POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER

If they do, they don't kill their own.
Women who abort kill their own and with full premeditation !
That's a thousand times worse.

So your conclusion is that r*ssia must be defeated and divided.


It's the charming ones you have to watch.

No. My conclusion is that some kind of honest people should be able to get to the top, or Russia has to be changed externally. What I mean by this is that outside help from another country would help Russia to change for the better. A bit revolution can just make things even worse, look at the revolution last century. Stalin came of that. Most of all, anyone considering or making change should be careful. Of course, my talking is basically preaching - I'm not going to do anything that could tarnish my career in ballet.

And you can say Russia, it isn't dangerous.

Yes, defeated and cut up into loads of smaller independent states.
That represent their local populations better.
Russia is not a real country, it is a huge empire of different cultures ruled by a small gangster elite in Moscow.

That would be good, but could it truly happen?


It's a federation so it should be possible. One problem is that due to (forced) resettlement, Udnurtd, Bashkorts etc are minorities in their own countries.

That, jon, is exactly the problem.


I don't think thats good idea at all. Russia should stay Russia, just different political rule.

Those two ideas are mutually contradictory... the artificial white elephant (really the last remenants of a family empire) is part of the problem. Different Russian speaking countries collaborating and competing with each other could develop more rapidly and in better ways than the single clumsy awkward.... thing that Russia is now.

@mafketis
I can't imagine no Russia. What would I call myself, St. Petersburgian? What mini country would you make Petersburg? What would happen to Russian ballet, Russian art, Russian music? Subdivided? How would the ballet world survive? How would people live without Russia? It can't become different countries, Russia is Russia. I can't imagine not being Russian because there is no Russia.

Maybe tha maybe there would be a much smaller r*ssia with some bits shaved off and the other republics in the federation independent.

I don't know. How about the Republic of Moscow or the Republic of Novogrod?


Better!


It will come to easily, you don;t have a nation or a nation state, it will be fine. As soon as your opressive backwood uselss, imperalitic state is gone you will feel better for it.

Only those KGB types or on the top will crave power - F them!

@jon357
Better leave Russia as being Russia. No need to mess so much with it.

You guys are dividing up Russia in your minds so eagerly... but would people in those republics actually want that?


What policies are you talking about?


So you're two-faced? This is what I'm wondering about... Do your girlfriend and her parents know your views concerning war in Ukraine?

It is proverbial dividing the bear`s skin before it is hunted down. Simple.

How about Lower Mazowia, Confederation of Krakow districts or Anarchy of Malopolska ? ;) ;)

How about? - nobody asked you!

You'd think someone would be interested in Polish ideas on how to saw Russia into pieces. You'd better be concerned with convincing arguments why you shouldn't fight for your Anglo-Saxon masters to the last Pole, when Ukrainians capable and willing to fight all of a sudden run out. I would already estimate the chances of preserving Ukrainian statehood as low, Poland still has all the chances, all that remains is to find a leader who cares more about Poland than Euro-Atlantic solidarity and for whom MI6 will not have hours of video shagging with everything from baboons to Zulu beauties as compromising material, in addition to the statements of accounts to which he was bribed. ;) ;)

No need for the west to do anything, china will do the chop for us in siberia and elsewhere. :)

No... RAP is a great example of the infantile Russian mentality.... they want change but they dont' want to change (which means nothing's going to happen). They simply whine like cranky babies and wait for someone to change their diapers.

It is what it is. And Russia is Russia which is a backward, authoritarian craphole.... because of the deepest Russian values.

@Paulina & Pawian

Sorry, I refuse to be drawn into your little world of hate. I can fight the Russians - and I will, if Russia ever invades Poland - but I will not be drawn into hatred of all things Russian.

And no, I don't think Russians - even those who support the war - are "nazi angels of death" or whatever. Enjoy your little spiteful kind of self-righteousness, I'm done with you.

The problem is, that it is dangerous and a malign element in the world.

One with the attitudes of centuries ago, and a bloodthirsty lust for waging war.

If you have a dog that not only bites someone once but keeps on biting people, sometimes fatally, and continues to do this despite every step taken to prevent it, you take it to the vet to be put to sleep.

@jon357
That can be changed though, without ripping Russia apart. But Russia as itself isn't inherently "dangerous and malign" ( what on earth is "malign"??).

I suspect that must be the outcome.


We have to act on the actual evidence. Something so consistent that it can be called a clear course of action cannot be ignored.

Right now it is. Most of Russians support their KGB gangster leaders` aggressive attitude and its outcomes - e.g., capturing Crimea in 2014 was welcomed with utter enthusiasm by common Russians. If Putler`s RuSSists had captured Kyiv a few months ago, you would also jump up and down with joy. In the same way as common Germans were overjoyed upon taking Paris in 1940.


Darling, it will be too late then. We need to apply preventive measures now. :)


Yes, enjoy your nice relations with Putler`s RuSSists.

Yes, I realise that. It's natural that people are afraid. I didn't mean public protests or sth of this kind. But I think people could start organising themselves in not an open way. More like an underground social movement... Do you know what brought down communism in Poland? A trade union... It was called Solidarity... A bunch of ordinary people fighting, ironically, for workers' rights...

