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Posts by Paulina  

Joined: 31 Jan 2008 / Female ♀
Warnings: 1 - Q
Last Post: 30 Oct 2024
Threads: Total: 16 / Live: 10 / Archived: 6
Posts: Total: 4338 / Live: 3329 / Archived: 1009
From: Poland
Speaks Polish?: yes

Displayed posts: 3339 / page 111 of 112
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Paulina   
20 Aug 2010
History / Polish civilization is older than English or French. Why do Poland follow them? [64]

and stating that the murderous roman empire which enslaved the world and even murdered whole people for his own gain is hold up as "civilization" whereas their enemies and victims are sold to us as "barbarians".

Yeah, you tell him, BB! ;) I think this is one of few moments when I can identify myself with Germans:
youtube.com/watch?v=d39FBRxBM8k
;D
Paulina   
20 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Yet present day Germans are blamed over and over again on this forum for what happened 75 years ago.

Not by me :)

Ender, I'll answer you tomorrow, I hope.
Paulina   
20 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Learn from mother of friend ask her details ask her about her opinion.

My mom isn't from Kielce and she wasn't born yet at that time :)
As I wrote before, mother of my university professor witnessed what happened. He told us during the classes what she saw (of course, he should be teaching us instead but I'm glad he told us about this).

check Yad Vashem stories like this

I watched a documentary not so long ago on TVN about a Jew living in Israel who wanted to get his Polish citizenship back and he said that he was saved by a Polish family somewhere near Jedwabne, I think.

and for God sake START THINKING.

I am :)

Ender, do you live in Poland?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

scale, premeditation, and soviet state apparatus

But the denial machanism is the same. People don't want to be viewed as monsters.

on the other hand if we assume than some polish elements did it ......

It is known that Poles did this, even if we assume that it was inspired in any way by the communist authorities or the Soviets. It was carried out by inhabitants of Kielce. Even some policemen were arrested for doing nothing to stop the killing.

there was criminal or deranged element demoralised by war

Probably, but I'm afraid not only.

and a few victims.

Eh... 37 innocent people isn't "a few victims".

I don't feel responsible for that at all.

And you don't have to, I think. We (me and you) didn't do this. It happened over half of a century ago.
But we have to face the fact that it happened (and that there was anti-semitism in Poland). I think Jews want us to admit that, and that it was wrong, that killing those people was a horrible crime and it shouldn't happen again. I know I would like to hear that from Russians about the Katyń massacre.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

I don't think the comparison is right, you should know it yourself...

Why not? Both for Poles and Russians it's difficult to come to terms with what happened and both nations have a communist past (and it was 50 years of propaganda for Poles nad 70 years for Russians).

It may be different in this way that Polish officers were killed by a selected group of people and it was done due to a secret order of Stalin. And the Jews were killed by ordinary Poles, people from the same city :/
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

kiss the ass would be appropriate now...

You know, Ironside, I know a Russian who is a member of Memoriał
( pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoria%C5%82_%28stowarzyszenie%29 )
and dug the bones of Polish officers killed by NKVD, created a blog about Katyń where he puts information and evidence concerning the massacre and is discussing it with Russians and trying to convince them on the internet that NKVD did it. And you know how some Russians call this? Kissing the ass of Poles :)

The same is with one Russian woman from Moscow and I've learned a lot from her (but probably not enough).

I'm not kissing anyone's ass. I just try to explain some things and find out something for myself too.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

"yes, it was us. We did it and we are deeply ashamed of it that we have done so."

But I didn't kill anyone :P
;)

(I've learned this from Russians ;D)

So, maybe it should be like this: "yes, it was the Poles. Poles did it and we are deeply ashamed of it that are compatriots have done so."

Paulina (just wondering if this version would be acceptable ;))
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

That it was them who committed the Pogrom in Kielce. Besides you and a few others on here, the usual suspects all deny it.

Well, for most normal people in Poland it's pretty obvious that Poles did it, I think. And there is a memorial plaque at 7 Planty Street and a monument nearby (not very impressive though, I must admit :/) uncovered during an aniversary of the pogrom (it was transmitted live by Polish TV) and on this occasion there was a concert in an open-air theater of Jewish kantors from Israel which I attended with my mom (there were a lot of people, whole families with children) so I guess we're getting there slowly...

