History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]


Well, have you heard about the annual Taizé European ecumenical meetings for young adults? I was told by an Italian guy when I was on one in Hamburg that Poles are always the most numerous group (and those meetings are really big). Maybe young Russians should try those :)

You now, John Paul II was putting quite strong emphasis on ecumenism and maybe quite many Poles my age and younger were influenced by that. I guess I'm one of that "JPII generation".


What makes you think that?


I don't know, I haven't discussed with Ukrainians, only with Russians. What I meant was that Poles have lots of sympathy for Ukrainians nowadays, despite the fact they aren't Catholic and Russians and Ukrainians seem to hate each other despite the fact they're Orthodox.


Well, as I wrote before it is "a" factor, but I wouldn't say it's a strong one.


You mean that Poles are fixated on the fact that Russians are Othodox? I must say I haven't noticed anything of this kind and I live in a very traditional, religious region of Poland (it's called the Holy Cross Province, so you can imagine :)) Authorities in my city put Ukrainian flags together with Polish ones on street lamps all the way across the main promenade in my city during the Ukraine crisis to show solidarity with the Ukraine nation. Noone seems to care that Ukrainians are Othodox :)

If you've discussed with Poles who were fixated on the fact that Russians are Orthodox, then I don't know, maybe they were right-wingers or sth?

As for the Russian "obsession" with that distinction then I suspect there may be two reasons for that. For Russians, it seems, Catholicism is a Western invention and yet another sign of "Polish betrayal" or sth, I guess :))

Another reason may be the fact that Orthodox nations are mainly constricted to one rather closed region of Europe and they are usually Slavic nations, while there are more different Catholic nations around the world and for us it's more universal and maybe that's why we don't think that it's so important whether given nation is Catholic or not.

According to CBOS polls Czechs and Slovaks are Poles' most favourite nations. Czechs are always on the first place despite the fact that they're one of the most atheistic nations in the world. Norwegians are, according to the latest poll, for some reason, on the 7th place although they're Lutherans.

I have an impression that even from the Russian perspective it's not really about religion, to be honest. What, for example, religion has to do with being "bigger brother"?

Btw, Romania is an Orthodox country - do you feel like you have a warmer attitude towards Romanians than, I don't know, to Poles or Finns or Hungarians?


Oh come on. I wouldn't go that far.

History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]


Well, I'm religious and I agree with Wulkan.


Not really... o_O :) Of course it is a factor to some extent since Poles seem to be often more fond of Catholic nations, because they have some things in common with them. But generally people here are pretty oblivious to other Christian denominations and they don't care. I would say that Russians I've discussed with are far more fixated on the fact that Poles are Catholics and are "ruled by Vatican" etc. :) They seem to have a problem with the fact that Poles are Catholics and not the other way around...

Btw, Ukrainians aren't exactly Catholics either, are they... :)
Religion isn't the problem here...

Po polsku / Ruscy sieją propagandę na polskich portalach? [29]

Nie pamiętam, może i Neewsweek. No i?

Po polsku / Ruscy sieją propagandę na polskich portalach? [29]

Gregy741, jedna polska gazeta zrobiła małe "śledztwo". Ponieważ zwróciło ich uwagę nagłe pojawienie się dużej ilości proputinowskich komentarzy dotarli do adresów IP tych komentujących, którzy twierdzili, że są Polakami i mieszkają w Polsce. Okazało się że adresy IP znajdują się w różnych miejscach na świecie, tylko nie w Polsce :)

Pewien Polak mieszkający od lat w Niemczech zauważył że zdarza się, że dokładnie te same komentarze, o identycznej treści, z tymi samymi błędami pojawiały się pod różnymi nickami pod niemieckimi artykułami. Ja też widziałam takie śmieszne rzeczy pod polskimi artykułami. To jest sztuczne tworzenie "tłumu", sprawianie wrażenia, że "dużo ludzi popiera Rosję."

Po polsku / Ruscy sieją propagandę na polskich portalach? [29]


Wszyscy zauważyli :) Przedziwny, nienaturalny wręcz wysyp prorosyjskich komentarzy. Ponoć to samo dzieje się pod niemieckimi artykułami - piszący też robią błędy w języku niemieckim. To jest po prostu zmasowana akcja propagandowa do której Rosja jest bardzo dobrze przygotowana.

