would prove that :) You won't find any.
There are plenty of kondzior's comments in this thread, however, that prove my point.


lol OK...
Why do I disgust you? Because I think women and men should have equal rights and shouldn't be discriminated because of their sex? And what kondzior writes doesn't disgust you at all? Interesting...


Goofy, as always, you know everything best ;)


"Female chauvinists" :) Not "feminists" :)

You know, Foreigner4, I don't usually call or consider myself "a feminist", sure I want to have equal rights with everybody, who wouldn't want to have that. And of course I want women around the world, in Muslim countries, in Africa, in India, in China to enjoy the rights I have. I don't read any "feminist books" and I'm not aware of any "feminist leaders", I also don't go to any "feminist manifestations" (it's called "manifa" in Poland).

I'm just a woman who wants women to have equal rights and opportunities. Plenty of men want that to.
All people who want that are basically feminists.
I don't understand what's wrong with that.

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Wow... OK...
Well, at least you're honest...
A male chauvinist, but an honest one lol


Kondzior's views on women - I guess that's rather specific... We all know more or less what those views are. I compared his attitude towards women to that of a Nazi towards Jews. You want me to give specific quotes? Digging through all those piles of crap would take some time. I'm not sure if I want to waste my eyes and life on this, tbh.

How about this particular view, kondzior's gem, for the beginning - women shouldn't have the right to vote.
Do you agree?


Either that, or they, just like me, knew it would be only a waste of time...


If they are even close to what kondzior writes about women then they would sure bewilder me. Because kondzior's comments bewilder me every time (not only those about women, btw). I've never met such a sexist guy neither in real life in Poland nor on the Polish internet.


What was so profound about it?


What do you mean by "off center"?
And what this article is supposed to clear up?


Eh... What? Sorry, but I'm not a native speaker of English. Why don't you put it for me in simple English? :)
1. Do you hate women? (yes/no)
2. Do you think women have no reason? (yes/no)
3. Do you think women have no accountability? (yes/no)


Really? What do you mean by that? Any examples?


I somehow doubt that. But even if, then it would mean some feminists are as crazy as kondzior is.


Doesn't "accountability" mean "responsibility"?


Really? No, we "gals" don't know, Zimmy. I guess we live in some different worlds.
If it isn't overt, then how do you know that it's intentional?
Do you think women lack skills and that is why they "rely on their sexuality"? Or maybe they don't lack skills but for some reason choose to "rely on their sexuality"?

And what does it have to do with accountability?


No, it isn't. It's as if you wrote that it was equally reasonable to object to African-American Civil Rights Movement. Now, you might have not liked groups like the Black Panthers, but objecting to African-American Civil Rights Movement in general would mean objecting to what Martin Luther King was advocating.

Every movement has it's radicals. Racism, on the other hand, is about hate and discrimination by default. There are no good and bad racists. Do you understand?


Some feminists.
And may I add that some men act as though being born with a penis is some accomplishment in and of itself and what's more, they even claim women envy them their penises which is beyond funny (and shows how obsessed they are with their reproductive organ ;)) and that all women want their "sting" lol


LOL
That was funny, thanks, blue ;)


No, of course he doesn't hate women. He just thinks they're inferior to men :)


I can tell that you did. It shows...
But why did you hate women? (All of them? lol) And why did you stop hating them?

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Good for you, but what about my impression that you're being a hypocrite?
Do you agree with kondzior's views on women?


You mean this Jack Nicholson?:




Quotes from: dailymail.co.uk/home/moslive/article-1350653/Jack-Nicholson-I-used-feel-irresistible-women-Not-more.html

So, Zimmy, do you identify yourself with that character played by Jack Nicholson? Do you hate women and think they have no reason and accountability?

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


LOL!!!

I don't get it why you guys even discuss with kondzior, he's completely bonkers xD


You mean... like... partnership?? Be careful, Polson, such a wild, incomprehensible idea may short circuit kondzior's brain ;)

News / Polish cleaner claims sexual assault is OK in rural Poland [31]


Sorry, pawian, but even if a guy was handsome it would still be creepy.