And admitting that one's history might not be as glorious as one always has thought it was, is the first step to accepting that it was just that, which in turn means coming to terms with it, which in turn means letting the past go and move forward instead of remaining in the past.

I agree.
But after 50 years of hibernation facing the truth is painful and we're probably still in the stage of digesting it all...
It's not pleasant to know that your compatriots killed their neighbours out of some irrational prejudices, so people try to rationalise it or blame it on somebody else or deny it.

And, I think, some Poles are afraid to admit what was done in the past because they think that also present-day Poles will be labeled as some monsters who have anti-semitism in their genes.

I can see sometimes the same fear in some Russians blaming the Nazis for the Katyń massacre. It seems they don't believe that Russians could do such a thing. And probably they don't want to.

I've noticed the same about Turks denying Armenian genocide. They don't want to be viewed by the world as monsters.
Of course, people who deny such things or try to blame it on others choose the wrong way, they just make the world believe they didn't change. But it's sometimes difficult to explain this to them :)

Well, I guess the best way is to educate people in a calm and not agressive manner.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

One day the Poles will admit

Admit what?

and then the road lies open for acceptance.

What acceptance?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Well, it was a period of widespread violence against Jews with of course the culmination in the Kielce incident. Most of them in Eastern Poland, however, there was violence in Western Poland too and in Krakow, which doesn't really lie in Eastern Poland.

Yes, Kraków is in the South and was in the Austrian partition. Well, as I wrote - it's just a theory ;) Maybe Russian partition had some influence, maybe it was because it was the poorest partition and least developed, I don't know.

It's not like, of course, Russians invented anti-semitism and it came from Russia to Poland :)

Paulina, ender is an anti semite, not covertly but openly. He even proclaimed himself to be proud of it. I mean stupid is as stupid does, but to be actually proud of it, takes the biscuit :)

I was just curious if by writing "Kosher Zeitung" he meant "Gazeta Wyborcza" :) Because I gave a link to an article in gazeta.pl and this newspaper is called by people with radical right-wing views (those who are anti-semites at least) as "Jewish", "communist", "anti-Polish" and stuff like that ;)

I said nothing like that, and it didn't.

I meant that there were pogroms before and Jews were killed.

Easy Terran was saying that the Poles were only puppets in Ruskie's hands.

What do you mean by that? A crowd of ordinary people killed the Jews. The police did almost nothing to stop this. Do you have any evidence to prove it wasn't the case?

Important date, important meating (July, Nurymberg... do I have to draw a picture here???)

And what about other pogroms in history of Poland? How would you explain them?
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

For those interested - I found this:
niniwa2.cba.pl/lato_sasiedzkich_pogromow.htm

Next, place - why Kielce not other town left in good state ? Where the independent forces were strongest at the time, where national movement were strong as well ? ?

Well, there's this theory that anti-semitism grew stronger because of the Russian partition and Kielce was in Russia during the partitions. But I don't know if that was really the case... One would have to check in which regions of Poland pogroms were most common, I guess.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

WHO was Polish ?

Those who did the killing.

Ask why in the pre-war Poland with so many Jews and tension, nothing like that ever happened ?

Um... But it happened...
historia.gazeta.pl/historia/1,99553,6653228,Pogromy_Zydow_w_Polsce.html

Secondly, timing of that event was nicely set to make Poles look like German accomplices in the eyes of the world.

Again, it's just another theory, no proof. The communist authorities claimed that the pogrom was inspired by the anticommunist underground, a provocation done by the government in exile and carried out by the soldiers of Anders wearing false NKVD uniforms LOL Do you buy that? ;D

Next, place - why Kielce not other town left in good state ? Where the independent forces were strongest at the time, where national movement were strong as well ? ?

Maybe in poor regions prejudices thrive more easily? I don't know.

They tought me Katyń was done by Germans.

I had my history classes in the 90's. I think 20 years was enough to discover the truth, as with Katyń.

I would be careful with mongrels like MG (Мабович Ґольда)

I would be careful with calling people mongrels...
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

and that differs from the fact - how?

