News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]


What "service economy"? Their mainstay had been shipping, with one if not the biggest flotillas in Europe if not the world!


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_shipping

They don't have a service economy...whom would they serve? With what? Decades of bad economical decisions and a near non-existent bureaucracy led to them having barely any economy at all by now.


Oh please, not that bad old Krugman argument again!

Ever been on a real market? There you see stands besides stands and even more stands who all sell produce and fruits and what not...it's about quality and prices which gives customers the choice as it should be in a free market world. And mostly all stands earn their money!

It's not Germany's fault that Greece has been unable to come up with a say...dishwasher rivaling what Germany or Japan could put up in it's market stand. Just becauce Germany produces a dishwasher doesn't mean Greece can't do either! If it would be as good (or better) Greece would earn lotsa money, even when Germany also sells it's dishwasher!

And just think about the US...50 states in a real union....some states excell in dishwasher, some in produce...still, they have the same economical government and laws and oversight...and it works!


Is this something inborn in Southerners? Or what? Please explain, I can't follow you!

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]

Update:

The european wide "Kurzarbeitergeld" project has the name: "SURE".

It is meant for Italy, Spain and all by the Corona crisis especially hard hit EU members...

spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/corona-krise-eu-kommission-plant-europaeisches-kurzarbeitermodell-a-051a513e-8a5d-4ed6-8d38-133223767c38

Knowing that now I googled for "SURE" and found that:


ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/qanda_20_572

Lotsa info in there...in English! :)


Now let's hope that they do so....swiftly!

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]


...or as they say, the Euro was a vision by politicians...not enough economical experts. It had alot of "birth defects"!


Why not? No change of progress and betterment? Are they cursed to be like that forever?

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]



I agree with both actually! Especially if it's your own gov!

But that's not what you are talking about....you think Greece and now Italy, aren't you. And to force ANOTHER FAR AWAY COUNTRY to "prime the pump" for a foreign country is a totally different kind of fish.

You just can't just use these economical laws 1:1 in such a situation. Just one example...the greek pensioners had a higher pension than german seniors. To ask the poorer german pensioners to "prime the pump" for the richer greek pensioners is just inhuman!

To work like that...to use Blyth 1:1 the greek, italian, spanish and the german economy would need to be one...with the same economical government and oversight....we would need to be in a real union...but we don't have that!

So please leave up with your obsession about austerity concerning the EU members...we are far to different and by far not compatible enough for that!

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]


No, austerity is the reason people go looking to an austere Germany or Holland for money when they are in need. A Germany throwing out the money like others wouldn't have any money to help. We would all look like the South.

Your hostility against austerity is totally misguided and not understandable for me, sorry!

I don't want to live in a union which can't hold onto it's money...


Well....the planning has quite progressed. But as I understand it it still needs to be an unanimous decision...so it's now put to the members to say "yes" or "no".

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]


And it would be soothing those Germans who are dead set against these "Coronabonds"!

"Kurzarbeitergeld" is something all here know and appreciate...it makes sense and has already proven to work.

Win-Win!!! :)


It's linked to the EU-Budget....and that is huge! It would be doable....at first about 100 Billion Euros!

If VdL can pull this through she would become the european Queen, better than Merkel heh:)

There is more on that here...sadly only in German:

faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/corona-wie-leyens-plan-fuer-kurzarbeitergeld-in-der-eu-aussieht-16707458.html

taz.de/Streit-ueber-Coronabonds/!5673379/

News / How hard will Poland be hit by the economic crisis? [116]

Super interesting:


rte.ie/news/business/2020/0401/1127856-commission-short-time-work-scheme/

That's real helpful stuff, that "Kurzarbeitergeld" helped Germany already through the financial crisis in 2008 and is being re-instated now again too....it would work well for the poorer EU members too!

It means workers get paid even as the companies they work for have to shut down for awhile during the crisis. Meaning they keep their jobs, and the companies can start again at full power once the crisis is over. Not to mention that the people can survive this time and have enough money to keep consuming, kick start the economy immediately afterwards again.

A large scale impoverishment and unemployment is avoided!

"The European Commision has proposed a short-time work scheme today, modelled on Germany's Kurzarbeit programme, to help people keep their jobs as the coronavirus pandemic hits economies across the 27-nation bloc.

"It is intended to help Italy, Spain and all other countries that have been hard hit. And it will do so thanks to the solidarity of other member states," she said. ...."

News / A better Polish solution: aiding refugees in their home region [29]

Still?

Right now it's mainly you calling for it...

News / A better Polish solution: aiding refugees in their home region [29]

...with what army? :)

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Well, for that we would need exactly this kind of much deeper cooperation that most members want to avoid.

There could be a common social benefits system for all, there could be a common minimum wage, common health care and the same labor rights for all etc...but that needs joint ministries, a joint bureaucracy, shared finances and most of all, a supra-national supervision...where a national government would lose the control about all this.

Those who want that are often accused of wanting a "super state" or worse....you could do something and work at home to support this kind of closer integration and then help to send politicians to Brussels who support that...

Don't blame the current EU for not working miracles! The EU can only be as good as it's members allow...


So well, that it has become the land of milk and honey for the rest of the world...it seems...

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Ein Deutsch-Amerikaner! YAY! :)


I could agree with that...

Now let's focus on making it better...I believe Germany has learned, the whole EURO-zone has learned and Greece will use this crisis to modernize their bureaucracy and economy at last.

But of course, if there is absolutely no good-will from your side towards the EU and the EURO zone then you will probably still keep on waiting and hoping for their downfall....concentrating on their errors and flaws instead of seeing their successes. *shrugs*

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

THE HORROR!!!!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


*nods*

Something what is curiously always ignored by all that finger pointing at Germany...

