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Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite?


DariuszTelka 5 | 193
27 Nov 2010 #61
Gumishu: Of course! I'm not denying that the jews were not persecuted. I've stated this in many previous posts. They were among all the millions that perished in the concentration camps, internement camps, prisons, work programs and relocation that the Germans forced on the people they did see a future with. With Poles, Norwegians, Swedes, Dutch, British, Gypsies, homosexuals...

But my question is how they can just change the numbers like this and there is no revision of any sort. If the official number of deaths at Auschwitz were set to be 6 million, and they now say it's 1 million, it has to have some kind of reaction. For gods sake...it's 5 million people who are not accounted for! And the fact that so many stories were found out to be fabrications, like the lamp-shades made of jewish skin, the soap made of jewish fat, the forgery in paintings made after the war and displayed as "real" in museums and galleries, pictures that were cropped, altered and remade with false objects inserted, false stories by survivors, tortured Germans who falsely admitted to atrocities they did not commit, the fact that the gas chamber in Auschwitz was built up after the war, that they have not found any pits of bodies, no cremation site, no evidence of mass graves, no photos of anything, not even Hitlers signature on any paper. Churchill didn't mention the holocaust in his memoirs, the red cross did not mention it in their reports during the war, the British bombers did not see anything when they flew over the camps taking detailed pictures. Even Simon Wiesenthal has been caught lying on many occations about the camps, the murders and how he could see what nationality the jews who were burned in the ovens had, by the colour of the smoke that came out of the chimneys! But still the 6 million number stands.

But again, for jonni, or anyone else. I DON'T DENY THE HOLOCAUST, as a organized process of pushing the jews out of Germany's sphere of power. With brutal force. But the numbers just don't add up, and as long as the lies just keep on coming up and the facts don't support the claims...then I feel there should be a revison of the whole story.

The reason I care is because our countries still pay money to victims, survivors, upkeep of museums, trips, movies, theatre plays, books, school tours etc. Especially Poland is always connected to this insanity. This morbid tale of lies. It has to stop. It's an industry. Just read Normal Finkelsteins book on the subject. The Holocaust Industry.

Added note: And the fact that if you even QUESTION any of these inaccuracies, you will BE JAILED FOR YEARS for "Denying the Holocaust" in many European countries. Dozens of scholars, professors, historians and just normal people who stood up are sitting behind bars....which goes against all our rights of freedom of speech and the right to question our history. Imagine if we couldn't question the "fact" that the Katyn murders were done by the Russian and not the Germans? If people would go to jail for questioning this...how unfair wouldn't that be? If noone could question any "dogma" or what is written in our history books?

DariuszTelka
sobieski 107 | 2,128
27 Nov 2010 #62
The Old Marshal would spit on you. If there was any clearcut symbol of Polish fascism it was Dmowski.You have no relatives in the Świeokrzyskie Brigade?

The Old Marshal stood for a cosmopolitan idea of Central Europe. A Mitteleuropa which has vanished. He also saved Europe from the Bolsheviks. Dmowski was just a Polish fascist.

The Old Marshal was a plain heroe.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
1 Dec 2010 #63
International Red Cross estimated total dead from all causes at Auschwitz to be 47,000.
jonni 16 | 2,485
1 Dec 2010 #64
Sources? Preferably the originals!
OP PennBoy 76 | 2,437
16 Jun 2011 #65
His unfinished career





Piłsudski was far more friendly to the Jews.

Pilsudski didn't look at ethnicity as did Dmowski, he wanted all Polish citizens regardless of ethnicity to be Polish and love the nation.
archiwum 13 | 125
16 Feb 2013 #66
Another man's futune is another man's poison!
Ihatechicago
21 Sep 2014 #67
Check out some of the things Dmowski wrote - nastiness drips off the pages.

