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What do Poles think about Turks?


Marek 4 | 867
19 May 2008 #121
Thanks, Bratwurst Boy!! -:)-:) LOL ......for nothing. Or I should add... 'Thanks for the flowers! (Danke fuer die Blumen!)

Of course I understand the kind of rot expressed in the prejudiced newspaper media!! 'Terror auf der Strassse...' but 'terror from whom'?? From the Skinhead sorts such as the type you seem to side with or from the reluctant bi-products (inner-city Turkish-Germans living as US blacks must have lived during the 70's here at home!) of a multi-cultural experiment gone bad? I agree. It's hard to live in a salad bowl.....but sometimes that's what's on the menu ..and if you don't eat it, (not necessarily like it..) you'll starve.

Just some advice!
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
19 May 2008 #122
the kind of rot expressed in the prejudiced newspaper media

Yeah....sure...."rot from the prejudiced newspaper"! Man you have no idea! Your advices are sh*t and we did put up with it for far to long...you will see!
Marek 4 | 867
19 May 2008 #123
I will freely admit to you that Germany, for that matter any European nation, is not the kind of 'Schmelztiegel' (melting pot) the US has become. Nonetheless, as Germany's past is particularly fraught with the pitfalls of mad plunges into racist savagery, she must be ever vigilant against this kind of xenophobia (Fremdenhass). We too are scarcely strangers to this sort of racism, though perhaps hardly as extreme in its manifestations (Hassausschreitungen).

Be mindful especially of the dangers in 'historical relativism' (Revisionismus). The Shoah was unique, albeit the potential for such Holocausts lies within all of us.

PS
'Advice' has no plural form in English. (he-he!) -:)-:) LOL
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 May 2008 #124
The potential for Holocausts lies within us all? Please elaborate
Marek 4 | 867
19 May 2008 #125
Seanus,

Simply that while the European Shoah against, above all the Jews, was unparalleled in its systematic cruelty, such urges are hardly uniquely German.
Look at Poland, why don't you! The Kielce Pogroms occurred against Polish-Jewish citizens returning home to their villages AFTER the end of the War. They were massacred in the streets, practically.

Such atrocities never happened in Germany or even in Austria!
Seanus 15 | 19,706
19 May 2008 #126
Bad blood was still flowing, that was done in rage. Although I don't defend it, I can understand it, and that counts
Marek 4 | 867
20 May 2008 #127
Sorry, Seanus. Can't quite catch your drift, I'm afraid. Are you suggesting that somehow the innocent slaughter of returning Jews to their Polish villages after the end of WW II was justified???!

I'm probably missing the point. Kindly illuminate.

PS
What d'you mean exactly by 'bad blood was still flowing'? The issue of Polish anti-semitism is cut and dried, as far as most people are concerned, save a few fringe loonies on the far right. Or are you simply peddling us this 'left-wing dominance' baloney!!!??
Seanus 15 | 19,706
20 May 2008 #128
It was symptomatic of the times, bad blood was abound. It was by no means in short supply but such displays of anti-semitism by true Poles was not as rampant as u surmise.

I said I don't defend such killings and am not even gonna attempt to justify it. BTW, what does this have to do with Turks?
Marek 4 | 867
21 May 2008 #129
It has little to do with the present day tensions concerning Turks who dwell in the Federal Republic of Germany along with other countries. It does though have a lot to do with a racist disguised as morally relativist slant these days which attempts to explain, indeed rationalize or justify, obscenely blatant acts of prejudice for which no reason could ever justify such actions!

Granted, most Poles, for that matter, Europeans, prior to the start of WW II were by and large lower middle class to poor. Jews however, owing to the deep anti-Jewish sentiment on the part of the Catholic Church in Europe, were not allowed for centuries to join guilds, become soldiers, own honest businesses, farm etc. compared to their gentile neighbors. The only recourse left to many, unfortunately, was money-lending, heretofore forbidden for Christians.

As a result, when Christians returned from wars and plagues had ravished their communities, those of the Jews were almost unscathed....because they lived in ghettoes, removed from the Christian centers, by local laws. And so they retained their properties when many gentiles had lost theirs, giving the false impression to the Christians that the Jews had somehow 'stolen' their lands, holdings etc.