News / Polish cleaner claims sexual assault is OK in rural Poland [31]


You must be kidding. Please, say that you are.
o_O


+10 000

News / Polish cleaner claims sexual assault is OK in rural Poland [31]


+100


No, it isn't. Magdalena is spot on.
Btw, how do you know that he comes from "Polska B"? There are villages in "Polska A" too, you know lol


I guess you can say the same thing about British peadophiles, sex tourists and perverts.


He's a pervert, so it's "normal" for him.
What isn't normal for me is the line of defence in that case. Because that was the British lawyer's idea:

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2339380/If-I-deport-What-judge-told-Polish-cleaner-groped-young-women-blamed-upbringing-homeland.html


"perhaps"

lol

No comment...

History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

I didn't write anything about "anti-Polish". Sorry, but after reading this "So the partitioning powers did Poland a favor?" I suddenly remembered all those discussions I and other Poles had with Russians and some Russians were doing just that. And since you have German roots and always defend Germany and Germans... A knee-jerk reaction on my part, I guess :)

History / History of Poland in a pill - illustrated [41]

TheOther, are you trying to find excuses for wiping a country off the map? If yes, then it's pretty lame, imho.

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Iron, sometimes you can see a discussion with a certain person on a certain topic is rather pointless.


I think I partly explained already why I think it's not so simple.


Well, they are better fit for physical work because they have different physique than women. It does matter in certain jobs just like in sports. It doesn't mean that women can't do physical work. But they can't grow as much muscles as men. I suppose there are some big, strong women who would be able to perform such work as done usually by men like, I don't know, at construction sites - if yes, then by all means (after all, women in Russia were building railroads and such).

If they'll get hired, that is.
My classmate chose a sculpting specialization when she got to a Fine Art School. School's director was trying to persuade her out of it - he claimed that being a girl she won't manage, it's a work in stone and wood, she wouldn't have the strength to work with a chisel. But she was stubborn and chose the sculpting specialization anyway. There were all boys in the group and they were giving her some hard time, they even gave her once for Saint Nicholas Day a bag full of condoms. She had tears in her eyes.

However, eventually, she was one of the best and most talented sculptors in that group.

Men have much different physique than women, but men's and women's brains aren't that different to claim that they can't do the same jobs (jobs that involve brains), in my opinion. That was my point.


Psyche and priorities can be influenced by society, the way people are brought up, etc. Especially priorities. And what do you mean by approaching problems?

You didn't answer my question - for which jobs women aren't good enough and why?


All my direct bosses in all my jobs were women (and those weren't "meant for women" jobs). In one of my jobs also a boss over my female boss was a woman. Only above that level was when the men were becoming the bosses. Why? I have no idea. Could you explain it to me, perhaps?


What if Polish parents and the society would encourage women to reach higher positions, to believe in themselves and help men understand that "women don't make worse bosses by default" and women would be given a chance? Do you think that "natural selection" would look in a different way then?


No.
They "brainwash" them so they wouldn't think that a man is a better candidate only because he's a man. I hope you understand that?


Iron, there was a time when the convention was that a woman couldn't vote, work in most of jobs and couldn't attend a university. When women writers had to have male name pseudonyms in order to get published and so people would buy and read their books.

For you, it seems, the right convention is - a woman makes a worse boss than a man. Does she also make a worse politician?


I'm not sure what you're talking about, you clearly misunderstood me.


lol
Iron, it's about women because it's the women who still are in need of emancipation around the world.


I used this phrase on purpose - because some men call demanding equal rights for women "whining about discrimination" :)


Me? No, I don't.


Zimmy, relax, I was just kidding :)))
The use of ":) ;)" was the indication that it was a joke.


"Amazing how much you 'feel' you know about me, Do tell me more about myself. Not only are you judging emotionally, but you 'assume' so much without evidence. (feelings are not evidence)"

:)

I am open to arguments and I try not to be fixed in my views. Why don't you wait until I'll write what are my issues with that film, what I agree with and what I disagree with and then we can discuss. You've attacked me even before I've managed to voice my opinion lol

Relax, and turn off that attacking mode a bit, with your attitude you're pushing people into defensive I suspect.
You have to make up your mind what you want to do here - you either want to let out your anger or convince someone. I think to do the latter it would be better to calm down a bit :)

I'll answer all the rest later, probably I'll have to do it in parts over a few days, so be patient, please :P


If it's not so bad then why men don't want to do it? :D


Then why men don't stay home and take care of the housework and kids?

