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Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite?


dolnoslask 5 | 2,915
30 Jan 2018 #91
fact that they will also question YOU and be ready to accept the fact that their views may be different to your own.

Yes Atch your post is an eloquent edit of my post, thanks.
kaprys 3 | 2,439
30 Jan 2018 #92
Well, in a recent discussion about Edward VIII I learned that prejudiced comments about Jews, Africans and the disabled were typical for the era so ...
Atch 17 | 3,265
30 Jan 2018 #93
Are you being sarcastic Kaprys? Are you suggesting that such prejudices were uncommon a hundred years ago?? Because you'll find that they most certainly weren't, not just in Britain either but in Europe and America. Such prejudices continue to exist today but openly expressed, prejudiced remarks are less common as they have become socially unacceptable.

I'll give you an example. In 1993 a study was carried out in Australia regarding attitudes to the ill and disabled in a multi-cultural society. They found that while the German and Anglo groups were the most accepting, other groups were significantly less so but across all nationalities:

"people with AIDS, mental retardation, psychiatric illness and cerebral palsy, the least accepted of the disability groups."

Also very interesting was the fact " These stigma hierarchies were remarkably similar to other hierarchies reported over the last 23 years."

So in a quarter of century there had been little change in society's attitudes towards those with mental disability or psychiatric illness.
kaprys 3 | 2,439
30 Jan 2018 #94
My point is that if that was the status quo why do we have to go back and discuss POLISH people only?
I'm sorry but I don't really remember anyone saying 'that was common back then' when it's about Poland.
Now I dare say prejudiced attitudes are still common - all over the world. Even in the so-called tolerant countries.
Atch 17 | 3,265
30 Jan 2018 #95
I suppose it's because it's a Polish forum. Of course it's ridiculous to single out Poles for such prejudices, there was plenty of anti-semitism in other countries and had been for centuries. But this forum is full of weirdos Kaprys and most of the 'I'm not anti-semitic, I'm just anti-Zionist' nonsense we see on this forum comes from Pol-Ams who've picked up their attitudes from America, not from Poland. Speaking as an Irish person, we have sod-all interest in Zionism, most ordinary people would never even have heard the term, and we have no issues with Jews either. Americans, or those who were raised in America, bring their particular brand of politics to this forum and a certain strand of American society is obsessed with Jews.

In fact I just checked and the person who started this thread is American - I rest my case.
kaprys 3 | 2,439
30 Jan 2018 #96
As far as I know, you live in Poland. Or I misunderstood something.
Do you really hear such things from Poles on a regular basis? Like: 'Oh, what's your opinion of Kwestia żydowska by Dmowski? '
SigSauer 4 | 413
30 Jan 2018 #97
@Atch

What do you mean you have sod all concern for Zionism? So a philosophy and doctrine that leads to the largest open air prison in human history and an apartheid style of governance is of no concern to you? I guess a lot of people said the same thing when Jews were being persecuted throughout Europe, by your logic Atch.

As to the idea that anti-semitism in general is on the rise in Europe, its nonsense. The only place there has been a real rise in antisemitism is in the neighborhoods most populated by people from MENA countries, which is why we saw 3,000 people chanting "death to jews" in Malmo,Sweden. They weren't indigenous Swedes.

Poland's neighbor has experience being the victim of lies such as that. I've no time for human rights abuses, nor do I have time for antisemites, but a peoples collective suffering and past does not excuse them from the mistreatment and subjugation of people in the present.

Ukrainian Jewish leaders challenge report on rising anti-Semitism
By Veronika Melkozerova.


kyivpost/lifestyle/people/journalism-of-tolerance/ukrainian-jewish-leaders-challenge-report-rising-anti-semitism.html
Atch 17 | 3,265
30 Jan 2018 #98
As to the idea that anti-semitism in general is on the rise in Europe, its nonsense.

I never suggested such a thing.

What do you mean you have sod all concern for Zionism?

Because America has a large Jewish population, Americans take a lot of notice of what goes on in Israel etc. Ireland doesn't because we have fewer than 3,000 Jews in the entire country so the reality is that Jewish, Israeli or "Zionist" politics are not an issue on which the majority of the Irish population would have an opinion.
SigSauer 4 | 413
30 Jan 2018 #99
Given Europe's history with antisemitism it is just appalling to me that now people of your particular political leanings Atch, have decided hundreds of thousands of people with a mindset JUST LIKE THIS, should reside in Europe permanently. Brilliant.