I remember that one Pole living in Berlin was laughing a bit at my friend from Moscow when she wrote that Russians probably have to start from basics, from their micro-worlds, like, for example, keeping the surroundings of their blocks of flats clean. But maybe she was right. It seems a civic society has to be built basically from scratch in Russia... You guys would have to learn to self-organise... Because one individual or a small group of people can't make a change or stand up to a regime. As you wrote, it's too dangerous. And pretty futile too. So, instead of having a few martyrs, it's better to organise and grow in numbers. Putin can lock up a few hundred or even a few thousand people, but he wouldn't be able to lock up millions. That was Solidarity's strength - 10 million members... "W kupie siła" as we say in Poland :)

Of course that wouldn't happen overnight, it would be a long process. Someone would have to educate people about the civic society, democracy and their benefits. That would be a lot of work though and I don't know if there would be enough people in Russia to take up such a task. Especially considering all the emigration that had happened after the invasion started...


Neither do I live in a little "world of hate" nor do I hate all things Russian. As you can see RussianAntiPutin is Russian and I don't hate her, so get a grip with reality.

Also, I'm not going to draw you into my world or anything else for that matter, because I don't need nor want such an impressionable, unstable and fickle drama queen like you in that world of mine, so get over yourself :)) This is a discussion forum and I'm simply sharing my opinions and observations. If you're not interested in them or you don't care what I think then you don't have to read them.


Oh, I don't think that all Russians who support the invasion are the same. It's just Bobko in my opinion is one of the worst types of those. I find Velund's hate, for example, against Ukraine for the casualties inflicted by Ukrainian forces in the Donbas region since 2014 more, let's say, "normal", than Bobko's cold imperialism. Hate can pass, but I doubt you can easily cure someone from imperialistic state of mind.

Of course, it would be great if I was wrong about Bobko, but so far he hasn't disagreed with anything I wrote about him, he hasn't denied anything or challenged my view of him. All he wrote was that he's a "doofus" in real life. What the f*ck is that supposed to mean? lol

(He's generally not very "responsive", so it's difficult to say whether anything people are writing, explaining, is sinking in in case of Bobko or not.)

And it's not just Bobko. During all those discussions with Russians I've noticed a pretty shocking lack of empathy and understanding for other nations and countries also among other pro-Putin Russians.

I've never noticed it among anti-Putin, pro-democratic Russians.

So, to sum it up, I find Russians like Bobko objectionable. Not all Russians, but Russian imperialists, chauvinists, Putinists. And not just because of their views, but also because of their lack of empathy, lack of moral values, cynicism, etc. Even if they're as polite as Bobko, because it's really not the most important quality in a human being for me.

Why do you dislike him? I like to talk to him. When you talk about lack of empathy, lack of moral values, cynicism, that is all common for Russians. Is that Bobko or Velund there is no difference.

The difference is that Velund given a chance would torture you just because he could, lashing out in this way.
While Bobko would do that only if he could get something out of it and would have Velund to do it if he could.
In short I know what I'm standing on with Bobko and he gets geopolitical issues while Velund only spew dumb Russian propaganda - which is boring.

@Cojestdocholery, it's not that I prefer Velund over Bobko. It's just, in theory, Velund could be a product of Russian state propaganda. He lives in Russia. You can't say the same about Bobko. He lives in the West, he graduated from a Western university, he's enjoying all the benefits of democracy, free media, etc. And yet, he's a pro-Putin imperialist supporting invasion on Ukraine and he doesn't seem to mind all the death and destruction that the Russian army is inflicting in Ukraine. That's why he sends chills down my spine, no matter how "nice" he is.

Also, as far as I remember, he wrote that I wouldn't want to have him on the other side of the frontline in a war, or sth like that. I'm not sure what he meant, but probably nothing good :)


The end result would be the same for me in both situations - I'd get tortured (and killed if needs be).

I would never let anything happen to you lol!

Mode of operandi for Russians is living in fear, instead of fearing God almighty. They fear everything else around them, especially those with big sticks. So they prefer to give a big stick to others as a way to not get it themselves, which shocks them when they actually receive it back and in a more hurtful way.

Until they understand that they can stop living in such fear, they won't get out of that loop. Fear transferring to next generation of Russians. Traumas of the past continuing on and on

Well....if "your team" is winning it's tough for any opposition....even if you have your own doubts....they are silenced by all the cheer around you....who doesn't like the "home team" winning, no matter if in the right or in the wrong.....

That too is basic human psychology! *shrugs*

Imagine for a moment Poland acting like Russia....invading western Ukraine for some historical reasons/grievances whatever....probably using the "Banderists" too as a kind of justification....getting some old territory/town back....

How many Poles would agree....would even cheer every success of the polish army....would you also so openly here disagree and fight the polish leadership?

Do you think the Poles as a people would try to overturn the polish government from the streets to end this invasion? Or wouldn't here too a majority agree or at least stay silent? What do you think?

@Bratwurst Boy
That is a difficult situation, closest I can get is when Lithuanian aristocracy prolonged sending military to Vienna against the Ottomons due to internal bickering with Sobieski and Polish ND being passive with their forces and in general in hopes of Piłsudski's personal defeats + Polish Sejm objecting a campaign to capture Moscow as not to increase king's authority and influence. (Polish king having Moscovy as personal fief would create severe problem for Polish nobility powerwise)

So in modern terms, refusal of paying taxes, arming as many as possible quietly or starting peaceful civic activities.