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20 years of Poland in the EU.


Ironside 50 | 12,467
7 Jun 2024 #91
So?

So, they corrupt morons like Tusk or Kaczynski into some agreements that are celery disadvantageous to Poland's economy, and on top of it, we are su[[ored to pay for the privilege of using oxygen from the air.

Look Torq, I could go on about green policies, economic policies, agricultural policies, and countless regulations, but you know all this. Now you don't remember anything out of the blue and talk rubbish about how good to be for Poland.

It was good and it was a good opportunity but it is not any longer and it doesn't get better. simple.
What the hell you don't understand?
Funny thing, your outlook might be more closer to Kaczynski's than you think. lol!
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f the leftist agenda

It is not a leftist agenda anymore it is the mainstream of the EU agenda now. Already put in motion.
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Polexit is always an option.

Not really. On the other hand, sometimes damage can be irreversible.
Polexit need to be prepared now and needs to be used to get our point across in Brussels otherwise they think they can walk over Poland like a doormat.

I know how they think you don't.

Nothing shocking about this

Sure but as soon as some obscure company loses in a free market economy to a Polish one you all Germans are going into a panic mode!
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
7 Jun 2024 #92
I'd argue that concern over the loss of competivness through undercutting of standards is something that drives all governments. And indeed, that may become particulary thorny issue between Poland and Ukraine once the latter joins the EU and the free market.
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #93
Just an inevitable result of having an economy that suffered from 45 years of communist rule

Not 'inevitable' and in any case, a large part of Germany was Communist.

One side has a result wealthy investors, the other side has not

In which case, it is incumbent on people's elected representatives to mitigate this, and of course the Polish economy had grown to a point where it is appropriate that the situation begins to reverse.

as soon as some obscure company loses in a free market economy to a Polish one you all Germans are going into a panic mode!

This sometimes happens. Not just regarding Polish investors either. A few years ago, a large German company was taken over by a British company and there were howls of outrage and calls for their government to intervene. So e media commentators even claimed that it was not 'correct' for a German company to be taken over by a foreign one and that it was only 'correct' for the opposite to happen.
Ironside 50 | 12,467
7 Jun 2024 #94
that it was not 'correct' for a German company to be taken over by a foreign one and that it was only 'correct' for the opposite to happen.

Then they are surprised that their companies lose competitiveness. The EU should be about a level playing field not sneaky behind curtains sinister corrupt actions and bureaucratic barriers.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #95
You have no idea how many EU-Europeans agree with you, Iron!

The best and probably the only way is to make the EU so that they fit you....from the INSIDE!

After a Polexit Poland will have so much influence in Brussels as London has now, zero!!!

That's how these things work...there is no other way....so, vote for politicians who can move things IN the EU. Voting instead for ones who only ever fights the EU, wants Poland out, is not helping Poland at all. Logical, right?

Even Orban doesn't want out, instead he uses his vote to annoy EU-politicians mightily....with that he has so much power in Brussels! Since many decisions need unanimity he can block and sway things he doesn't like. Hungary out of the EU would have a very quiet voice only...he would achieve NOTHING!
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
7 Jun 2024 #96
@jon357

Not 'inevitable' and in any case, a large part of Germany was Communist

1/4 of it was and it seems to me that most German investors in Poland are from West Germany. Miele, Bosch, Mercedes ALDI just to name a few.

it is incumbent on people's elected representatives to mitigate this

Accumulating money takes time. And I am sure it would go well amongst the Polish public if the government decides: "Here Company X, you get a tax write-off, invest the money into Germany so that we can balance the investments".

Given that Germany has currently a problem to attract foreign investors, with many domestic investors instead investing into foreign markets, I fail to see the problem for Poland here. Be happy that you are a target for investments and suffering from capital flight.

This sometimes happens.

Do you really want to pretend that this kind of concern is unique to Germans? A quick search reveals tons of articles describing risks and concerns regarding the take-over of British companies by foreign investors. Sometimes those concerns are legitimate, especially when it can mean the loss of a strategic industry.

