The Warsaw Uprising memory. To remember who you are.

In Poleland, the greatest single offense is being unemotional, logical, analytical, calculating, and being able to predict future outcomes. I can almost see that picture with every Pole and his right hand on his heart and the left with some toy pistol - all ready to go to war with them "Nazis". BTW, there were all Germans. Some were Nazis.

Anyone who says, let's chill out and think things through, add potential benefits and losses is a traitor to be shot or at least beaten up in a bar.

One, it's not an advice, it's an order.
Two, Uprising wasn't started by the youth but but the leaders giving orders to fight.

@Lenka
It was all an underground movement, orders were slow to reach out. Right before the uprising even delayed, top brass didn't have the amount of authority as you are imagining it.

Most of the fighters didn't even know personally anyone of the top leaders. What is that you wanted them to say? Call off the uprising? They tried, didn't work. They heavily criticized for calling it off, damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

They didn't have many options, it was either start the uprising or leave the civilians to their fate. (Most of the civilians died I know) at the moment of the decision making they didn't know what would happen at what scale.

If I were one of the leaders I would have thought that Germans would purposely back off as to buy time and to create tension among the allies as much as possible. Instead Hitler decided to flatten Warsaw as to dishearten other cities in Europe from rebelling as well.

I can't honestly understand anyone criticizing the decision making at that moment. It was tons of unknown factors, little communication and no internet or satellite footage.

Dirlwanger was one of the worst! A fella named Lorenz Hackenholt and a certain Willi Menz brought sadism to new lows.

And that is why they would not want me there because I would tell them to get their asses down here first and then give orders to shoot the guys who armed like 100 times better and are a lot less sentimental about killing me for my "bravery". Just to play games with the Russians.

That is why armies all over the world, don't like men over 35, and not because they are physically weaker. Those frontal lobes that develop by 25 do work but not the way the generals want.

Remember: every war has its generals who are safe and the obedient useful idiots who are not. Generals get monuments, useful idiots - unmarked graves. No, thanks.

Listen guys, I think we need to agree to disagree on this very emotive subject of fairly recent Polish history.
The Warsaw Uprising was a mistake by the people in command.
But that takes nothing away from the peoples bravery on the frontline, many of whom lost their lives.
Rich, disobeying dumb orders was not an option.


I have a problem with that term.
Why "Jewish Poles", why not just "Poles" ?
Why do you have to seperate them because of religion?
Makes no sense to me.

Once you are in, it's not an option. Volunteering is and many volunteered.


Mistake is when I type "mystake". That was a criminal act that goes under "let's do something", no matter the benefits and the casualties. Effectively, it was 10 times more criminal than Katyn. Actually, even worse than that since to was the fat old Poles who, from their safety, sent the young and the naive Poles on an unwinnable mission and to their death. Plus, another 150,000 dead at the hands of the barbarians.


That's why I have nothing in common with that tribe. My emotions are reserved for fewer than a dozen people I would put my life on the line for. The rest can go to hell.

To the old farts safely in London, Poland was just a board of checkers. They were too stupid and emotional to play chess.

No, you are wrong here.mate, nothing is MORE criminal than Katyn.Even The Holocaust was AS criminal as Katyn.
But nothing was worse.

You are wrong. Sending your own to death is a lot worse than doing it to the enemy. And then there are those numbers - 20,000 vs 200,000.

Don't overlook that the 200,000 included women and kids. 20,000 did not.

Yes! Also Wilno both were liberated by AK, Some other places due to same tactical cooperation between AK and Soviet Army..
Do you think you are fresh here? There is plenty and was plenty of people in Poland yapping like you. Nothing new.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing even a moron can look like a genius in his own eyes. (copyright mine)

Thing is the Warsaw Uprising was a logical consequence of Poland standing up to Hitler in 1939. It was not the wised choice, All the rest is a history


No you are wrong!

Wilno was liberated by AK the way Paris was liberated by the French. Don't make me laugh. If AK never existed, the war outcome would be the same except fewer people would be killed in the summer of 1944 in Warsaw.


This is not about hindsight. This is about how the "leadership" sent men on a suicide mission. The very idea that 40,000 AK may somehow stop the millions of the Soviet army from taking Poland and turning the country into their own vassal is so idiotic that it borders on criminal. No, AK had no impact on the war in any meaningful way.

Apparently this has become some sort of another right wing Polish nationalist day like that march with anti gay banners for all the world to see:

warszawa.naszemiasto.pl/x-marsz-powstania-warszawskiego-przeszedl-przez-stolice-nie/ar/c1-8391615?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=moje_miasto_warszawa&utm_campaign&fbclid=IwAR0XSieJHnBxtVYvgvdikb1KpPwoehoKQSSUIKnvGFQulXodKw4rJ-eql7w

no wonder biden and kamala are backing otua nd selling poland at yalta again with nordstream. Makes sense the cancel culture being involved.

