News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


East Germans have always big fans of the US Army in Germany, believe me! They would even had wished for their occupation zone a bit bigger..

And bevor Trump there was Obama...a true love story with the Germans...and I can remember Clinton playing his saxophon at the Brandenburger Tor! And who could forget cold war hero Reagan or Kennedy and his famous speech in Berlin...

That the EU is working now on it's own defence is a reaction of Trump wanting to go it "alone" and becoming hostile to the EU....but he will be gone after another 4 years at most...so..

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


You mean till you, with the help of a real big power shovel, dig out the whole of Poland and transport it to somewhere else with nicer neighbours? ;)

...and why are we all up now at this ungodly hour???

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


So...Poland is no longer the defender of Europe but the mole?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


The traditional China got drowned in rivers of blood....

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Erm...honest question here.....what do you think China is about????

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Then why don't you treat it as the treasure it is?

Your...our....ancestors have already hunted through it...our people and nations have been born and are grown in it's shadows....it's as much part of our european soul as famous stones and bricks!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


No...that's not the point!

I repeat: you begrudge that the EU want Poland to take better care of that treasure in it's borders as it belongs to our all heritage! And yes, that is an interference, but a toothless one, as there is no army being able to guard these old trees from destruction. An interference which should not be needed in the first place at all!

And at the same time you prefer the chinese rule because they don't give a sh'it about Europe and it's heritages!

Of course they would not say a word if Poland would raze that forest down tomorrow....but that doesn't make them friends of Poland or truly interested in the well being of Europe, quite the contrary!

THAT IS MY POINT!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


That primeval forest has been there long before the polish nation came into existence...your borders encompassing it are totally accidentally...

You begrudge the EU that it cares about such an important european heritage and prefer the Chinese who don't give a sh'it!

I could understand that point of view better if you wouldn't at the same time be famous on this board for lamenting the downfall of european culture, of the soul of Europe itself, all the time.

It doesn't add up...either you are a proud European and because of that prefer the european culture and respect it's history and with that of course want to preserve it's unique and ancient heritages....or you don't!

How you can support the destruction of such an age old heritage and also an agressive, powerful, far away empire who sees Europe only as a rival it want's to best and subdue and at the same time blaming poor, hapless immigrants for the destruction of Europe is absolutely mind boggling!

No muslim Ali can do to Europe what you polish tree logger and chinese Xi are trying to do!

What the f*uck is wrong with you???

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


If you destroy one of the last ancient heritages in Europe you should really shut upt about the newly build mosques in european cities...it's nothing else, even worse.

No ISIS dschihadist bomber can do to Europe what you are just supporting!

Nobody can rebuild a primeval forest, when it's gone it's gone!


Well....maybe you will be become China's newest province when you lick their boots only shiny enough...


Then what is your problem? You like commies...you prefer to be dictated...but why does it have to be the Chinese?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

I would really like to say something like: "Okay...then leave and peg your future to the communists in Peking instead to work together with your european brethren to the best of Europe, we will see how that will pan out for you!"

But frankly I like and respect Poland to much for that...it would be like watching a deadly car crash with indifference or worse, cheering the driver on!

PS: Nobody should have to tell Poland to not log their primeval forest, a unique and ancient european heritage. And no, of couse the Chinese won't care about that....but you should!!!

For all that you constantly talk about threatenend Europe by foreigners you really don't give a sh'it, don't you...

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Sure...I can see it....Poland says and does what it pleases and Peking only nods smiling to that! The totally equal partner with the totally same voting rights! :)

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


PS: Instead to live in the past and fearing the resurgence of old Prussia you should really look further to the East for the new danger.

And now tell me, who would stand a better chance against this chinese communist economic juggernaut? A European Union? Or Poland alone (or Germany alone for that matter)?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


You forget East Germany and the freeze of decades behind the Iron Curtain...we all met the modern world in 1989 and found out our industries weren't competitive anymore...you can't blame the EU for that!

And China is overtaking Germany with their cheap mass production...Germany too lost alot of jobs and companies to cheap and cheaper Asia. The famous german automobile industry took heavy blows in the recent years...add to hat the phasing out of fossiles and the structural changes had already be enormous and will continue to do so...also for Germany. Our future as industrial powerhouse is in no way secured or granted!