Ale to nie tylko rosyjskie trolle wolontariusze (którzy często trafiają do polskich artykułów chyba dlatego, że są one tłumaczone na pewnym rosyjskim portalu i forum) i ci opłacani, pewnie jest też garstka sierot po Endecji co to nienawidzą Tuska, PO, UE i im Putin imponuje. Znam takiego jednego, więc takie cuda też są możliwe. No i oczywiście proputinowscy Rosjanie mieszkający w Polsce.

Love / Questions about Polish Men - flirting, cheating, liking? [44]


No, Harry. That's a fact that foreigners (from richer countries) do attract a certain type of women (or men) in poorer countries, gold-diggers among them. Of course I'm not saying that only such women get interested in foreigners (from richer countries).

But maybe my comment was too general, not precise enough. I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else.


No, I'm not. Remember where I live Harry and that it may be a bit different here than in Warsaw. And I'm sharing my personal observations - I'm not saying I hold a key to the whole truth about everything :) According to the survey in that article I linked to my voivodeship, świętokrzyskie, is the most faithful voivodeship in Poland lol :)


Harry, I'm not basing it only on what my friends tell me (and you have no idea what I'm like when I'm with my friends) but general observation of people in different situations (in my region mainly, though).


What's the point of this comment of yours?
I wrote what I know and what I've observed, Harry.

As far as I remember, someone suggested on this thread that Polish people have some kind of "different values" as far as cheating is concerned than, I don't know who, the British? The rest of the world?

Do you agree with this, Harry?
Polish people are so different than the rest?

Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]


Wlodzimierz, I don't think the sarcastic comment you wrote to JanMovie was justified.
Pam is right - he didn't claim his English is perfect.


I didn't see TheOther being so sarcastic towards you as you were towards JanMovie...
If you wanted to draw JanMovie's attention to his errors, you could do it in a nice way. There was no reason to be nasty.

That's my opinion.

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]


Well, I would call it modesty.


I'm sorry, Ziemowit, but it's you who must have a "superiority complex" if you thought that such basic things had to be explained to people here.


What's wrong, Ziemowit? Is it getting on your nerves? :)
Because that's what Wlodzimierz is doing in almost every language thread on this forum. Do you realise that?


Nope, I'm writing about it only in this thread :) And only because Wlodzimierz doubted my ability in discerning whether someone is speaking English with an accent or not and whether I can say if someone is saying "w" or "v" when speaking English lol

So I wanted him to realise that there are other people beside him who maybe have some gift of pronouncing and hearing things right :)


What am I obsessing over exactly? :D


lol
That's what I'm talking about :) You seem quite full of yourself.
My English writing will always be "mediocre" in comparisment to that of the native speakers.
However, I can see a difference between your style of writing and of all the native speakers of English on this forum.
For someone it may be "literate with words well chosen", for others it may be pretentious and irritating - I don't really care about that.

All I'm saying is - considering that your writing style isn't typical for many native speakers of English, it's simply unfair on your part to judge the style of non-native speakers of English so harshly and call it "primitive".


Why thank you, kind sir, you're simply too gracious lol

Listen, Wlodzimierz, I think you're an OK person in general, there are worse people than you on this forum lol, I have no grudge against you. It's just that obsession of yours and your attitude is irritating. I think you should, as we say in Poland, "spuścić trochę z tonu" and maybe even people will start talking to you in their native languages ;)

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


I'm not sure about that.

And what differences do you have in mind?


I was just making fun of your chauvinism :)


JFK?

Really?
He had a nice smile and that's pretty much all...
We had better looking politicians. For example, "Piękny Marian" lol - Marian Krzaklewski:


And when he was older:

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]


That's what you say, I don't really know if that's really the case.
Which universities are you comparing exactly?
Or are you writing only about language schools?

Btw, if it's true I can imagine it's due to the fact that English is a lingua franca of our times. It is taught everywhere to really great numbers of people and so really great numbers of teachers are needed and so the level is lower. I think it's natural and has nothing to do with double standards. If the French language was the language of global communication nowadays I can imagine it would be butchered in the same way all over the world :)


Whom are you talking about?
University professors or language school instructors?
Or people in the street?