Patently untrue, the image lasted.
Jukrek - | 58
21 May 2008 #130
as to Jews in our part of Europe in the past
youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc

youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw

and poor Poles



I wouldn't call Jews middle class :) after this clips we know why so many of them were commies ... commies were against rich :) so comapriosn to turks is good one.

we have different history books in Poland than you in USA. You know when we google "Jew" we have results when you google "Jew" in USA you don't see results but informaton that it is not good word. It has something to do with it.
Marek 4 | 867
21 May 2008 #131
Anti-semitism has deep roots in Poland's history. For example, in slang Polish, 'żydówka' means '*****' (kurwa), not only 'Jewess'.

'We have different history books in Poland.'...

...You sure do, namely,.......teaching wrong history!!-:)-:) LOL
Jukrek - | 58
21 May 2008 #132
Anti-semitism has deep roots in Poland's history. For example, in slang Polish, 'żydówka' means '*****' (kurwa), not only 'Jewess'.

I live in Poland and I haven't heard that "Żydówka means Kurwa"

I know that when you call sb Żyd it means that he is scrooge. That is all.

Tell me Marek why in USA when you google "Jew" you have information that it is bad word and you can't see researche results.

and in Poland when you google "Jew" you have normal results.

in some way USA is similar to China their google version is censored as well ... and your stories about Jews are "charming" but don't show whole picture.

And If Jews were so rich in this part of europe so many of them wouldn't be commies and wouldn't cooperate with commies.

(move about Russian Jews)
youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc

-:)

and Warsaw
Marek 4 | 867
21 May 2008 #133
'Commies'?? Do you mean 'Communists' perhaps?? You've got the same problem as everyone else in Europe; you know the right slang, but not the correct standard! If anything, why not then 'pinko commies' while you're at it.-:)-:) LOL Incidentally, I'll correct other errors at a later time.
osiol 55 | 3,922
21 May 2008 #134
'Commies'

I remember seeing an Atlas when I was little. Somewhere within the USSR was quite a large place called Komi ASSR. I thought to myself "Wow! They must be really communist commies in that bit!" Okay, so actually I didn't.
Marek 4 | 867
21 May 2008 #135
As in 'Kommissar'??? LOL Good one, Osiol. -:)

By the by, I didn't mean to nitpick with my corrections. I only trust that the younger Poles out there are as intent on improving their English as we outsiders are on improving ,i.e. 'polishing', our Polish. that's all.

Na zdrowie, towaryszy!
southern 75 | 7,096
21 May 2008 #136
Personally I would be glad if there were no Turks around.
Marek 4 | 867
22 May 2008 #137
'Your stories about Jews are "charming", but they don't tell the whole picture...'

No, you're right, they don't. I forgot to mention that the thankless history of the Jews throughout much of world history has been one of tragic misunderstandings based on nothing other than unenlightened prejudice, much of which could have easily been avoided if only the Jews had been allowed a place alongside their non-Jewish, not necessarily Christian, brethren!

Only a dyed-in-the-wool idiot believes that any race or nationality is essentially bad! There are always reasons for the perceived behaviours of others, not the least of which are frequently, indeed usually, economic circumstances which motivate people's reactions, be they Poles, Russians, Germans, what have you.
Jukrek - | 58
22 May 2008 #138
Marek

google "Polin jewish paradise"

Yes Poland was called Jewish paradise ... some of your statements are untrue.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
22 May 2008 #139
German police takes the p*ss out of a Turk :):):)
espana 17 | 910
22 May 2008 #140
youtube.com/watch?v=VcM4s9x_wZM

they are not hiting him ,,,,,,,,,why is funny? this one is more funny
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,363
22 May 2008 #142
they are not hiting him ,,,,,,,,,why is funny?

Hey...they made him dance! :)

Gypsies in Warsaw

The italians seem to have enough of them...
independent.co.uk/news/europe/italian-tolerance-goes-up-in-smoke-as-gypsy-camp-is-burnt-to-ground-829318.html
PolishXBarbie 3 | 50
22 May 2008 #143
Oh i love turkish people =) I love serdar oc. and hepsi and ya I listen to the music alot =) and the food is wounderful. So overall a very fun and interesting culture. And overall the men are pretty sexy =) I know recently alot of turkish men date polish girls lol
Jukrek - | 58
22 May 2008 #144
The Italians seem to have enough of them...

Czechs and Slovaks (not Poles) used to sterilize Gypsies during communism. Now Gypsies form Romania conquer Italy.