As for newspapers engaging in xenophobic scaremongering against foreign competitors... That is really thin ice here.
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #97
The EU should be about a level playing field not sneaky behind curtains sinister corrupt actions and bureaucratic barriers.

Absolutely.

The French are finding that out to their cost since Brexit. All those state tenders they underbid other companies for with the intention of not delivering what they promised and using pressure to get funding from the U.K. government. Now their ability to put pressure on has vanished and they're being held to their contracts, penalty clauses and all.

London

It works two ways; Brussels has zero influence in London, and at the same time voters in mainland Europe see that all the dire predictions of worsening standards of living etc never came true. Apparently two EU countries are screaming in anger that new companies are listing their shares in London and that the pound is strong; and they can do nothing about it.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #98
A quick search reveals tons of articles describing risks and concerns regarding the take-over of British companies by foreign investors.

.....and we all dislike chinese take overs, don't we!

And before that, when our national prides moved out to China....leaving unemployed Europeans behind.....for less taxes and regulations and bigger profits!

and at the same time voters in mainland Europe see that all the dire predictions of worsening standards of living etc never came true.

True!

But they see also that the promised better, more successful border-control, a thing many mainland Europeans wish for too, never came to pass either!

That it might make more sense to change the immigration laws from the inside....to build the "Fortress Europe" together in Brussels....
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #99
A quick search reveals tons of articles describing risks and concerns regarding the take-over of British companies by foreign investors

One reason that the contracts for public utility companies, railways etc aren't being renewed. There's no reason they should be a cash cow for so one else, either elsewhere in Europe or further afield. This has already started and is likely to go further under the new Labour government. Especially where there are clear Service Level Agreements that aren't being met. Poland should think about doing this more.

we all dislike chinese take overs

Something to block on grounds of national security.

they see also that the promised better, more successful border-control, a thing many mainland Europeans wish for too, never came to pass either!

Yet.

And they also see that much of this is the result of deliberate actions by France who actively enable migrants to cross the channel. Their police just stand and watch and their shops still sell the inflatable dinghies.
wslipach 8 | 87
7 Jun 2024 #100
.there is no other way....so, don't vote for politicians who fak things up IN the EU. Voting instead for Poland. Logical, right?
@ Bratwurst Boy

Thats what old sausages like you want the people to think, that there is no other way. The only way Germans can stay in power is through EU power grip, once that breaks apart Germans will start to slide downwards, German economy relies heavily on EU , that is why it is in the interests of Poland to break away as soon as possible from EU and continue to build economic independance and strengthten its hold on the Three Seas Project , we are the leaders of it, we should press on with it and grow our power that will be an offset to the faking EU.

Every anniversary of Polands entry to EU I do something extra bad to Germans, thats on top of the usual horrible things I do to them, I just want to celebrate, after all its about EU
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
7 Jun 2024 #101
The idea of Brexit was supposedly that the UK could negotiate alone and get better conditions. If you wre unhappy with the French, you'll need to make them a better offer.

Honestly, the French are looking like the real winners of Brexit. Amongst the EU there is now one less voice against their economic fantasies. They managed to grab the EBA and improved the standing of Paris as a financial center. They get to improve on may standing deals they have with the UK. And Macron is now using the Ukraine war to become the undisputed leader of Europe. Napoleon could have only dreamt of the Brits making such a mistake.
Torq 7 | 978
7 Jun 2024 #102
it is in the interests of Poland to break away as soon as possible from EU and continue to build economic independance and strengthten its hold on the Three Seas Project

Most of the Three Seas countries are in the EU and they have no intention whatsoever of leaving the union, so there goes your plan, genius.

Every anniversary of Polands entry to EU I do something extra bad to Germans, thats on top of the usual horrible things I do to them

You mean you masturbate furiously to German p0rn three times on this day, instead of your usual two times?
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #103
The idea of Brexit

The "idea" was to leave something that had been a good trading bloc but which was increasingly to our disadvantage including actively working against our interests.