Sir,are you jewish?You outright dismiss every Polish claim and opinion and at the same time take jewish claims without any criticism at all.Lets see what Booker Washington, a prominent Black American leader and a representative of the last generation of Blacks born in slavery who visited Poland in 1910 had to say about situation of Polish people living under economic hardship caused by jews:

"wherever in Poland money changes hands a Jew is always there to take charge of it. In fact, it seemed to me that the Jew in Poland was almost like the money he handled, a sort of medium of exchange."

He noted that his Jewish guide "looked down upon and despised" the Polish peasants among whom he traded. He referred to them as "ignorant and dirty creatures." He also observed that, unlike Jewish immigrants who came to America:

"Instead of seeking to make themselves look like the rest of the people among whom they live, they seem to be making every effort to preserve and emphasize the characters in which they are different from the people around them."

Mr.Washington concluded that:

"that was much the same life (of Polish people) that I had known and lived among the Negro farmers in Alabama. ... I am convinced that any one who studies the movements and progress of the Negroes in America will find much that is interesting by way of comparison in the present situation of the Polish people and that of the American Negroes."

Obviously according to your twisted logic must have been an anti semite?Obviously the "chosen nation" (that itself is pretty RACIST) can't do and never done wrong.Am I right?

source:Booker T. Washington, with the collaboration of Robert E. Park, The Man Farthest Down: A Record of Observation and Study in Europe (Garden City, New York: Doubleday, Page & Company, 1912; New Brunswick, New Jersey: Transaction Books, 1984), 252, 257, 267-69, 291-94.

"Obviously according to your twisted logic must have been an anti semite?" this should be:
Obviously according to your twisted logic Mr.Booker must have been an anti semite?
jon357 63 | 15,214
22 Sep 2014 #68
Mr.Booker must have been an anti semite?

Not much doubt that his chum RE Park was. And Dmowski was quite open about it.
books.google.co.uk/books?isbn=0762310111
americanjewisharchives.org

Am I right?

No
Ihatechicago
22 Sep 2014 #69
some degree of protectionism sounds seductively appealing - but on the grounds of race or religion?

No.On the base of nationality.If you knew anything about the subject you would know that Jews in Poland were basically a nation within a nation.

I noticed that you avoided answering whether you are Jewish.You don't need to answer as this is obvious.

Not much doubt that his chum RE Park was

We are discussing Booker Washington,no?Anyway even if Robert Park was indeed an anti semite does it mean that Washington lied about what he saw and heard?
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
29 Jan 2018 #70
Merged:

Roman Dmowski being re-examined



In the light of the emergence of a new-found nationalism throughout Europe, on the heels of slow burning disillusionment with misguided liberal policies, the early 20th century Polish politician and nationalist theorist, Roman Dmowski, is now being looked at in a new, if alarmingly, positive light.

A recent article in our local Polish journal "Nowy Dziennik", seemed to omit mention of his once infamous "Kwestia Zydowska" (The Jewish Question) and treated his clear anti-Semitism along with pro-Polophilism and the need for a strong Catholic Poland, with a somewhat objective, dispassionate resignation.

Any comments from the group?
Bieganski 17 | 901
29 Jan 2018 #71
In light of the new law in Poland - which Israel is staunchly opposing because it will block their rent-seeking attempts to shakedown Poland for reparations - you are just changing your tactics on here in an obvious attempt to still falsely blame the Polish state for Nazi war crimes.

Dmowski was after all a member of the Duma and Minister for Foreign Affairs. You are just trying to build a case that Poland was anti-Semitic prior to the Nazi invasion and this is what aided the building and running of Nazi concentration camps on Polish soil.

You are wrong and will be in violation of the new law.

If you genuinely had a problem with nationalist sentiment at all then you would be attacking the most racist, criminal, sinister, pernicious, and deadly form of it called Zionism which has infiltrated and infected politicians across Europe and the Western world ever since the end of WWII and allowed serial offender Israel to get away with human rights violations and war crimes.
G (undercover)
29 Jan 2018 #72
Dmowski, next to Piłsudski, was the greatest Polish politician of the early 20th century. What's more to add here ?
Bieganski 17 | 901
29 Jan 2018 #73
Indeed G. If he was so bad towards Jews then why didn't they leave en masse?