You get your own money when you work. When you have your own money you aren't that dependent on your husband and when he starts drinking and beating the crap out of you you can take the kids and move out and make some life for yourself.

A job gives confidence, independence and an opportunity to meet people.
Besides, I can imagine it sucks when you have to ask your husband for money ;P


lol

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


Oh, what's the point, Iron? :) You clearly made up your mind already.


As I wrote - it was too hot and I got to go now anyway, sorry. Maybe some other time I'll write what I think.


As I wrote it's a bit more complicated than that, imho.


What jobs exactly? I think any job that involves using your brain is suited for women.


What if they are interested? Are most men interested in politics? I haven't noticed among the people I know such division. Both sexes are usually equally interested or disinterested.

As for voting for men - women can also be part of the problem, as I wrote, because that's the way society brings us up. Women can be also convinced that a man must be a better candidate because... well, "because" :) Because that's the way it's always been. I think women are more likely to don't believe in themselves in such case, because that's the way we were brought up.


Who said anything about dividing? Quite on the contrary.


I don't know what you're talking about in this sentence, tbh.

OK, those are my thoughts on the subject :)
Gotta go, see ya.

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


If you say so, Iron lol I'm sure you know everything better :)


Well, I have some issues with that film but it's too hot, so I won't bother today.


It's a bit more complicated than that.
But as I've mentioned in some previous post - I'm not for parity.


It does and it doesn't. As I wrote - my mum was the only woman on that position in her workplace (I was pretty baffled when she told me about it) and it wasn't even a very high position. The "prezesi" and "wiceprezesi" are always men, from my experience.


No.


I do too, but the sexist attitude also exists.


Iron, why are you addressing this to me? lol
I already wrote that I'm not for parity and quotas so what do you want from me?

Yes, sometimes discrimination is men's fault, sometimes it's also women's or maybe rather society's fault in general.
Why there haven't been a woman president in the entire history of USA, for example?
There are women presidents and prime ministers (chancellor Merkel comes to mind) in some other countries. I doubt there's a shortage of ambitious women in America.

I doubt a woman would make a worst job as a president than George W. Bush, for example ;D So what's the problem?
You see, it ain't that simple. Attitudes have to change too, mentality, not only law. I don't think we're quite there yet, even in the US. Maybe more so in some Western European countries?

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


lol
I thought about artistic gymnastics too! :)
Btw, I remember I've heard that a woman champion in some kind of skiing or sth wanted to compete in men's competition but I guess she wasn't allowed in the end.


I doubt that - if that was true women would be able to do quadruple jumps in figure skating, but they aren't able to perform them and men are (well, not all skaters, but still... :)).

Life / Professional feminists' of Poland meet-up [631]


No.
Why?
Because I don't know how it works and if it's fair. It would probably make positive changes happen faster (and I know that they are needed) but on the other hand Poland isn't Saudi Arabia or Iran and I guess we can get there on our own eventually. It will take longer than with parity I suppose but on the plus side men won't be whining about discrimination :) ;)


No.
Why?
Because women have different physique than men - they're usually physically weaker, have lesser muscle mass by default, etc. It wouldn't make much sense then - men would be winning all the time.

Unless in case of sports where physical strength doesn't give that much advantage as in golf, bowling, chess mentioned by Zimmy.


How do you know they are?
Btw, I wouldn't say tennis is a good example - physical strength in this sport very much matters. That's why, among others, Serena Williams has been dominating women's tennis for quite some time.


I wouldn't say that the level of game does not come close to the men's - I used to think that women's tennis is boring but I've started watching it lately and I must say it's as interesting and probably as good.


When was that? They played only one set?


The problem with high positions in Poland is that buddies (men who are already "there") hire their buddies (men), because, for example, they used to study at the university together (my personal experience, among others, a big and well known company). Or a woman is downgraded from her position that she earned by years of hard work because her new boss is a woman hater (and an idiot admittedly) - the only woman on that position in an entire workplace (my mum's experience).