"Death to the Jews,' and 'More stabbings,' the protesters screamed," recalls Jehoshua Kaufman, head of communications for Malmö's Jewish community.

timesofisrael.com/facing-death-chants-and-hate-crimes-swedens-jews-live-in-a-climate-of-fear
Atch 17 | 3,265
30 Jan 2018 #100
your particular political leanings Atch

What are my political leanings? I'm not in favour of unfettered immigration into Europe if that's what you mean. Where did you get that idea from?
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
30 Jan 2018 #101
@Bieganski, looks to me though as if you're using the old "Yeah, but Hitler built the Autobahn and he did promote vegetarianism...etc." to justify unspeakably terrible things, here, saying that only Zionists would criticize Dmowski for being a known anti-Semite.

Anti-any sort of bigotry's always the easy way out for blamers to put the guilt on others as the cause of larger social problems.

Had the Jews of Poland been allowed to integrate not long after they arrived, convert only at their desire, there would scarcely have been all that trouble for centuries. Jews are no more recalcitrant about adopting to their surroundings than anybody else!
G (undercover)
30 Jan 2018 #102
the article which I read was strangely uncritical of Dmowski.

Why should it be critical ??
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
30 Jan 2018 #103
Why shouldn't it? Any ultra-nationalistic posture endangers those groups living within their midst who are seen as not conforming to a basically artificial ideology, whether Israel for Sabarim only, Poland for the Poles, Germany for the Germans etc. It's all the same hateful business which contends the nation should take care solely of her own surplus and "others" who don't happen to fit in with state plans be damned!!
kaprys 3 | 2,439
30 Jan 2018 #104
It worked both ways. Jews who chose assimilation were often criticised for betraying their Jewishness.
Lyzko 25 | 7,009
30 Jan 2018 #105
..while the more far thinking, kaprys, realized before long that the road to acceptance, is solely through assimilation!

A good point.
pawian 173 | 12,567
24 Jun 2020 #106
Yes, let's discuss them. Which one are you referring to? I assume that you have actually read them.

I am referring to the ones which I read in this book seen below. His friendly attitude to Russia (though undermined with the complex of superiority towards Russian lower culture) is scattered throughout his publications over decades.

In the text from 1931 entitled Post War World and Poland, in its subchapter entitled Russia - Cleaning the Ground Dmowski suggests Russia is going to be the major player and Poles should forget their past grievances and reconsider Russia as a partner, bigger than false West or dominating Germany. Poland should NOT get involved in any hostile action of the West against Russia.

The second photo shows an excerpt on page 301.

In all his texts Dmowski shows his obsessive fear and hatred of Germany, treating Russia as a much smaller problem or even a potential partner for Poland. His naive beliefs were shattered in 1939 when Stalin`s Russia attacked Poland with Germans.

Today, naive ideas about Russia as a partner in the crusade against the West are cherished by contemporary rightwingers and nationalists, including PiS.

And if you didn't here's an article about Dmowski's attitude towards Russia

Yes, I know this one. Let me reply with another link to the analysis of Dmowski`s political views on Russia

Read the part entitled Attitude to Russia

mysl-polska.pl/node/270

Reaching a political consensus with Russia is a top priority for Polish politics. - that`s the main idea of it.

Now, we can ask - at what cost? What was Dmowski prepared to sacrifice in order to establish partnership with Russia? Taking into account his obsessive hatred of Germany and distrust to other Western countries, the answer is natural - he was ready to give up Polish aspirations to be the part of West and eventually join the Russian sphere of interests.

Thank you very much.





Ironside 49 | 10,452
24 Jun 2020 #107
hank you very much.

You need a lesson in reading comprehension. there is nothing in there that you say there is. Its a pity that is in Polish otherwise others would surely see you are just an old fraud.
pawian 173 | 12,567
24 Jun 2020 #108
Of course not, you are wrong , as always. You need to learn to read between the lines. Dmowski was ambiguous on purpose, he didn`t want to be accused of pro-Russian stance, that is why he only suggested certain things indirectly. In reality, what he was constantly aiming for was Polish Russian partnership based on mutual distrust of the West.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
24 Jun 2020 #109
You need to learn to read between the lines

So you read in there that what you want to find, not what is actually written in there. Are you a con artist?
pawian 173 | 12,567
24 Jun 2020 #110
I showed only one photo with one excerpt from one year. There could be many more from older and later publications but it is useless coz you need to read the whole text on your own.

The message of his discourse in several texts is plain - Dmowski, regardless of the political system in Russia - whether tsarist or democratic or Soviet - was always trying to reach an agreement with Russians and become partners.