If you wre unhappy with the French, you'll need to make them a better offer.

Why would we need to make any "offer" to French companies? Any contracts they have are there to be fulfilled by them to the letter. And the return of infrastructure to public and domestic ownership when the contracts expire affects 'investors' from several countries.

They get to improve on may standing deals they have with the UK

Except they don't; their prime minister was recently begging for either a way out of projects that his partly state owned energy company committed to dishonestly and can't afford to fulfill or for funding from the UK to enable them to fulfill it without huge expense on their part. The answer was "non".

We shall see a lot more of that after the election.

making such a mistake.

Or a decision which looks better daily.
Ironside 50 | 12,467
7 Jun 2024 #104
Most of the Three Seas countries are in the EU

What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't matter. It is a bad argument because they can always leave the EU if there is another and better option outside it.

You have no idea how many EU-Europeans agree with you, Iron!

Good. What stopped Germans from changing their leaders? Seems like those are deadbeat anyway but seem to be stuck on the top.
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deliberate actions by France who actively enable migrants t

French government actions are criminal they should be held accountable I don't get how they can get away with all the crap they are pulling.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #105
Or a decision which looks better daily.

How so?

As I read it (from Berlin, mind you) it looks like the leftist Brits will win the next elections...leftists who are usually rather pro-immigration and anti-nationalist!

One could think you could have had that if you stayed...but actually the EU is about to change ways more right....less leftist...to a big part because of the anti-immigration and nationalist movements in the member states. (Sunday are the big EU-elections!)

You see? It's abit confusing....
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #106
the leftist Brits will win the next elections

Labour will win. The Tories are likely to be wiped out for the foreseeable.

leftists who are usually rather pro-immigration and anti-nationalist!

Don't confuse ours with yours. Or try to understand ours. Many have tried, none have succeeded.

nationalist movements in the member states.

That's something that doesn't appeal there, and another reason why there would need to be major changes before we could be tempted to return. National sovereignty, and end to 'federalist' fantasies and the primacy of the nation state, yes. European 'nationalists' and 'ethnocentrists', no.

French government actions are criminal they should be held accountable I don't get how they can get away with all the crap they are pulling.

Given their declining state, plummeting prestige on the world stage, regular civil disobedience at home and their likely change of government, it looks like they won't. There are certainly scandals that are likely to come into the public domain over the next couple of years, and for reasons of safety and security, I wouldn't want to be in Paris at the time of the Olympics next month. They've already found one bomb and it is a gift for r*SSia and other malign state actors.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #107
What stopped Germans from changing their leaders?

You know the old saying?

"It's the economy, stupid!"

Berlin could do what it wanted as long as our economy did well, or rather looked like it was well. The mystery of Merkel's long rule and moving their party and the whole gov left and green ways!

Now, that doesn't work anymore....the economy sinks and the discontent of the german people rises! Every now upcoming election will mirror that development....that will have consequences for our leaders and their parties of course too!

Don't confuse ours with yours.

Are they so different?

What is Labours stand on immigration? And the war in Ukraine? Are they woke or not?

That's something that doesn't appeal there,

They are not nationalist? Then they have no problems with the EU?
Torq 7 | 978
7 Jun 2024 #108
What does that have to do with anything? It doesn't matter.

Of course it matters. Not a single Three Seas country even cursorily mentions leaving the EU in their daily political discourse. Not even Hungary. Mińôdzymorze has a chance as an internal EU block (sort of like this Mediterranean Union thing that the French are so excited about); in the foreseeable future no Three Seas EU member will leave the union and you can quote me on that.

I don't get how they can get away with all the crap they are pulling.

The only EU country apart from Poland with something that resembles an army and the only nuclear power in the EU. Also, the second largest economy of the Union. I guess they can get away with more. So, we need to get stronger and wealthier and we will get away with more stuff too. Life's unfair like that. Oh, well...
wslipach 8 | 87
7 Jun 2024 #109
Most of the Three Seas countries are in the EU and they have no intention whatsoever of leaving the union, so there goes your plan, genius.