So, although I don't really support any quotas and parity I can understand that women can be frustrated.


That's a silly statement. Where did she get that? Does she know anything about the beginnings of the feminism movement? Perhaps suffragists wanted the right to vote because they hated men that much? :D

Life / What do Poles really think about cats? [470]

lol
Wow, well, then it must be true if a thread on PF stated that! ;D

My grandma's cat was so old that she lost almost all her teeth before she died (of old age). I even thought at some point that it must've been two cats, because she was at my grandma's house, like, since forever lol But, no, that was one and the same cat all the time xD

I don't know what's the ratio of dog and cat owners, but I guess Russians are more fond of cats than Poles. But that's just my impression. However, I wouldn't go as far as to say that it's unusual for a Pole to like cats o_O That's absurd lol I know cat owners and there's nothing unusual about having a cat in Poland.


I like them. I like both cats and dogs.

Life / Showing respect and appreciation by Polish people, forms of greetings in Poland. [31]


I have never been asked to remove my shoes (no matter whether I was in a city or in a village) but I always do that (unless I'm dropping by just for a minute or sth). Of course, I wouldn't do that at some elegant party.

Since abu3issa is asking about showing respect to one another in different situations then I would say that in my mind taking off your shoes (or at least attempting to do that) is showing respect to the people you're visiting.

Life / What gifts to take? Presents customs in Poland. [173]


Ah well... I'll have to learn to live with that, I guess ;)


Then I suppose bringing real American marshmallows to Poland as a gift wouldn't be such a bad idea after all :)))

Life / What gifts to take? Presents customs in Poland. [173]

Huh, that's interesting. Thanks for the explanation :)
And what is the difference in taste? Those that can be bought in Poland are sweeter or maybe taste of something else? Sorry for being so inquisitive but I'm curious and I won't probably have a chance to find out by myself :)

Life / What gifts to take? Presents customs in Poland. [173]


Really? I didn't know that lol So what's the difference?

Maybe they should sell them in Europe as vomit-flavoured sweets then, like in Harry Potter lol
But they can't be worse than Japanese sweets I've tasted (some kind of jelly thingies) - I don't think I've ever eaten anything more horrible lol


Oh dear... lol

Life / What gifts to take? Presents customs in Poland. [173]


+1


Roasting marshmallows - yes, that's something Poles don't usually do ;) But you can buy marshmallows in Poland so that wouldn't be a very unique gift, I guess.

However, some American brand of sweets that isn't available in Poland/Europe would be nice.


Whaaaaat... Why "like vomit"? I've heard they're tasty... *disappointed* lol

Life / Don't Forget: Tomorrow, March 8 is Women's Day in Poland! [140]


You know, when I read this I thought "I bet she's from the South" and guess what? Bingo! lol Knoxville, Tennessee :)
(Sorry, guys, I didn't want to interrupt your "a pat on the back" conversation, I just wanted to share this fun fact :D)

Travel / Things to do in KROSCIENKO [7]

It's mountains, Gandalf! lol
So... Hiking, climbing, mountain biking, enjoying nature... And probably something like this:


No idea, I've never been there. There can be billiards in some bars and hotels, I imagine.

Krościenko in Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kro%C5%9Bcienko_nad_Dunajcem

Life / Don't Forget: Tomorrow, March 8 is Women's Day in Poland! [140]


Oh God xDDD
And this 21st century, people!
This man (noun) is (verb) stupid (adjective) :)


I wonder, do you live in a basement and don't go out? lol


You mean like those savage men in patriarchal India who gang rape women because those men live by the whims of their instincts? I wonder if they think in abstractions and can read "between the lines" lol


Are you kidding? You obviously don't know Polish history or women at all.


lol
Do you think only women can be liberal? Or that there are no conservative women? What planet do you live on? lol


lol
Ha, the mistery has been solved - now we know how men have been able to preserve their brains untouched - they only read comics :)


Indeed! And I've been able to detect it! How is that possible? Amazing...