Some Gypsy women in Czech Republic have come out against forced sterilizations.

eeuropeanhistory.suite101.com/blog.cfm/roma_sterilization_in_east_europe

iht.com/articles/ap/2007/10/12/europe/EU-GEN-Czech-Gypsy-Sterilization.php

There are no accurate numbers of how many of the Czech Republic's 200,000 to 250,000 Gypsies have been sterilized, but human rights activists estimate that hundreds of women, if not more, could be affected.

Marek 4 | 867
23 May 2008 #145
Jukrek,

In terms of raw population figures, there were physically more Jews living in what is today Poland than anywhere else in Europe, perhaps the rest of the world at the time, with the possible exception of Wilnus and Kowno in Lithuania.

The word 'paradise' poses problems. It suggests that, as in Weimar Germany during the 1920's, the Jews somehow were living in a perfect society; accepted, assimilated and compeltely without peril. The picture is rather, especially in Poland, that the Jews were living in a fool's paradise, mostly unassimilated, they were allowed to remain in Poland, in their crowded shtettls, because they were of monetary value to the Polish government. Indeed, they were numerous, yet there was ALWAYS the undercurrent of bigotry and hatred, same as everywhere in Europe, except perhaps for the Scandinavian countries, whose Jews were so few, or even Ireland!
southern 75 | 7,096
23 May 2008 #146
Jews

the Jews

that the Jews

whose Jews were

I thought the topic was about Turks.How could the Jews blend again inside?
Marek 4 | 867
23 May 2008 #147
Southern,

Bigotry against one group is really bigotry against all groups!! -:)
Jukrek - | 58
23 May 2008 #148
Marek

Answer for question if Jews are fool or not ... I leave for other PF members.

Maybe they were fool that they called Poland their paradise ...

Maybe you are right that so antisemitic Poles accepted the biggest European Jewish society in Poland.

Maybe you are right that Scandinavians and Germans were so tolerant that Jews preferred to settle in antisemitic Poland.

Maybe you are right that Poland was not perfect especially when we notice that Jews achieved full rights in USA after WWII (like blacks).

Stupid Jews

as to Jewish assimilation ...

some were assimilated some were not.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_Jews

From the Middle Ages until the Holocaust, Jews comprised a significant part of the Polish population. The Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, known as a "Jewish paradise" for its religious tolerance, attracted numerous Jews who fled persecution from other European countries, even though, at times, discrimination against Jews surfaced as it did elsewhere in Europe. Poland was a major spiritual and cultural center for Ashkenazi Jewry,

:(((((((((((

Karl Radek (1885-1939), Bolshevik politician

Jakub Berman (1901-1984), Polish communist, Secretary of PUWP (Polish United Workers' Party)

Józef Światło (1915-1975), colonel, communist, spy

(in post communist party)

Marek Borowski (b. 1946), Polish politician, a speaker of the Sejm

:))))))))))))))))

Berek Joselewicz (1764-1809), colonel during Kościuszko Uprising and Napoleonic wars

Szymon Aszkenazy, Polish historian

Gustaw Herling-Grudziński, writer

Tamara de Lempicka, painter (Jewish mother)

Daniel Libeskind, architect

How it is possible that some could make career some couldn't ? Maybe situation is similar to blacks in USA ? Or Turks in Germany ? Arabs in France ?

thous who wanted to integrate had possibility. Those who didn't want were living like those Jews form "fiddler on the roof"

youtube.com/watch?v=RBHZFYpQ6nc
Avalon 4 | 1,068
23 May 2008 #149
Every day when I take my dog for a walk around the lakes and the forest, I look at the trees, smell the fresh air, gaze at the birds flying and swimming on the lake and I think to myself, I wonder what the Turks are doing at this moment in time........duh
Marek 4 | 867
23 May 2008 #150
The examples whom you've cited, Jukrek, suggests that your research is at best incomplete, at worst, horribly skewed! Aside from that, I fear you also misunderstood the expression 'a fool's paradise', then again, English is a second language for you, as, for that matter, Polish is for me.

In English, 'a fool's paradise' comes, I believe, from Milton's "Paradise Lost" and refers to Lucifer's fall from grace. Then again, it may refer to the imaginary Land of Cocknaigne, where noone has to work and red wine runs freely from the streams, cooked pheasant hangs from trees!

You mean, not that the Jews themselves were fools, but surely, that they foolishly deluded themselves into believing that any European country would be an eternal safe haven from anti-semitism.

The Turkish question is more complicated. There is again that 'little' issue of the still officially denied Massacre of the Armenians....solely because they were Christians who did not accept Islam. -:)-:)


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