Even my Polish teachers at highschool had very good pronunciation. I had only one dreadful "teacher" at the very beginning of highschool. We called her "Mrs. Sheep" lol The school didn't have English teachers, I think, at that time, so our librarian did a quick English teaching course and became our English teacher. She would pronounce word comfortable as "komfortejbyl" ;O Even at that time I knew it was very very wrong xD The funny thing was that I was getting worse marks for pronouncing words in the right way ;D That was terrible... But later on, we got real teachers, she went back to the library and such a level for a teacher would be simply unacceptable nowadays in a public school, I can imagine.

As for Anglo-American culture it's even in the language course books so it's obligatory to teach at least the basics (at least at state schools in Poland). And it's the same with teaching other foreign languages at state schools in Poland. And, again, Anglo-American cultures are rather well known in the world.

As for "communicating on a most primitive level"... Your own style in English is so unnecessarily elaborate (or maybe even pretentious) that I I'm not really sure if you're being objective about the level of communicating of your interlocutors. I wouldn't be surprised if you exaggerated, to be honest.


I really doubt that anyone ever told you that you don't need to spend time studying Polish or any other language. Most Poles appreciate the fact that a foreigner makes the effort to study their language.

However, if your Polish isn't good enough to communicate easily then they may switch to Polish to make the communication easier in their mind for both you and them. They may even think that they're doing you a favour. Or they just want to practice their English.

If you want to practice your Polish with them then simply tell them about it.

And no, the word "obsessing" isn't overused in your case at all, since you complain about foreigners not wanting to talk to you in their native languages in every freaking language thread on this forum.


What do you mean by "aesthetic and modest"?


I'm sorry, Wlodzimierz, but I don't understand this sentence.


It's natural that people have accents when speaking a foreign language. Not everyone has "a good ear" for langauges. Some students, taught by the same teacher, may speak with heavy accents while others from the same class can have a very good pronunciation and only just a light accent or in rare cases none at all. Not all people are skilled in the same way. I was one of two people in my class, I think, who could get the French "r" more or less correct. My first efforts at getting it right caused giggling from my classmates, but later on they were praising my French pronunciation ;) So it's not so easy, you know.

Also, I don't understand why would you expect from foreigners any knowledge about English opera? o_O The fact that you're interested in opera doesn't mean that all people are. English is a lingua franca, people study it for the sake of communication and they aren't obliged to know about some rather not well known elements of British culture. When you're studying English, you're studying it to communicate with people from many parts of the world, not necessarily with the British or Americans (or Canadians, Australians, etc.).


Hope for what?
Not everyone is obliged or has the need to speak English or any other foreign language on a native-speaker level.
It depends on the circumstances.
Also, not everyone has good enough language skills or opportunities to be able to do that in the first place.

I had a British teacher at a language school here in Poland who purposefully used with us some kind of non-accented English (without the British accent). I also had a Scottish teacher once and he was trying to do the same, although we did have some problems with understanding him and getting used to his a bit different pronunciation.

Yes, Wlodzimierz, times have changed. English is used by people all over the world and perhaps the accent with which someone is speaking doesn't matter that much nowadays.


*switch to English

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


Yes, I had to, since I wasn't sure what you're talking about - your comment was rather minimalistic... Sorry if explaining it to me was such a great trouble...


Jawohl, Herr jon357!

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


Um... What?
You'd have to elaborate, jon357, this one sentence is way to cryptic for me... lol


What does "doll up" mean?

Zimmy, looks are important to some extent at any workplace and everybody is trying to look good, both men and women. Probably for most women that means also wearing make-up, for others - it doesn't. Or they just prefer to sleep longer before work instead of getting up early to look "perfect" (that would be me lol).

And yes, it's natural for many women, it's like putting on your blouse or sweater - it's like an element of everyday attire, a second skin. Some women (like my friend) don't like to get out of their house without make-up on, no matter where they go, because they feel "ugly" then (and my friend is pretty, but you won't convince her otherwise...).

I'm not sure what "knocking it" means, but if it means "criticizing" then probably you're doing it, as always when women are concerned.


