History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Maybe they had been Germans all the time! :)

I stay by my opinion...folks in these lands have been so heavily mixed over the centuries we are the same. Scratch a German and you find a Pole and vice versa!

*bows out*

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Sounds good to me...

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


Nah...you can't hold down an unwilling people forever. It was a do or don't situation...I believe the Prussians knew that.

With hindsight there was no way that such a strong developed sense of self, with such a long history, being an Empire once themselves, would just dissolve into another nation just like that. There would be always resistance and a yearning for their own souvereignity again.

I compare that abit with the Ukraine today...

A Pole by himself, purposely immigrating to Germany, is something else but a whole country, against its will. That couldn't end peacefully.

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


I don't want to go into a pissing contest, foreign occupation sucks every time.

But maybe we can agree that Prussia was not the most successful country of that time for nothing...they brought abit (unwanted I agree) of that to Poland...



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Partition#Economy

Better education plus a gov that supports the economy, the industrialization, agricultural development and you get a better developed region. That's not rocket science.

What I found interesting is that a big part of the actual population was there implanted after the war from the more rural, backwards east polish region and now they vote differently than the people in their former home.

Or maybe there had been more former Prussian-Poles left than thought...

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

Nah...Spikey said that the prussian partition became wealthier and better developed because the Poles fighted the Germans.

And not because of that:

"...From the economic perspective, the territories of the Prussian Partition were the most developed, thanks to the overall policies of the government.[7] The German government supported efficient farming, industry, financial institutions and transport.[7]"....

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Partition#Economy

That implies that the Poles in the russian and austro-hungarian partitions enjoyed their life and freedoms instead...THAT is fascinating! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]


So....the russian partition and the austro-hungarian partition was no cause for a reaction?

Please help me to understand...that is fascinating! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So...does that mean Poles need oppression to be successful? If they are enjoying freedom then they stop working? :)

Very interesting! :)

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So, you mean the russian and austro-hungarian partitions lacked the Germans? That's why they stayed poorer and less developed because the Russians and Austro-Hungarians weren't as hated as much?

History / Heritage of partitions still present in Poland [107]

So...the ex-german parts of Poland are not only wealthier but the people living there are more not east-polish? :)

I find that astounding, I learned that after the expellations of the Germans the lands in now-west Poland had been re-settled with Poles who where expelled from now-ukrainian lands..meaning ex-east-Poles...

One could think that there wouldn't be such a clear cut difference..

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

Okay...a simple question:

Do you think a Poland led by nationalists like Spike would be good for Poland in the long run?

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

...."so much suffering", not all of it!

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


I think, since nationalism has been responsible for so much suffering in the last century yes, there needs to be a differentiation.

Otherwise you leave it to the lefties who want to do away with any pride in country and people full stop.

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

He calls himself nationalist...

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


I differ....you are a proud Pole without hating me and my country Germany...for me you are a patriot, like me. We both want whats best for our countries, and we would like to achieve that together....and have a beer afterwards.

But someone like Spike for example can't help hating me and my country and would love for Poland to fight Germany again, for him both countries are not equal, Poland is so much better and Germany just sucks, the Germans (all 80 million of them) suck, he is a bonafide nationalist. He would end all cooperation rather today than tomorrow.

There lies the difference, an important difference, it's just not the same!

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]

Nationalism has gotten a bad rep, because of history...but deservedly so.

That's why there is the alternative of patriotism. I can be proud of my country and want the best for it without hating another one and want that to suffer....

History / Polish attitudes towards ex-Soviet republics joining NATO [116]


Why?

Can't you be proud of your country without denigrating and fighting others?

Patriots can work together with other patriots to the best advantage of all, nationalists can't and won't....it's always "Us vs Them".

News / Years of Poland in the EU - assessment of pros and cons [1199]


How so?

Because as I see it...the EU will only then break apart when all it's member states are taken over by nationalists.

Now I would want to see trade negotiations between a bunch of hostile nationalist governments....then it's back to the old pecking order, the bigger ones trampling down on the smaller ones, who have to take what is being offered. (Not really negotiations between equals).

That's my opinion, you must have a different outlook or you wouldn't follow that path and wish for it to come true. So please, explain it to me...

Where do you see Poland?

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


Do you remember how Greece looked like before the EU membership? They used donkeys on dusty streets...till 1974 they were ruled by a military junta ffs.

Without the EU and the EURO they would still look like this! They don't need anybody to be corrupt and a failed state.

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


*nods and follows Dolno into the next pub*

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

He is a nationalist, like you! :)

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

Wessis make jokes like that about us Ossis too, you know.....

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


Isn't that what the Single Market is for? :)

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


What do you mean with "it doesn't exist"?

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

The so called "Prussian trust" and the west german Vertriebenenverbund was actually a big feared thing back then in Poland. Hence the urge to get that treaty about the Oder-Neisse-Border officially done...I remember weakly...

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

Everybody who supports such claims supports also populists, they are fattening their numbers. Keeping old grievances with their neighbours alive with purpose has only nationalist reasons and is only supported by people who would love to throw every unity which has been achieved in the last decades happily under the next bus.

I'm suprised to find you in their corner Jon...

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


It has all to do with the reparations....Poland didn't put a claim up then and now its to late. This conference in 1990 was the time and place to do it, the polish government wanted the Oder-Neisse-Border secured and they got it.

There was no other demand and then it was settled for good. THAT was the polish-german treaty which cleared the last questions. Money wasn't part of it. Done!

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]

But I did that already...

un.org/Depts/los/LEGISLATIONANDTREATIES/PDFFILES/TREATIES/DEU-POL1990CF.PDF

PS: Poland never lodged any formally demand, even as they bring it up again and again, and my guess is they never will....it's useless...it's all only hot air for people like you!

Again show me your seriousness and ask Moscow for reparations...for their own and a share of the german ones...

Till then, I will file it under dishonest and hypocritical, so forget about it!

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


Love you too Iron, but that "jabbing" really happens only in these forums where some can't help themselves and bring this topic regularly back on the table.

Internationally nobody jabs (beside eye rolls and head shakes and some groans inbetween)

1953 reparations were decided. 1990 was the day all rest demands was talked over and were decided...Poland got its Oder-Neiße-Border, Greece didn't show up and that was that then...

A few years later Poland (not having any open disputes anymore with other EU members) became member of the EU and the rest is history.

Nobody could have someone like K. many years later on the radar...but there is really no way for him and his friends to breath any life in that dead horse...it is dead and stays dead!

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


There is, in the accession protocol....."no running conflicts with neighbours" :)

News / Petition for War Crimes Reparations for Poland [126]


So we are all lucky in that regard! :)

But I'm fairly sure would you become elected prez of Poland you would very soon learn that nothing is that easy as it first sounds. In consequence you would have to bin most of your election promises/threats immediately after taking office and coming round to the thinking that maybe having good relationships with Germany is not a bad thing at all...happens all the time! :)