Lol at these guys crying:
youtube.com/watch?v=y9H40s4F-9Q

When you have a country full of nationalists and who discriminate against others trying to get kamala harris and biden to not sell them or cancel culture them you got to be stupid. What is crazy listening to these old people talk saying poland for only polish people same shet hitler and nazis were saying and they act like they're victims lol because ukrainians now live in poland or some immigrants or some ****. You really think Poland would not be betetr off today Jon if they die off?

youtube.com/watch?v=uZpde3pPo4I&t=92s

Hey, Ryszard or Novichook what u think of this debate?

youtu.be/upo3cpqpP6c

My bad I dont mean to disrecpect all the older people who were there or veterans or just part of it like some of those ladies. but that guy who they put as the face of that video talking naitonalistic rhetoric sounds like Novichok or worse one of those old hillbillies from the deep south in USA talking about dem colored folk.

Kiev in color 1941 - damm this looks worse than even Warsaw uprising:

youtu.be/_GeULjub59Q

@Milo, let's not fall into the all too familiar trap of labeling merely the Camps as "The Holocaust"!!
The Holocaust essentially began the day Hitler assumed power and deemed himself Fuehrer des Dritten Reiches.
Auschwitz along with all the others were indeed the terrifying outward manifestation of all Hitler's ultimate plans.
However, to compare Katyn, a horrific yet once in a blue moon massacre with the nearly twelve-year long systematic, methodically sadistic, official, state-sponsored
program of mass degradation, removal, and assembly-line like annihilation of a single people (albeit non-Jews such as the Sinti-Roma were part of that
program) is not only insulting to the memory of survivors, it's historically and factually inaccurate.

I agree with you, Lyzko. Katyn is like Moon eclipsing Sun. To a Pole, Moon is as big as Sun.

Whatever that means. Was I just insulted? LOL

That means that you were right in this case and that Poles are unable to place all events and emotions on the same linear scale. Theirs has to be logarithmic for things to fit on one page.

Stay on topic please. This is a Polish topic not jewish and this topic should not be abuse.

Perhaps so.

# 93 You're right. It should also be known that at the beginning of September, with no help from their, so-called "Alies", the leaders of the insurrection did not negotiate with the Germans for surrender.

At that time the Soviets started some bombing. False hope.
It was their vicious plan to stop these negotiations and for the Germans to kill as many Poles as possible and the Soviets (passive accomplices) to continue to watch this barbarism from the front row.

Negotiate??! You're as loopy as Chamberlain. No "deals" with dictators! That's why Lindberg was such a louse.

Hey Novichok, Ryszard, what do you mean their emotions? how are they emotional about some officers few thousand being executed? why are they part or their families or somehting or were they always russophiles?

For the record, it was the Poles who started killing Germans first on August 1, 1944. Germans killing Poles was entirely preventable. In dozens of Polish cities, the residents only had to wait till the occupiers were gone. That's it.

The Uprising's primary target was the USSR, not Germany since it had nothing to do with the liberation of Poland from the Germans. The end was inevitable with or without AK.


From their pov, it was a twofer - Germans killing unfriendly Poles (Katyn 2.0) and Poles killing Germans that would make taking Warsaw easier later. Why would the Soviets want to disrupt it? And why the surprise that they didn't?

As far as "barbarism", the Soviets were very familiar with barbarism perpetrated on them in the millions so their sensitivity to such things was seriously diminished by the end of 1944. Later, they demoed the concept in Berlin. Good.

Wartime barbarísm is one issue. The wholesale ethnic incarceration and subsequent slaughter of a single people quite another.

I already said that you were right because Germans killing Jews was in a different category than the Russians killing Poles in Katyn. One was genocide, the other politics. One was for the immutable victims' characteristics, the other for political and mutable views. Not even close.

What must be so upsetting to the Holocaust survivors is how Germans didn't suffer any comparable consequences. Instead, they were actually rewarded by the West. Sick.

At least the Soviets took everything they could lift and let thousands of Germans rot in Syberia until they were dead. That made the war more memorable to those who managed not to die.

Among Red Scarers, "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."!

Yeah...but only the West....

That maxim didn't work well for AK.


That's what I just said. And that's why I respect the Soviets more. My only problem with them is that they were too nice.

Don't! There is no need to...

We Ossis pitied the soviet soldiers stationed in the GDR....Now and then some tried to flee their "barracks" and tried to hide to just get away...

As I grew up we hated our own miserable commie party brigade but not the Soviets....we had no reason...we lived better than them and had way more freedoms than them, and that is saying alot.

But still, to be stationed in East-Germany was coveted by these soldiers, they were seen as an elite...and we had a living standard they could only dream of!

That had most occupation troops together I think, in East- and West Germany...the common soldier-Joe and the common soldier-Ivan...experiencing a tidy country (after everything was cleaned up and rebuild)!