Well, it doesn't look like that. Your politicians seem to care a lot about how they look, how they dress, about their image, etc.

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


I'm not sure what you're talking about. Politicians are working in the public eye and are expected to at least try to look good. Both men and women.

I don't know what it's like in the US, but in Poland for a female politician, someone working in the media, etc. wearing make-up is rather a must.

Law / I have an Israeli Driving License. What do I have to do to get a Polish driving license? [19]

Maybe this link will be useful:
info-migrator.pl/us-5-poland__general_information-17-driving_licence.htm

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]

That's good, śmiech to zdrowie :) ;)

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


Maybe Englishman should join PiS lol: Eeewww... ;/

Btw, Englishman, PiS tried to attract voters with women's looks in 2011 but it seems this strategy failed:

Myth 3 : Beauty is very helpful in applying for a mandate . Another myth election , that the election can be rebutted . The falsehood of this assertion convinced the famous " angels Kaczynski " .

UK, Ireland / Agnieszka Pomaska, beautiful Polish politician [43]


I think you could save such comments for your male friends when at the pub.


Or the other way around - maybe she looks better in the flesh than in the photos (it happens!).
Either way - she isn't stunning at all.
And it shouldn't matter, I think.


o_O
Even if the photo is a good one, he definitely doesn't look like a Hollywood film star. He's very average and he often looks sickly, both in photos and on TV.

Not that it matters. I don't care about the looks of politicians.


So you're saying that Western people look terrible both in photos and in the flesh? lol


I agree.

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]


Of course some people are like that, in every nation.
But I agree with bluesfan that most Poles don't boast about their "great English" at all. Even on this forum there were foreigners writing how irritating it was when Polish girls constantly apologised for their bad English.


Again, of course, but criticizing is one thing, and obsessing is a completely different matter and that's what Wlodzimierz is doing - he's obsessing (he's writing about it in every language thread - I'm not joking).

Also, what gets on my nerves is that he accuses others of what he's doing himself.
And what I found simply appalling is the fact that Wlodzimierz was giving wrong answers to people asking Polish language questions on this forum!
My English is much better than his Polish and yet I wouldn't dare to answer English language questions. Wlodzmierz didn't even bother to check the spelling in some online dictionary - that's just mind-blowing for me.

To put it short - he posed as an expert, who knows what he's doing, while he wasn't an expert at all and was "merrily butchering" the Polish language, as he puts it. He isn't even a teacher of Polish.


Well, that's great, Ziemowit, that's called "life". Not everybody can be born an English native speaker, we know that... o_O


+1


Wlodzimierz, at what age have you started studying Polish on regular basis?


What on Earth are you talking about? What "double standard"?


Then give us money, genius, and we'll be hiring native speakers with great teaching skills right and left at every freaking university and village school :)

What on Earth are you talking about?
You think that French is taught at Polish schools by French native speakers educated at Sorbone? lol


Indeed lol
Spot on, Magda.


+1

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]


Wlodzimierz, you make basic mistakes in spelling and grammar in Polish.
I don't know about other countries, but in Poland people who make such mistakes in English don't teach English at universities (from my own experience).


No, you're not.
People studying Polish were coming to this forum and asking "How should this be written?", etc. and you were giving them wrong answers without even warning them that you aren't a native speaker and that those answers you're giving them may be incorrect! I don't even know how someone can be so irresponsible and arrogant!


What are you talking about, Wlodzimierz? Your behaviour on this forum is some kind of revenge?

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]

Your conviction how great your Polish is, for example ;) You were giving all kinds of wrong advice and explanations on this forum to people studying Polish and I had to correct you (other people were doing that too).

You do like to lecture, Wlodzimierz, but I think you should learn more first :P
(That's a friendly advice, btw, I think it's cool that you're studying or were studying Polish :))

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]

It wouldn't hurt if you'd listen to other people, for a change, Wlodzimierz :)


No, it doesn't. It puts people off. Especially when soemone is as obsessive as you are and can't acknowledge his flaws or mistakes.

But I see it isn't getting anywhere, so I guess we should end this exchange or we'll get on mods' nerves :)

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]

Wlodzimierz, I'm saying that you could do well with some self-criticism and a change of attitude yourself. Otherwise you'll just get on people's nerves instead of helping them (if helping others is what you think you're doing or want to be doing).