In the way that you are taught about this at history classes in school? :D
;)

Was she Jewish ?

No, she wasn't.

I-S ( well, I don't know enough about it yet, I have some reasonable and sensible doubts about it)

What doubts? The only doubts could consider whether the pogrom was inspired in some way by the communist authorities or/and the Soviets but that's just a theory and I think it's a wishful thinking and, still, communist authorities were Polish, not from Mars. It was carried out by Poles. I wish it wasn't, but it was...
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

But then again, the Kielce pogrom was originally meant as an example of incident - direct consequences and later reverberations - it was an illustration, unfortunately there were some that didn't understand this and now we're talking the whole godgiven time about Kielce.

Well, I'm used to this ;)
Even for some Poles in other parts of Poland Kielce have this stigma of anti-semitism because of the pogrom in 1946.

I'm sure that you were present at the time of the invent and knew some who did it!

Ironside, it's a historic fact, you know? Do you even live in Poland? o_O
Mother of my university professor was a witness of what happened at that time.
Paulina   
19 Aug 2010
History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

myth A: the Jews were commies, a myth that apparently still lives today, remarkably;
(...)
myth D: Jews welcomed the Soviets (especially a popular myth in Eastern Poland - only partly true but represented as whole nations of Jews were welcoming the Russian troops) and:
myth E: the most remarkable myth of all: Jews helped round up Poles for the slaughter.

MareGaea, you're so sure that in those myths there's no grain of truth?
Of course, I'm not saying that all Jews were communists, but considering the discrimination of Jews, they had their reasons to become communists, to welcome the Soviets and take revenge on Poles.

I'm sure communist idealogy could appeal to some Jews as it promoted, at least in theory, equality of all people. Race, nationality - it wasn't important for communists.

It also appealed more to peasants and workers than, for example, nobility.
The Soviets defeated the Nazis who wanted to kill all the Jews so it would be natural to welcome the Soviets. Some Poles welcomed them too, at the beginning.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Jews helped round up Poles for the slaughter". You mean NKVD? Well, I've seen some Russian graphs which show that Jews consisted a large group in NKVD, maybe even a majority (I don't remember) only at the beginning, in the early years of NKVD. Later it consisted mainly of Russians. I don't know any figures but I've also read that it's a myth that Polish SB consisted mainly of Jews.

You prove exactly that it was indeed Poles who performed the Kielce pogrom.

Of course Poles did it. Who else? Martians? ;) It's a proven fact and I don't think you need Easy_Terran to prove you this.

You do know that with this statement you actually admit that Poles parttook in the killing of Jews in Kielce, do you?

I think that, surprisingly, he did that consciously ;)

Well it didn't come from Poland, and i've never heard that stuff in Poland.

The pogrom in Kielce was sparked off by a rumor that a boy was kidnapped by Jews and held in a cellar in order to be used in a ritual killing.

But that's the only case I've heard about as far as this "blood libel" is concerned. I guess it's more of the medieval times. I don't know if it was popular in the 20th century.

No one is trying to convince you of anything, we know better than to try and change the morons mind, pointing out the facts, that’s what that is.

The fact is that pogrom in Kielce was carried out by Poles. There's no doubt about it. I was born and live in Kielce so I know better than any of you LOL
Paulina   
10 Jun 2010
History / Why Poles love Russia [105]

I think it's a love-hate relationship

So very true!

Aren't you a Russian by any chance?

LOL And I, after reading Wiedzmin_fan's comment quoted above, thought he must be Polish ;)))
Paulina   
8 May 2010
History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]

Me neither, however one can sometimes make a good use of it

Yes, I know what you mean.
But I guess some people can change their ways when they realise that their behaviour is wrong and not accepted by others ;)

Then "dobro pozhalovat" (welcome). :)

Thanks :)

Yet it seems like you read Russian forums, blogs dedicated to Poland. Would be great if you could share your perspectives on what you pick up from there.