They didn't and in fact their numbers increased dramatically.

In 1900 the Jewish population in Poland was 1.3 million.

Dmowski entered the Duma in 1907.

Dmowski died in 1939.

By 1942 the Jewish population in Poland reached 3 million.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
29 Jan 2018 #74
Dmowski was after all a member of the Duma

Quite, which shows him to be a disgraceful collaborationist.

You are wrong and will be in violation of the new law.

You seem obsessed with this new law. Is it because you're so much of a coward that you can't wait to spend your days reporting imaginary crimes on the internet?
Bieganski 17 | 901
29 Jan 2018 #75
You seem terrified by the new law. Good, rightfully so.

And the only cowards who have dedicated their lives to reporting imaginary crimes have been the Holocaust fakers (and not just the ones on here trying to falsely blame Poland for atrocities committed by Nazi Germany).

Could there be anything more twisted than these Holocaust fantasists? How more and more people are making up memoirs about witnessing Nazi crimes

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2346193/Could-twisted-holocaust-fantasists-How-people-making-memoirs-witnessing-Nazi-crimes.html

Exclusive: Holocaust Faker Speaks Out

abcnews.go.com/GMA/US/story?id=6903068

Man who claimed to have escaped Auschwitz admits he lied for years

theguardian.com/world/2016/jun/24/holocaust-survivor-lied-joseph-hirt-auschwitz
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
29 Jan 2018 #76
You seem terrified by the new law. Good, rightfully so.

Not at all, because as we can see, Poland is already furiously backtracking after even the Americans got involved. It's laughable.

Still, may I remind you that Holocaust denial remains an offence in Poland.
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
29 Jan 2018 #77
@Bieganski,

I'm not "guilty" of much of anything, other than expressing my concern, at least my observation, that the article which I read was strangely uncritical of Dmowski.

Don't know where on G_d's Green Earth you get that I'm somehow linking Dmowski with "Polish Concentration Camps" or post-War anti-Jewish hostility et al. but I think you ought to be examined, personally:-)
Ironside 49 | 10,316
29 Jan 2018 #78
hat the article which I read was strangely uncritical of Dmowski.

Why would it be critical? A minster in Israeli gov today right now talk insulting BS about Polish people and he lies about his family to slander Poland and here ... he is still a cabinet member and no apologies has been issued. WTF? Are you about Lzyko?

Take a hike!
Lyzko 25 | 7,139
29 Jan 2018 #79
Likewise, Ironside! Is that how you answer a debate topic by responding "Take a hike!"? Pretty sophomoric, I must say.

You clearly missed my point that the article by a well-known Polish historian, I take it, presented a very clear overview of the man and his career, yet offered no opinion concerning some of Dmowski's clear anti-Jewish bias, that's all.

Why such umbrage?
johnny reb 23 | 4,538
29 Jan 2018 #80
Any comments from the group?

Naw, we are getting worn out by the every day Jewish banging here.
Time to get over yourselves like everyone else has that has been slighted by the world.
Time to forgive and forget and move on.
Anybody new that comes here would think the name of this forum should be, "The Jewish Polish Forum".
Bieganski 17 | 901
30 Jan 2018 #81
may I remind you that Holocaust denial remains an offence in Poland.

And the new law will give it even more scope. And that means you will need to self-police your public and online behavior even more closely or the Polish authorities will send the real police after you. And yeah there is an extradition agreement between Poland, Britain and many other countries. Heck, even if you fled to your favorite country America there would be no hiding for you there. I'm sure Poland would even readily cough up Polanski to them if it meant getting you extradited and the first one convicted under the new law.

strangely uncritical of Dmowski.

Only a Zionist propagandist like yourself would believe that every article about Dmowski should be critical while every article about Jews and Israel should be uncritical.

