News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Why now?

It seems Poland does alot to keep it that way purposely...the WWII is never far from the polish mind...the Pole of today must be always stay alert...against an over mighty Germany and the big russian bear, isn't that so Iron?

Where should the sympathy or interest come from with such a mindset?

PS: I bet I was the first German you ever had a long(er) standing contact and talks with...usually your knowledge of Germany comes from history teachings, am I right?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


So...no Beethoven or Wagner fans in Poland? No Goethe? Kant? etc. :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I'm sure that if Germany would have any more soft power alot of Poles on PF would complain about a "take over"....

The same way parents all over Europe complain about their kids preferring english language, english songs, english movies, english fashion...at the same time "forgetting" or purposely ignoring about old national traditions etc....:)

Just imagine the polish/german teenagers running around in Nike's, with the jeans hanging down to the knees, listening to that black rapper, speaking some kind of ghetto-slang and believing themselves to be sooo cool...

Is that this "soft power" you mean?

Thing is the Brits don't have their culture and their language for their own anymore...in every country it gets bastardized and mixed and changes....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Maybe a question of definition....people decide with their feet, they always have...and in that regard the direction of Poles is clear....it doesn't have to be about beer or Beethoven...they have come for centuries, still come, settle, learn German, work and live here...immigrate/assimilate...give birth to a new generation of GerPoles... or only stay for awhile...

I don't know exactly what you actually mean...so, be a grump! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

....and that average polish person is you! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Do you really think you can speak for all of them?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

...maybe interesting for this thread....

The first new year baby was born in Frankfurt...at 0.02. a little Jakub....son of polish parents Michal and Izabella...
He is in the running for Germany's fastest baby! :)

bild.de/regional/frankfurt/frankfurt-aktuell/frankfurt-geboren-um-0-02-uhr-herzlich-willkommen-kleiner-jakub-67028874.bild.html

The reality of the EU flies full in the face of all these quite theoretical visions....

Happy Birthday! :)

PS: Iron, the parents want to build a house there....I'm sure little Jakub will grow up fully appreciating what Germany has to offer! ;)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Like the british army does in Britain?

"....There is a long history of soldiers being used to put down civil unrest or subdue public disorder on home soil. This has sometimes been very unpopular, especially when soldiers have turned their weapons on civilians...."

nam.ac.uk/explore/civil-enforcement

Like actually EVERY army if they are needed?

PS: They should help with terror attacks, securing big events and helping out in the case of natural disasters too...oh and fighting against any outside agression of course...

Oh wait...since the EU is a Gulag you expect them to be our jailers, right? Riiiiiight!


You know that Poles have a history of flocking to Germany for centuries? Hell, every second Berliner has a "ski" in his name...half of the Ruhr population is of polish heritage...

How can you ignore all that???

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Yeah....and still no Bundeswehr in Warsaw to force them...we are such pussies!!!!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


It's hard....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


"Central organs"! :)

Next you will say the EU does state-directed command-economy....

You are like Spike, just the other side of the coin!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


That's why I'm asking you! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Not the wealth in Germany...that was lost after WWII and in the GDR even longer...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I think Neo-liberalism belongs to the globalist era...which startet at full thrusters after the end of the communist system. Capitalism won and had no rivals anymore. Nothing to keep it in check.

That comes to an end now, the anti-globalist movements are gaining strength and with that, so I believe, the social focus will come back stronger again...globalism should no longer prefer the rich, the industry or the liberal, well off urban elites.

The EU reflects all these tendencies....she is the sum of it's members....if the majority is following neo-liberal policies so is the EU...should a more protectionist, social movements get stronger, the EU will mirror that too...

What irks me is when people so lightly speak of the EU as some kind of dark overlord, some foreign, alien master....who alone decides and opresses and forces and what not, totally ignoring that it's the member states and it's democratically elected envoys who are making these policies in Brussels...not without bitching and fighting and negotiating and networking and all what comes with that daily political business...

Especially in an organization where every member has the same vote. Which makes the voice of an 80 million people like net payer Germany as exactly as important as the one of tiny Malta....


How would you define the positives? Not gaining money from the EU instead of paying into the common pot?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


There is alot to criticize about the EU...especially it's Euro policies....agreed!

Somehow it get's surreal when one side blames the EU for being extremely capitalist/neo-liberal and the other sides sees a socialist dictatorship aka Gulag coming right up...