We all have to reinvent ourselves...the EU isn't to blame for any of it, but it can help!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


....it could even be said that Poland fully integrated in the EU (also the contrary to what Spike wants) would be much more successful in building alliances, in furthering their causes...playing the diplomatic high game of back rubs (when I rub your back you will rub mine)...networking, influencing...

Meaning Poland could develop into a power player, becoming part of the "core" itself, now that Britain left a gap.

The reasons Spike wants the EU destroyed for for would vanish...Poland could make the EU work for it....but only as fully committed and smart member.

Hmmm....what an interesting conundrum! :)


Now that was a bad example....

There is deindustrialization because of the globalization (jobs and firms leave for cheaper places) and because of modernization (phasing out of coal) and happened everywhere.

Alot of EU funds go into these regions hit worst because of this "Strukturwandel" (structural change), as we Germans call it...just think about the once famous german steel and coal region, the Ruhr Area.

These regions have to rebuild itself now that their main industries are gone, that's happening everywhere.

What in the hell makes you think Poland would master these difficult changes better without the billions of EU funds???

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


What self-defense? The fight against the billions of EU funds and the access to the biggest world market with a gazillion of potential customers for polish products?

The brave resistance against the refugees Poland had been forced to take? How many by now?

And how is your alliance building with other conservative EU members coming along? You would need them anyhow after the EU is dead and gone....

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

That's why I want Poland outside of the EU structures because I firmly believe that our country can flourish in a competitive open and global market of free exchange of goods and services.

Okay....I believe you. You want the best for Poland! That's a totally worthy goal...

In the end Poles have to decide about that...not me!

But you should stop wanting to destroy the whole EU in the process...because for alot of countries the membership in the EU is the best for their nations. Wanting to destroy it for so many others only to better your own nation is sh'itty and you should not expect any sympathy for that!

Anyhow I believe the EU is to big to fail....it is in need of reforms and probably always will, but these also can only be made with the tempo the many disagreeing members allow.

Because it's NOT a dictatorial super state with a strong (german) Führer!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


No, of course not! Poland could leave and lose the whole power it gets from having the same voting power like...say...Germany or France. I very much doubt Poland would be as influential outside of the EU as inside...

And for the "suboptimal results" only Poland is responsible for them. And frankly, if you can't make it in the EU you won't make it anywhere!

But it is as even you admit...you need a union of some kind to have any form of influence. But your vision of a union is fully compatible with your own political leaning and ideas and values (and only yours) and hence is a dead birth. Also in this new union you will be forced to make compromises...and it isn't set in stone that Poland will be it's top dog either.

This new union of yours only smells of roses because it's a fantasy...the actual existing EU on the other hand is the dirty nitty real smelly thing...it won't get any better!

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Poland can try to help to build this federation right now (like Germany is preferring a decentralized federation to a centralist super state).

There is no guarantee that the newly build EU will be to your tastes either! Because it's build on compromises, all (okay without the left and right extremists) political leanings need to find a common ground.

When you always stomp with your feet and threaten to leave when things don't go your way you won't be happy in any union whatsoever...

Your best course of action would be to take what you already have (a firm seat at the same table with everybody else) and try to make the EU work for you! You won't get a better chance to do that than from the inside.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Yeah....but how exactly?

In a union consisting of 27 so widely different members there will always be discussions and disagreements...but I don't see the end of it.

Maybe the end of the EURO as it is now (and the EURO has definitely serveral flaws which need a make over)....but the EURO isn't the EU and otherwise the EU is like the UEFA or the IOC or even the European Broadcasting Union (think Eurovision Song Contest)....everybody grumbles and gripes about, but being part of it is better than being out of it (even after getting zero points for all your hard work and money, heh:).

Sure there may be this country or another which will leave for one political reason or another but I really don't see the whole of the EU "end" as you seem to wish, especially as the queue of interested new members is still much longer. I might maybe believe it when I see UEFA or the IOC getting razed to the ground.

But even when that happens...countries will sit together afterwards and build another UEFA or EU, this time better than before...they will at least try!

There are really very few countries who don't need nor want unions to support each other...most of them you don't want to have in your union either!