What has that go to do with Three Seas management? Even if Poland stays in EU It can continue developing TSP, eaither way, but better without EU

You mean you masturbate furiously to German p0rn three times on this day, instead of your usual two times?
@ Torq

No you dumbass it would be doing germs a favour by promoting german **** which = LGBT ****
Tacitus 2 | 1,392
7 Jun 2024 #110
Genuine question regarding the Three Seas:

Does anyone really think, that the actions of Orban's Hungary and Fico's Slovakia align more with Poland's interests than what Germany is doing? Or how Austria's neutrality? How about Greek reluctance to provide Ukraine with some of its' impressive weapons arsenal?

I understand that we Germans can be hard to work with, but it seems to me that the alternatives are hardly appealing as well.
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #111
Are they so different?

Very. Chalk and cheese. People have made the mistake of not understanding that before.

And the war in Ukraine?

Very pro-Ukraine.

woke

What does that even mean?
Torq 7 | 978
7 Jun 2024 #112
Does anyone really think, that the actions of Orban's Hungary and Fico's Slovakia align more with Poland's interests than what Germany is doing?

Nope. Hungary and Slovakia are not helping, and the V4 has effectively become a V2. :-/ As for Austria and Greece, they are not considered core Three Seas countries. In general, I suppose we will have to wait for the end of Ukrainian-Russian conflict to see what (if anything) can be salvaged from V4, and what perspectives are there for the Three Seas. Working with Germany is of course an obvious thing to do if we are to remain in the Union, and I guess that with Tusk at helm it should be easier now than during Kaczynski's reign.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #113
People have made the mistake of not understanding that before.

Yeah well....I asked you?

Maybe british Labour is really different to what counts mainland-Europe leftist!

I guess it's the same with polish Tusk....and it could be the same with the new german leftist party led by Wagenknecht: less immigration, more for the national workers...less woke...less green...but already differing on Ukraine....interesting times!
wslipach 8 | 87
7 Jun 2024 #114
Does anyone really think, that the actions of Orban's Hungary and Fico's Slovakia align more with Poland's interests than what Germany is doing? Or how Austria's neutrality? How about Greek reluctance ....?

Because Poland really needs these big economies, especially Greek dying ass or Austria's 0 natural resources prowess. Three Seas is already crowded , the lessser the better, Poland has big economy now and it is growing and growing and growing and Germany's economy is not growing and not growing and desperate to grow again. There wont be 40 years of EU anniversary with Poland in it, there wont be EU at all hahaha
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 11,952
7 Jun 2024 #115
*eye roll*

...you are really a Putin troll, are you? Only in Moscow that would make sense....
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #116
And thanks for asking. As I said, chalk and cheese.

Poles often assume that nobody understands them and their culture, whereas in fact many people do. The U.K. is the opposite. Many people think they understand how things work there but almost never do. Those who are wise accept that.

Labour is really different

We invented the Worker's movement, Socialism, the cooperative movement, universal healthcare, the welfare state and free compulsory education. We also have thriving capitalism and conservative voices, invented modern industry and we have a very effective and traditional military class. Yet we've never had a revolution, and rarely do what outsiders expect us to do.
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #118
Association football, Rugby football. cricket, darts, snooker and a few games we invented that others play but we never do.
wslipach 8 | 87
7 Jun 2024 #119
Poles often assume that nobody understands them and their culture, whereas in fact many people do

Just when I thought nobody understands me, just when I thought that you are just a dumb hard nosed fatherfaker who thinks he knows everything, but you know us Polish people, relief. Reading it you motherfaking dumb Poles?! Read it, this man understands us, better than we understand ourselves, go to him if you need anything, he will tell you what you need to know. Trust him

And yeah, long live EU and fak Ironside!
jon357 74 | 22,730
7 Jun 2024 #120
Are you on drugs or does your brain produce those chemicals by itself?


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