That is easy to understand why he stuck to this idea for so long. Alliance with Russia was contrary to the views of his main political rival, Piłsudski who always considered Russia the greatest threat to Poland. Dmowski tried to oppose Piłsudski in all aspects of politics so it is natural he supported close ties with Russia.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
24 Jun 2020 #111
I showed only one photo with one excerpt from one yea

Are you retarded? Shouldn't you provide a page with a quite that would support your claim without shadow of a doubt? You haven't done so. Now you dishing excuses.

You sound like a con artist.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
24 Jun 2020 #112
Dmowski tried to oppose Piłsudski in all aspects of politics so it is natural he supported close ties with Russia.

Dmowski's relation to Russia was closely tied to his justified belief that the biggest threat to Poland is, and always was, a Germany.

Dmowski wasn't impressed with Russia in the slightest sense of that word. He regarded them as a primitive civilization. In his work about "Germany, Russia and a Polish question" published in 1908 he regarded Russia as a country which is on a brink of self-destruction. And that's exactly what has happened in 1917

So he wanted to ally with Russia first to take over occupied Polish lands from the Germans and then once all those lands are united to work against Russia for Polish independence.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,423
24 Jun 2020 #113
and then once all those lands are united to work against Russia for Polish independence.

Do you think that could have worked?
pawian 173 | 12,567
24 Jun 2020 #114
You haven't done so. Now you dishing excuses.

You are denying everything what you aren`t able to accept like a spoilt kindergarten kid. No because no. Let it be, I don`t care. :):):)

So he wanted to ally with Russia first to take over occupied Polish lands from the Germans

He was very naive thinking that Russia would allow Poland to regain these lands and not demand anything in return. His naivety was proven later on, during WW2 when Germany and USSR partitioned Poland and after WW2, when Poland received ex-German territories and had to rely on Soviet Russian protection to keep them.

Dmowski`s dreams of alliance were worthless.

Bu he was certainly a patriot who contributed to Polish independence in 1918.
Ironside 49 | 10,452
24 Jun 2020 #115
You are denying everything what you aren`t able to accept like a spoilt kindergarten ki

Another excuse. Have you provided anything conclusive some quote or some such that would support your claim? No! You simply repeat silly 'sanacyjna' propaganda. As i said you sound more and mora as a con artist.
Spike31 3 | 1,813
25 Jun 2020 #116
Do you think that could have worked?

We will never know that. He has correctly predicted that there will be a clash between Germany and Russia. And also an inevitable collapse of Russia which ended in the Bolshevik revolution.

Germany has helped the soviet revolution to happen by safely transporting Lenin to Russia during WWI to drown it in the fire of revolution. And to eliminate Russia from participating in the war which was a success. Thanks to that move Germany and Austria have almost won WWI on the continent.

dw.com/en/how-germany-got-the-russian-revolution-off-the-ground/a-41195312
call1n 2 | 143
30 Jun 2020 #117
All the allegations made by Dmowski against Jews is all true.Why does some magic happen when someone utters the words "anti-Semite" and no one evaluates if it is true or not?
pawian 173 | 12,567
30 Jun 2020 #118
Dmowski`s anitsemitism was obsessive. He even gave up some Polish territory to avoid having too big Jewish minority in newly independent Poland. After the Polish Bolshevik war Poland negotiated a treaty with Soviets. Dmowski`s influence led to the loss of Mińsk area, inhabited by many Poles.

Iron, why don`t you admit Dmowski was a traitor to Polish interests, according to your logic?
Ironside 49 | 10,452
30 Jun 2020 #119
Dmowski`s anitsemitism was obsessive.

You mean compulsive, denominating ? In that case you are talking BS as per usual. It is rather you going around calling people anti-Semities and dissing them have more to do with an obsessions not facts.

His stance on Jews was a matter of principle and circumstance. Not driven by prejudices or emotions.

Iron, why don`t you admit Dmowski was a traitor to Polish interests, according to your logic?

You don't understand logic. Beside it wasn't Dmowski that negotiated. Also, we don't know reasons, and if it i as you say that was a mistake. Considering that right after that Poland accepted about one million refugees from Soviets' (Russian Jews) into Poland.

If that was the reason it was pointless. Somehow I doubt it.
call1n 2 | 143
1 Jul 2020 #120
Poland accepted about one million refugees from Soviets' (Russian Jews) into Poland.

wHAT DO YOU THINK OF STALIN'S JEWISH DOCTOR CONSPIRACY?

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