History of Polish-Russian relations

I did - for seven years.

Vlad1234, so what is your ethnicity?


I only mirrored what you wrote yourself (because it can be mirrored perfectly right back at Russia). So what's your problem?

As for "possible reconsiliation"... Now? With a psycho Nazi-like Putinist Russia?? You must be kidding!


Still? Now? I have the opposite impression - that they don't want to have anything to do with anything Russian anymore. And I can't blame them. I used to be a bit of a Russophile in the past. My discussions with Russians on the internet killed that Russophilia in me to a great extent. The annexation of Crimea killed it completely. And now I don't want to have anything to do with anything Russian. Russian culture, which I liked in the past, is simply dead for me now. I used to be a fan of Russian figure skating, but nowadays I'd probably feel like puking when seeing their performances.

Not any more.
Putin put pad to that!

What about Eastern Ukrainians? Or Ukrainians in general?


It depends on how you define "ethnicity". It is not exactly scientific, but rather a domestic concept. I was born in Ukraine and my native language is Russian (as with majority of those who was born in Ukraine), but I can understand and read in Ukrainian since childhood. There are no completely pure ethnicities. Many Ukrainians have plenty of Polish, Tatar and many other admixtures. Those nations they contacted, or who live in Ukraine. Around 50% of Ukrainians have R1a haplogroup which is the most common among Northern Slavic people, which still make valid the assumptions we are still predominantly Slavic nation. I don't know how you could draw a sharp line between Russian , Belarussians and Ukrainian ethnicities, for example. This is just an approximate constructs...

More and more people are feeling that way.

It's history repeating. Leopards don't change their spots, and for years I've felt like a Cassandra warning of the danger of russia and certain other countries both in Europe and outside it.

As Santayana wrote, those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it, and that is precisely what we're seeing now.

But, hey, people find it easier to hate Muslim and/or African countries and their disempowered populations, possibly in part as a result of subtle propaganda from russia. They are skilled at that and it's fair to wonder how much discreet stirring they've done in Poland since they were kicked out, and how many agents of influence they have in the region even now.

Probably it does have much to do with refugee and migrant crisis?

It long predates that, however russia and other malign state actors certainly make use of areas of public concern.

As well as mass immigration.

Something mostly visible only to the minority who live in big cities.

She ask you what you are! Ukrainian, Russian, Soviet, Slow?


Very easily. Belorusan are the local population of peasant that beloned to the Grand Dutchy of Lithuania before partitions.
Ukrainians are people like peasants, cossacks, small or unlanded nobility living on lands that belonged to the Dutchy and later to the Polish Crown. That land was taken by Russia gradually. Eastern part was taken by Russia at the end of the 17th century, and the rest in 18th century.

During Russian and then Soviet times poulation was moved around some but they never lost their sense of identity.


Don't hate but ask why the hell those people are coming here? Europe is not that big, Afirca is few times bigger and have overally nice weather. They say that white people do not bleong in Africa but its racist to say that black do not belong in Europe. See duble standarts.

As for those 'refugees' from Belarus they already on their way to German or the uk. Should we just put buses for them and move them to German border? IF not all those liberal Big gobs should shut up and they sdould be shoot at and kicked out at the border.

A massive decrease in infant mortality three decades ago, an increase in life expectancy without any economic growth or jobs, no increase in birth control or access to abortion, and most people in those awful places (and some of them are **** holes) having access to satellite tv or smartphone and seeing that other places are better.

The place I was in in Africa for 3 years until covid has a median age of 21. Some countries there have a median age of 19. Basically a ticking time bomb.

Plus it's been weaponised by Putler/Lukaszenko, to an extent Macron and probably the Chinese too.

I suspect Putler has a hand in a lot of this, plus Beijing.

I self identify as a Ukrainian. As majority of those Russian-speaking people who were born in Ukraine.


Yes, but this is some vague constructs, not an absolute sharp-cutting border. Could anyone tell a sharp distinction between a German and an Austrian even though the later lived in Habsburg Empire?


Very simple. The winners dictate standards. Europeans lack will (to life), spirit and solidarity and they became the loosers.


Fortunately not for us personally, unless we are going to live 100+ years.

When they open their mouth!


I don't think so!

We have been pussified by decades of peace and food and (for a half) freedom....most people never had to truly fight for anything....where should the "will" come from?

But I'm totally sure....it's all still there....skin deep....it won't take much to get it all out again...but on the other hand, that won't be nice. I like it peaceful and fat better! :)

indeed, though it may well be a bumpy road on the way.

Ideally it has to be inborn. And the right man will always find the right cause to fight for. Just look around and think deeply...

There is a difference in "looking for it" because I WANT to fight, because I'm bored or something and having to fight, because I'm defending my life, my family, my loved ones, my way of living!

That's the "will" that counts....

well 500 years of history would make it more profound. Like West and East Franks after 500 years we have French and Germans.
The same with language, Scottish, Americans or Irish all speak English it doesn't make them English.
Nothing is vague, being part of the Moscow/ Soviet Empire made it vague because people were opressed.