Life / Don't Forget: Tomorrow, March 8 is Women's Day in Poland! [140]


I will elaborate what's my problem with Zimmy some other day (I hope lol).

In Poland we would observe Woman's Day and Boy's Day (Dzień Chłopaka) at school. Boys would give girls presents on March 8 and girls would give boys presents on 30th September:

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzie%C5%84_Ch%C5%82opaka
It looks like it's still done:

zso6.kielce.edu.pl/dzien-chlopaka.htm

But we didn't celebrate Woman's Day and Boy's Day (or Men's Day) at high school anymore nor at the university or at work.


I think we are all aware that women and men are different. That's not the point. The point is - women are different, but not worse.


Hmmmmm, I don't know... When I brake my nail first I cut it so it would be even, then I usually cut the rest of my nails so they would be the same length and then I think what I should do to avoid it happening next time and I would probably also wonder: "Hmm, maybe I should eat more vitamins?" lol

Does this mean I'm a man? :O


Oh, let us not stop at Voltaire (after all he lived in 18th century). Herbert Spencer, an English philosopher, biologist and sociologist of the Victorian era, believed that female evolution, meaning intellectual evolution, had stopped at a stage before man's in order to preserve vital organs for childbirth. If a woman undertook rigorous 'brain work' such as mathematics, energy could be diverted from her reproductive system, threatening fertility and general wellbeing.

I also remember reading about a British MP, I think, who thought that studying at university would damage women's brains ^__^


I wonder what Zimmy, Ironside and Grzegorz think about what kondzior wrote... Do you guys agree?

History / Neon style in Cold War Poland [23]

Thanks, Harry, quite interesting.

Life / Don't Forget: Tomorrow, March 8 is Women's Day in Poland! [140]


What do you mean?
Btw, men don't have to worry so much about their looks, they're not as scrutinized in this respect as women are. You have it easier.


Oh, come on, don't tell me men are as interested in fashion as women lol Some women even buy clothes for their men because they won't bother.


Not in Poland.


Of course it does. In Polish TV commercials of laundry detergents, dishwashing liquids there are always women and if there's a man then he's usually there to inform the 'silly' women that they were buying the wrong thing lol When there's some kind of an ad for children it's always the mum giving the cough syrup, etc. The same with products connected to cooking at home. When there's a commercial of body lotion for women it looks like some kind of soft prn with her whole naked body being shown lol


+1
And my mum was literally the only woman on this specific position in the place she works (and this place is big) and she often did a lot of overtime and she's always "on request" when she's needed. In Poland women usually work fulltime (you wouldn't be able to support a family in Poland from just one average salary) AND take care of the kids AND often do the cooking AND the cleaning AND the laundry and washing dishes AND the everyday shopping.

There's no affirmative action, noone is getting heat from governmental bodies for not hiring women or whatever.
As for the domestic violence - lol, oh boy. There's no comparison. I don't know, maybe a husband can get slapped or have plates thrown at him, but a woman (and a child) can end up severely beaten or beaten to death by your drunk husband or in a coma - just recent examples:

On the body of a woman living in Poland there was found a lot of damage , they were both external injuries and internal . The immediate cause of death was a brain hematoma , which was formed after receiving strong blows . Currently, the detainee interrogation man. Robert O. charged with fatal beating .

Of course, not all is bad (for example, my dad cooks too, does the vacuuming, washes the dishes, does the shopping and when I was a baby he even washed the diapers - women in the countryside were in shock and awe when my mum told them about it lol). It's not as good as in the West or in the US I can imagine, but I'm sure that it's way better than, for example, in Arab countries.

And things are probably getting better (I hope).

But, ZIMMY, you should really, really take a trip outside of the US (at least mentally). The world doesn't end on the United States of America.

Btw, if you know Polish then here are some interesting observations of a Polish couple living in Singapore about the situation of women (and men too) both in Singapore and Poland:

(Quite surprising at times!)

Life / Which animals are native to Poland? [103]


At some point they even stopped hunting them and special "foresters" were appointed to take care of aurochs and protect them from poachers, the peasants were forbidden to cut grass and let their cows graze where aurochs were grazing.