Um... What exactly do you have in mind? ;) Because on the internet you pick up a lot of stuff, both good and bad. One could write a book about it, I guess ;) In short, I got to know Russians better, I think (in fact, before I didn't know them at all :)), or, at least, some of them. And Poles. And myself :)

And I've noticed that we all just want to get along, but somehow it's not that easy ;)

However, lately I can see a light on the horizon :) Some hope. A wind of change coming from the Russian authorities, especially president Medvedev. Or at least it looks like it ;)

And on the 9th of May I'm going to kindle a light of my own at the Soviet cemetery in my city :)
Paulina   
7 May 2010
History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]

WE ALL WANT TO!!!

;D

Anti-Polish buah? Hhahahahaha that's a good one Sasha anti-Polish lalalala funny
That's like calling me Germanophob lol

OK, I get it, I get it :)))
But it wasn't me who called him anti-Polish so take it easy ;)
Paulina   
5 May 2010
History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]

Pay attention to the date of this post

LOL Right, I didn't notice it ;))) I'm still "new" to this forum and didn't read it much ;)

and the general atmosphere of the discussion with Mac. :) We'd been at odds first time. :))

OK, I can see now that McCoy first wrote "you ruskas".
I just don't like when people use derogatory terms for nationalities, even in the heat of discussion.
Paulina   
5 May 2010
History / History of Poland in 10 minutes. Really worth seeing! [134]

Yes please. :) It's interesting for me which of my words might be read as "racist" and "anti-polish".

Well...:

the most educated pshek ever

"Pshek" can be used as derogatory term ;)

But I don't think Sasha is anti-polish :)

I didn't know it was only Polish-Lithuanian army that won the Grunvald battle. :))) Something new for me...

Not only, there were also Rusini, Czesi, Mołdawianie, Tatarzy, but I guess Polish-Lithuanian army were the main forces. Those who took part in the battle:

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwa_pod_Grunwaldem#Uczestnicy

I WANT TO SEE THAT "MOVIE"!!!!

Me too :)))
Paulina   
28 Apr 2010
News / RUSSIA TO MAKE PUBLIC THE KATYN FILES... [274]

Do you consider it's a measure? If so, then measure to what?

Well, is a Mayor of Moscow with his plans to honour Stalin with posters in the city during the 9th of may the same as some anonymous, marginalized neonazi in Berlin...?

The second one is more creepy, for sure, but the first one is more important...
Paulina   
25 Mar 2010
Language / Is the term 'Polak' derogatory?? [254]

Having a slang word for a Pole which origins from the original description of a Pole isn't really that offensive

Well, that depends, really.
For example, a slang word for a Russian in Polish is "Rusek/Ruski". Adjective for anything Russian is "ruski". It of course originates from Russian language in which "ruskij" means "a Russian" or adjective "Russian".

But most Russians usually find it offensive. And often they are right to do so. It sounds even worse if it's about a woman ("Ruska"). Of course, many people in Poland probably got used to this word to such an extent that they don't realise it can be viewed as derogatory. Some russophiles also can use this word but in a positive way, to show affection.

I guess it depends on intenstions.

Another example - a derogatory term for a Chinese man in Polish is "Kitajec". "Kitajec" is a normal, official Russian word for a Chinese :)

So, you have to be careful with words :)

In general, I think, those Poles in Poland who know that Polish people in the US are called Pollacks, wouldn't want to be called this way.

As for German words "Polacke" and "Polacken" (at least in case of a German saying them) I would advise to use them only among Polish friends if this person knows they won't feel offended.

IMHO :)

What is the correct word to call Polish people...????

As far as I know in English language it's "a Pole" (singular) and "Poles/Polish people" (plural) :)
Paulina   
21 Mar 2010
Language / Do Poles prefer US American or UK English language? [147]

anyone from the NY area can see the brooklyn accent is pretty off. i'd say that was the weakest one she did.

I don't know English accents that well, but I've noticed the French accent was also rather weak - she just said some words in French and I didn't hear that typical French "r" ;)
Paulina   
21 Mar 2010
Language / Do Poles prefer US American or UK English language? [147]

Well, 'I've started so I'll finish' is a famous line from Mastermind in GB :)

Sounds reasonable :)

Co złego, to nie ja. I like it. It reminds me of this, some classic AmE in a Bronx accent,... quite funny. A song for the mohair berets.

;D