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


What you are doing now instead is scapegoating Germany for some terrible decisions of greek politicians/economists and the people who kept voting them into place for decades...

What's worse?

And don't forget, without the bailout Greece would today be a failed state with no hope of any recovery whatsover, even the Greeks know that...there has never been a majority against the EURO membership!

Yes, errors had been made on all sides, but they may be excused because unifying such different countries, economies and cultures is never going to be easy...without any blueprint to follow....hell, even unifying Germans hasn't been without stumbling blocks...so, let it go!

You are an Ami??? :)

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

Well, Greece seems to be on the up...if this crisis helped them to organize a better working bureaucracy and economy then maybe it wasn't for naught.

"...Greek debt, viewed as poisonous just years ago, is now in high demand as investors seek stable assets amid a global economic slowdown - and a possible recession...."

businessinsider.de/international/next-recession-greece-joins-negative-yielding-euro-nations-bond-sale-2019-10/?r=US&IR=T

I find it interesting that you as a Pole are more angry at Germany at their behalf than most Greeks...even today, so many years after...

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

....I think he meant the Euro crisis and Greece...maybe...

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


I came to dislike her...to what does that make me?

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

No, I mean your "...Europe will have hell to pay..."....what do you mean with that?

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

How so?

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Your loss!

And I wonder why? Whereas Madagascar might be exotic it doesn't belong to the german/european heritage like eastern Europe.

That is especially astounding coming from people who bear the mantra about the "defense of Europe" always like a shield in front of them. A little bit of knowledge and interest in Europe would be a requirement for that, one would think.

PS: I came to PF many years back seeking a connection to the my ancestors who lived and died in what is now Poland. I met some really great people here who became longstanding friends. I changed abit, I think they changed abit too...together we found out how great such a common heritage can be even if also alot more difficult than say with Madagaskar...but I would had missed alot without this interest!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Then I will join the resistance! :)

And I will do so too if my own german gov tries to opress me...I did it before, I would do so again!

There are no guarantees for anything, Anti....only vigilance.


newsweek.com/donald-trump-says-eu-was-set-order-hurt-united-states-1232747

That speaks for the power of this globalist organization called EU, doesn't it! No lone european country could dream of not only being an equal to the mighty US but a rival!

Have to go now...

'night all

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


That has to be seen for every case....growing up in the GDR my liberty and my rights as individual had been denied or severely diminished by the Soviet Union...but today I have more liberties (traveling, working, living everywhere within the EU) than ever before....my right to speak openly and vote whom I want is guaranteed...the EU is in no way trying to opress me....

And the last decades have been good to Germany...peaceful, prospering, stable...

So, it's as Torq say...globalists organizations aren't generally a good or a bad thing...nothing to fight or to support just because...if someone says so I would beg for clarification.

Trump once said the EU was "made to hurt the US"....so he sees it as a rival...so he wants it destroyed, weakened...that has nothing to do with the welfare of the people in the EU, but all with "MAGA"!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


The Great Combover??? :)

But yeah...totally clashing personalities...wouldn't be a first that the personal dislike between two leaders sours all relationships...one can only sit it out!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

Erm....I as a German feel continously blamed...

Might be that we conceive Trump totally differently....but that fits...as he would be YOUR kind of nationalist...what makes him okay...his "enemies" will beg to differ!

And he too would like the EU see destroyed, he hates supranationalists organizations and their rules...frankly I don't see any difference to any other nationalist right now.

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


I for one do...:)


Hmmm...do you have a living example for one politician of such sort? Because slogans like: "Make **** great again" spring to mind...or "Take back control"....as if foreigners, other countries are to blame for humiliation or loss...that invokes hostility as in "We against them"...not friendship and cooperation.

Do you really know a Sovereignist who can do without it?

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Oh please! Why not say: Different race? Better race???

Crap!

But as I said before, you are a bonafide example of everything what keeps nationalists disunited and weak...why they will always lose against globalists and even leftists!

But be my guest, I'm for sure not suffering for it...


They CAN'T!!!! Spike would never work together with german nationalists to make both countries better and stronger....he would rather cut his hand off! :)

No real opponent for the german and polish globalists and their organizations! :)

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


Lack of means, power and opportunity...if Germany hadn't been the most industrialized and technological advanced country of this age neither wouldn't had german nationalists been able to wreak that much havoc! But they had the power so they could!

Nobody cares about the nationalists of....say...Malta! Simple as that....but the spirit behind is always the same!

We good! - Everybody not like us bad! Needs to be fighted, deported, jailed, oppressed, killed! For the good of our people!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


*epic eye roll*

Of course...only other country's nationalists stink...your own on the other hand smell like rose petals...that's why they hate each other...

THINK!!!

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]

That's the crux of the matter, isn't it?

Nationalists also believe they have to fight for the best of their country.....they must kill all these "traitors" who want to destroy the proud nation...they must "cleanse" the nation from all these gadflies like gays and all those they don't deem to belong....

Only then, when the country is cleaned, the traitors are disposed of THEN the nation will be perfect and safe...something to be proud of...and everybody who thinks differently is naturally an enemy of this nation...

News / Why is Poland so hostile against Germany? Do they realize how their reparations rubbish damages relations? [510]


This kind of cooperation not only benefits Germany....look at Europe BEFORE and since....you can't say only Germany profited from that!

When you listen to...say....Weimarer + Spike.....you just know that would going to end with nationalists at the helm...for the bad of both countries. We would fight again! We would lose again!


It's nothing strange implanted from Mars on us...it's us...we shape and direct it. But with all bitching and discussing and disagreements we should always keep in mind that we have no really a better chance.

That's what makes patriotes different....they want the best for their country! If a supranationalist body can provide that, then...hell yeah! :)

A nationalists hates other countries! They will always think "We against Them"!