Quite likely. Personally I'm especially concerned about the rumors that some Eastern Europeans are kidnapped and brainwashed and basically kept in slavery. Is it the kind of "freedom" that the descendents of slaves and fighters with racism have dreamt about?!

You mean reconciliation between Poles and Ukrainians?


You mean Ukrainian refugees being sent by Russians to filtration camps, the pro-Ukrainian ones disappearing without a trace and the rest being sent to far away areas of Russia and kept there against their will, allegedly forced to work for free, Ukrainian children being taken away from their parents, put into orphanages and set up for adoption by Russian couples so they could be brainwashed into being Russians? Yes, I'm very concerned about that too. Those are Stalinist and Nazi-like methods.

Then why are you on Russia's side? Are you a traitor?

Yes, he is a traitor.

Yes, Putin lied as usual when he suggested that Belgium came into being thanks to Russians.

No, Russian liars, it was the opposite, you were going to suppress the Belgian rising against their Dutch rulers in 1830-31. There were such plans and you were getting ready for the intervention.

It was the outbreak of the Polish November Rising of 1830 which prevented the Russian army from being sent to fight against Belgians. Instead, it had to deal with unruly Poles and Polesses.

All in all, in this part of Europe, it was Poles and Polesses who paved the way to Belgium`s independence.
Fekk all imperial Russian liars!!!

So... by not suppressing their revolt... we are responsible for them existing.

Not doing something, can be as powerful, or more powerful, than doing something.

In any case - great for Belgium, and again sh*t for Poland. You killed your people, did not get freedom from Russia (but instead doubled the medicine dosage), but... in a tangential way freed the Belgians. Great job!

Yes, imperial Russian reasoning. :):):) Similarly, you can claim that by raping millions of German women, Soviet Russian soldiers benevolently helped Germany make up for its WW2 population losses. :(:(:(


Darling, that is our Polish character you know nothing about:
Polish rule no 1:
Poland is the Christ of Nations.,
Rule No 2:
For our and your freedom!! Ha!!!!

At that time Russia was the conservative policeman of Europe.

We were called in as a firefighting brigade by the monarchs of Europe, to put down any liberal movements that showed signs of life.

Belgium was small peanuts. Poland was much more important. Even more important than Poland, was saving the Habsburgs during the Hungarian Revolution.

In Russia itself we had the Decembrist Revolt - which was also brutally crushed. Back then there were plenty of Jons and Mafs also, that were convinced this meant the imminent end of Russia. However, Russia is adept at survival.

Darling, but we did in the long run coz the memory of the Nov Uprising had been kept in the nation for decades until Independence Day. It is still cherished today by the choice of literature required at school. What do you know about Reduta Ordona?????? hahahaha


That is imperial Russian character - to be a policeman, invader, occupier, rapist, murderer.
Polish character is freedom fighter. Ha!!!


Yes, thank you for admitting that your beloved ruler Putin is a stinking liar. :):):) AmaSSing!!!


Stop mixing things - focus on the topic of the thread.

What???


Listen - I am on the same side as the Decembrists and Novembrists. I am not gonna spend energy apologizing for the Tsar's reactionary policies.

I think us acting as policeman was a grave mistake, and is what threw us back in development much more than any Mongol occupation.

I'm not arguing with you, but just explaining that Putin could be viewed as correct in his argument.

Many, many, many Russians think the Decembrists were good men that were murdered in cold blood.

P.S. - By the way the Habsburg's paid us back for saving their dynasty and their empire by abandoning us during the Crimean War. Russia has no allies - but its fleet and army. Relying on anyone else or their word has always proven to be a mistake.

No, you are not coz you are imperialist Russian in mind and heart. 1830 November Rising fighters were like Ukrainians of 2022-24 - they fought for their freedom and independence from Russian brutal domination. You support Russian war against Ukraine so you would also support Russian occupation of Poland.

Stop lying so obsessively, I don`t have time to deal with stinking imperial lying Russian azholes. I want to focus on Polish art, culture, food and literature but can`t coz you fekking distract me. :(:(:(:(:((:(

I don't lie. I don't have time, or interest in this.

I argue.

You are misinformed regarding what were the driving impulses of the November revolt. You also, have no idea what was happening during the December revolt.

It was not a reaction against Russian domination, but a continent-wide surge towards democracy. Specifically, the granting of a constitution, which could enshrine the rights of citizens.

Russians lost as much, or more, than the Poles lost when November and December failed.

It f*cked Poland and it f*cked Russia.

The Tsar won, the People lost.

AmaSSing! You want to teach Polish history to a native Pole who loves history of Poland and have been studying it since 3 grade of primary school ???? hahahaha


Of course it was. The Russian tsar obsessively broke the Constitution of the Polish Kingdom, thus displaying the Russian domination over Poles and Polesses, which eventually proved unbearable.

He did.


Ok. But it was, as I said, CONTINENT-WIDE.

The aftershocks of the French Revolution were making themselves known, despite there being a restored Bourbon king on the throne of France.

People wanted power. Not just from Russians, but from kings and emperors.

The Polish revolt was driven by these same sentiments, much more than any anti-Russian position as you try to force in this argument. This concept was alien at the time.

You are making ahistorical arguments.