I think that the process of erosion and deconstruction of the EU could be steered in desired direction of voluntary economic cooperation between nation states of Europe.

That's what the EU is for! :)

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


I wonder how that would come to pass....

Will there be a session by the commission who all parties declare to part ways at an agreed set date??? :)

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Astounding, isn't it? As nothing did more to polarize the Germans than what happened in 2015, it changed the whole country and it's political landscape.

But back then everybody really was happy with Merkel's decision? No disagreements? What was wrong with them?

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


It isn't considered legal either, hence my olive branch...


Sure it was....and with hindsight Merkel had better!

But of course when the outcome is in doubt or could even be unfavourable things like parliaments or plebiscites are no longer signs of a working democracy but rather frowned upon...people could vote "wrong"!


Yes it was...she decided as she "felt" like it...alone! Heeding no advise or doubts or warnings....asking nobody....like a dictator.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]


Erm...maybe we can compromise on "law status unclear"?

welt.de/politik/deutschland/article168900336/Gutachten-sieht-unklare-Rechtsgrundlage-fuer-Grenzoeffnung.html

But I didn't like it so I personally see it as unlawful, as it was made in dictatorial fashion without asking the parliament!


I agree...be it PESCO or FRONTEX....all these organizations played till now a rather weak role because of a strong NATO...that changes already.

News / Poles say a big YES to our European Union [996]

....To the consternation of the German and EU establishments, the court made up its own mind on whether the ECB had acted lawfully under EU law, and decided it had not. ....

spiked-online.com/2020/05/08/germany-has-dealt-a-blow-to-the-eu/

Ooooh what a ruckuss that made...

But I don't think it will have real repercussions....after all the opening of the borders in 2015 wasn't lawful either and I don't see Merkel going to jail anytime soon.

News / Hundreds Protest Against Lockdown at Polish-German Border [8]

No, it won't....many of these people will lose their jobs for good...little companies will stay closed, even after the worst is over...it's a catastrophe for this developing region.

It would be nice if afterwards Poland and Germany would butt in together to help this region especially...a common fund or something...

News / Hundreds Protest Against Lockdown at Polish-German Border [8]

That's the german position on this (only in german):

berliner-zeitung.de/wirtschaft-verantwortung/warschau-prueft-lockerungen-li.82208

Just some infos....after stats from the german Chamber of Industry and Commerce (IHK) about 25.000 people are directly concerned by this border closing between Germany and Poland...commuters who live and work in both countries. This border region developed in the recent years to a "joint economic area".

Brandenburg and Saxony decided to support the commuters financially when they decide to stay on the german side of the border....there is criticism against the polish gov, it's said they "overshoot the mark"!


Till Corona we were a digital third world country....now home office and digital schooling has become a topic...maybe if the right consequences will be drawn we will now start to close the gap and invest more in such stuff...also online teaching. But right now it's not really an alternative...especially not long term and especially not for the poor families...not every kid has a computer with internet at home!

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]


Then how do you explain the greed for the Euro-membership in these "poor" countries?

I tell you why, a financial union with Germany offers these countries money to the same terms as Germany!

A country like Greece could never dream of getting so easy so much money.....because investors trust Germany. They trust it's government and it's economical policies....that makes new credits cheap. Greece for itself would get fresh money only much harder and much less to much higher interests, because investors don't trust it on it's own at all.

But now, in a financial union with Germany, Greece can borrow to it's hearts content, as the investors know it's being underfunded by Germany.

Hell, before the Euro-membership Greece used still donkeys on their dusty roads! Their main export had been cheap laborers.

Greece had all the possibilites in the world to do something worthwhile with all the money it suddenly got access to...that it ended like it did you can't blame on Germany but on stupid greek governmental decisions...totally democratic of course.

Imagine Berlin balking at that, forcing better, more sound, economical decisions from Athens....can you imagine the outcry? "Nazis" would had been the very least of them!

So, what do you blame Germany for exactly?

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]

You keep repeating that, but when we discuss it I can always refute your arguments, even pinpoint mistakes and plain prejudices. Still you don't change your opinion in the slightest. You won't even try to see both sides!

I guess it's not really about economical facts with you....

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]

....you always do! :(