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]


What for? Are there many Polish native speakers where you live?


Noone is required to know about "Pan Tadeusz" or Gilbert & Sullivan to talk with someone in Polish or English.
Also, all Poles know about Shakespeare. So, if you want to compare "Pan Tadeusz" with something you would have to compare it with "Hamlet", for example (such is the rank, significance of "Pan Tadusz" to Poles). Gilbert & Sullivan is a niche knowledge for most people on this planet, I suspect.


"Pan Tadeusz"

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]

It should worry you, not me...

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]

Btw, when I write about my RP, I don't mean that it's perfect British RP. I was told by a teacher once that my pronunciation is really good, that I sound like the British queen lol (I was watching a lot of BBC World those days) After this I decided to change it, because I didn't want to sound ridiculous and too posh or sth. So I watered it down.

What I mean is that when I say "furthermore", "perfect", "therefore", etc. I say it in the British way, not American way - I'm sure you know what I mean :)


But you live in the US, right? Why did you decide to learn Polish (if you don't mind me asking)?

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]


It seems everyone does that, except from you. Poles, for example, are often very self-critical about their English to the point of being ashamed to speak it. So, again, I don't understand what's your problem.


I haven't wrote that someone who isn't immersed in foreign languages doesn't want to speak them well.
I just have a problem with your attitude.

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]


RP, of course. That's what I was taught at school.


I know I make mistakes, grammar has been always my Achilles' heel whenever I've studied a foreign language, I have serious problems with English Tenses, for example. I hate them lol :)

Life / Do Poles have a problem understanding American English? [76]

Wlodzimierz, I don't understand what's your problem.
For people who aren't immersed in the foreign language by living in a foreign country watching films (or foreign TV in general) is the only way to listen to some everyday language, to practice listening comprehension, enrich their vocabulary in a fun way.

I'm sorry, Wlodzimierz, but you rant and rant all the time how English learners do everything wrong. It's irritating and it makes you look like you're obsessed. Relax.

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]

Wlodzimierz, most Polish people have an accent, of course. Sometimes it can hurt your ears :) Some people, who are good at languages, don't have a Polish accent and if those people live in the UK (like my friend) they sound like British people.

However, I disagree with the "w=v" part.
I think I'd notice if most Poles would speak English like Count Dracula ;) Maybe some tiny minority. I even doubt that most Russians speak that way (although I don't really know).

I must admit that I don't really trust your judgment, I hope you don't feel offended :P
I'd prefer if some other native speakers wrote something on this subject. I'm sure there's plenty of English teachers here.
What are your observations, guys? Do Poles say "v" instead of "w"?


No, I wasn't lol This "w=ł" rule is easy to remember, and you hear "what" all the time in the movies.

First of all, I'm not a liar, thank you very much.
Maybe one day I'll buy some kind of microphone, record myslef and send it to you, if you don't believe me that I don't have a particular Polish accent :)

And I don't have an American accent. I think my English is pretty much accentless, although I do tend to pronounce some words in a British way and other in a American way, so it's a bit of a mess :))

Language / Extremely Hard - Polish the hardest language to learn [226]

Wlodzimierz, first of all, we're not talking about me, but about Polish people and how they pronounce "w" in English.
But if you want to talk about me, then I have "a good ear" in general (for music) and for languages too and pronunciation is usually my favourite part when studying languages :)

I can tell when someone speaks with an accent and I can hear when someone says "v" instead of "w", that's really not a big deal :)

And if you're curious, I don't speak with a Polish accent. You probably could tell that I'm neither British nor American, judging by my pronunciation, or that I'm not a native speaker, because sometimes I may mispronounce usually a word I don't know, but I doubt you could tell where I'm from.

So, people who aren't native speakers of English can also tell whether someone is speaking with an accent when using English or not. You don't have to be a native speaker of English to do that :)


Well, so I'm asking what this "(miss-)pronoucning" of "w" looked like exactly?
Was it like ""Vere is my vife, I vant her to have a vok vith me in de park"? :)
Every single "w" was mispronounced?


What are you talking about? What Anglophone dialect comedy?