You hate nationalism in Europe (and Poland in particular) because there is no worship of Israel and the Jews by the average citizen; unlike how it is in your Zionist American homeland.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
30 Jan 2018 #82
And that means you will need to self-police your public and online behavior even more closely or the Polish authorities will send the real police after you.

You seem obsessed. Fortunately, you don't make Polish law, nor do you have a say in it, being a Canadian with no connection to Poland.

And yeah there is an extradition agreement between Poland, Britain and many other countries

No court is ever going to extradite someone to Poland based on "he said she said". Many European courts have already thrown out Polish extradition cases in the past based on unreliable evidence, and the same will happen here.
Bieganski 17 | 901
30 Jan 2018 #83
Fortunately, you don't make Polish law, nor do you have a say in it

Oh, listen to you, the highly influential political lobbyist in Poland. Okay! Well, if you really need to play make-believe then you should just stick to the "good non-binary stuff" your queer cohort offered to send you for use in your lowly job as a classroom teacher's aide.

No court is ever going to extradite someone to Poland based on "he said she said". Many European courts have already thrown out Polish extradition cases in the past...

The neo-liberal order of the late 20th century you were indoctrinated into and foolishly believed would last forever is already on its deathbed. Its obituary will be one of derision and shame.

It's a very topsy-turvy world nowadays for lefties like yourself. The tide has turned and it is a rip current.

Courts are being rapidly reformed in Poland and abroad and tenured and crony judges with liberal activist and once-upon-a-time card-carrying communist credentials are finally dying off and being replaced by younger conservative minds inspired by the likes of Dmowski and Piłsudski.

In the very near future when Poland talks, other nations will not only listen but comply.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
30 Jan 2018 #84
Well, if you really need to play make-believe then you should just stick to the "good non-binary stuff" your queer cohort offered to send you for use in your lowly job as a classroom teacher's aide.

What makes me laugh so much is knowing how powerless you are. All you can do is seethe, while I have free reign to teach children what I wish. I particularly enjoy teaching children to be tolerant towards others, because it infuriates basement conservatives like you so much.

In the very near future when Poland talks, other nations will not only listen but comply.

My, that's one big delusion that you're suffering from there. The more likely scenario is that Poland, with her absence of domestic industry and absence of domestic companies on the world scale, will be told what to do and Poland will do it. Rather like now, in fact. Some of us quite enjoy enlightening students as to the pathetically weak geopolitical power of Poland, too.
johnny reb 23 | 4,538
30 Jan 2018 #85
because it infuriates basement conservatives like you so much.

No, what infuriates us Christian Conservatives is the Commie Progressive Liberal Teachers who tell our children that Mommies can have penises and that there is no God.
Bieganski 17 | 901
30 Jan 2018 #86
while I have free reign to teach children what I wish...I particularly enjoy teaching children to be tolerant towards others

You are deluding yourself. A true sufferer of megalomania.

Free reign over children? So creepy. The sort of character who makes that kind of remark gets identified later by multiple victims and named in crime reports and court testimonies.

You certainly don't teach tolerance. Your far-flung leftwing ideological posts on here over the years prove that. You have no tolerance because you oppose everything the majority of Poles value which is conservative in nature; especially at the ballot box.

You don't inspire others either. Your antagonistic behavior simply motivates others to dig in deeper and hold on tighter to what they know is true in their hearts and minds.

Some of us quite enjoy enlightening students as to the pathetically weak geopolitical power of Poland

And yet you hypocritically claim to live in Poland.

But as usual you don't know what you are talking about. Gates of Vienna ring a bell? And tell us about those quota demands mad cow Merkel was trying to impose on Poland. Did Poland exceed the goal set by Brussels and Berlin or did Poland tell them to stuff it and stuff it hard?

Poland has obviously had a major influence on its neighbors and other countries around the world. Not just demographically but politically, economically and militarily as well.

Like many countries Poland has been a victim of aggression from other nations and has actually had more victories than defeats over the centuries.

But unlike other countries Poland has emerged three times while retaining her character, language and traditions.

No country can achieve that if they are a "pathetically weak geopolitical power."