She can't do it right it seems! :)


Do you mean by that "as long it stay a net receiver"? Should Poland leave when it's economically able to become a "net payer"?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


OF COURSE!

Otherwise you are talking about foggy conspiration theories....everybody and their grandmom has them...but that is nothing REAL!

Not the best base for politics btw...


You know, "wealth" is not something that springs first to mind thinking about a "socialist paradise!

I wonder what these "local national awakenings" are truly after if it's not the wealth and the freedoms of modern Europe...I wonder why you wish this to die...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Which "local devils" do you mean exactly?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


You know that "social media" is an US thing? Google...Facebook...Twitter....Insta....what about that is EU?

Okay...the Chinese are coming up...with their TikTok....and they are known to censor their internet quite heavily...Russia is developing their own "state net" too, that they can cut off at will if they want to...

Again, what about "social media" is owned and controlled be the EU?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Why not call it Konzentrationslager? Why not Auschwitz?

It's all the same crap!

You know criticism is alright and often enough justified and necessary...but with those comparisons you only shoot yourself in the foot. Who should take you seriously after THAT?

After all it IS a fact that you can criticize and spout crap about the EU as much as you want...there will still be no Gulag or a mighty Secret Service knocking at your door deep in the night for you, you won't be kidnapped or jailed or murdered for what you say...think about that for a second!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

....it is referred also to a lawless system to imprison political opponents (or what the mighty leader thought them to be), to a system of work till you drop, starvation, mass murder...

Really?

Off-Topic / An average brain weight by ethnicity/nation [36]

Yeah...to gauge the IQ by brain weight is a new one! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

You know what a Gulag is?

Off-Topic / An average brain weight by ethnicity/nation [36]

A link?


Japanese are tiny...

Theoretically if you go by average height and weight the Dutch should lead this list!

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Gulag? Seriously?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Not the Brexit arguments again....

And Britain had alot more going for it...being a net payer!

Just for your information:

"....From the perspective of the EU, the treaties contain largely the same content as the EEA treaties, making Switzerland a virtual member of the EEA. Most EU law applies universally throughout the EU, the EEA and Switzerland, providing most of the conditions of the free movement of people, goods, services and capital that apply to the member states. Switzerland pays into the EU budget...."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

"...In 2008 Norway's contribution was €188 million. Throughout the programme period 2007-2013, the Norwegian contribution will increase substantially in parallel with the development of the EU programme budget, from €130 million in 2007 to €290 million in 2013. For the EEA and Norway Grants from 2004 to 2009, Norway provided almost €1.3 billion.[9][10]..."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93European_Union_relations

They both pay dearly for all of it, after all being a member has it's privileges! Being "out" is just not the same...

Again....move out....and then buy your way back into the Single Market (after complicated and forever taking trade negotiations) but now without any vote at all and of course no more support funds...go on! Let's see how big the appetite for shooting itself in the foot is in the polish population!

Good luck!

PS: I'm not sure such a thoroughly capitalist success like the Single Market can be seen as something "leftist" at all....

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

@Miloslaw
How?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Well...big parts of the EU support funds (BILLIONS!) are being german money...it's the EU net payer who fill the pot net taker are taking out from. Germany IS sharing it's wealth with you already since Poland has become a member.

Do you think Poland should take some refugees for that?

But scratch that, you are totally right...they would eh all try to move into Germany the moment they can...

*wanders off disgruntled*

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I don't see that actually....

Poland doesn't want to take part to help refugees and they don't have to...so the polish gov is very well able to adress their voter concerns. That other countries shouldering the burden don't look favourable to the solidarity ditchers is another point...

Merkel seems to be dead set on Nordstream 2, having Germany's energy needs (voter concern) in her view. That Poland and others don't look favourably at this business with Russia is another point...

Remember the planned constitution of the EU a few years back? Voters in France and Holland (if I remember correctly) voted it down and that was that, there is still no constitution for the EU.

Brussel isn't from Mars, all these people working there, steering and controlling the EU are being send by their member states, and of course they have their voters at home in mind all the time...it works as well as the govs at home, sometimes good, sometimes not so good...but that is no foreign overlord.

Do you have an example when voter concerns at home can't be adressed because of the EU structures?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Interesting....the EU pours money into Poland but somehow still manages to milk Poland?

Not naive then but totally genius! :)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

That sounds like it will be the fault of the Poles that the EU sinks, because they have milked the EU dry...

It doesn't sound as if the EU is a bad thing, only terrible naive! Why all this hate?