If you really knew anything about geopolitics you'd have known that the Soviets created Belarus and Ukraine. Not just due to linguistic or theocratic traditions. Not just to get more votes in the UN either. But to keep a military buffer between Russia proper and Poland. That's why when the Soviet Union broke up Belarus and Ukraine remained independent. That's why Russia keeps Kaliningrad heavily armed. Russia doesn't trust Poland because Russia fears Poland.

Anyway, students today aren't "enlightened" by the likes of you. Children and their parents are savvy enough to know that in order to pass a class you just have to tell the "those who can't, teach" crowd you belong to exactly what you want to hear in the classroom.

Outside of the classroom children always align with the beliefs, values and norms of their home, community and peers.

You're a loner in Poland who can't speak Polish. So believe me when I tell you that you have no credibility. Especially with children who look for role models they can relate to.

You are just filling a job no Pole would take due to the low pay, no advancement opportunities, and no influence.
Wulkan - | 3,251
30 Jan 2018 #87
Dmowski, next to Piłsudski, was the greatest Polish politician of the early 20th century. What's more to add here ?

Indeed, he was also a role model to any patriot.
SigSauer 4 | 413
30 Jan 2018 #88
@delphiandomine

I'm a bit disappointed with you. Just when I thought we had found common ground, you cant help yourself but to go and make some rather childish pedantic comments. I can't tell whether you just took the bait, or whether you actually believe that tripe you wrote. Your job educating my children is not to imbibe them with your own morals, world view, or ideology, that's MY job. You have a lesson plan to follow, and that doesn't include your own underdeveloped and poorly thought out political philosophy. I really hope you didn't mean what you said, because I would hope that my kids teachers have more pure motivations than trying to jam a thumb in the eye of conservatives. I understand your yearning to assert some power over your life and your position, but having that manifest through the indoctrination of children is simply unacceptable mate. I think you realize that, and upon further reflection I hope that you will retract those statements made in haste and error.

@Bieganski

I agree with much of what you said, certainly with regard to the blow back of radical left policies and how they are helping to fuel the far-right, not to quell it. However, I must take issue with something you said, and maybe you can clarify what you actually meant afterwards. Ukraine was not 'created' by the USSR, Kyiv predates Moscow by 500 years, and Ukrainian language is unique, melodic, and beautiful. Ukrainian culture is distinct from Russia, and Ukraine has undergone many of the same struggles as Poland over the years, only Ukraine is still fighting its battle from within and without. I'd also have to say that Russia most certainly does not fear Poland, they may fear NATO, but they're currently invading the country with the largest standing army in the entire continent and seem to be none too deterred. Purely on the sheer quantity of equipment, there isn't much of a match. Russia's biggest fear is to have a functioning, successful democratic state with a high standard of living on its borders. This is one of the reasons that Putin cannot allow Ukraine to reform its state and enter the European economic market, and one of the reasons Miinsk 2 tried to push for a federalized Ukraine. Anyway, just to be clear, I assume you were referring to the fact that the USSR established the Ukrainian SSR as a buffer to the west, which is completely true, I just didn't want your post to read like Ukrainian people were some artificial creation of a bunch of drunk Russians eating polmeny all day.
dolnoslask 5 | 2,889
30 Jan 2018 #89
. Your job educating my children is not to imbibe them with your own morals

The answer is to educate your children to beware of teachers in the same way as you would warn them about strangers, many have political agendas and this is not a new thing, I had a history teacher in the 70's who decided to omit the fact that the Soviets jointly started WWII with Germany, he just chose to talk about them as any other allied country, of course I put the little bearded leather arm patched trotsky in his place.
Atch 17 | 3,224
30 Jan 2018 #90
I would say that the answer is to educate your children to question things, look to a variety of sources for the answers and to be independent thinkers who form their own opinions, rather than simply accepting one source as the authority. But you need to be aware that if you do so, you will have to deal with the fact that they will also question YOU and be ready to accept the fact that their views may be different to your own.


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