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Why is Poland weaker than Russia?


Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
28 Mar 2019 #271
Being locked into unfavourable long term LNG supplies from the US is every bit as bad as being locked into bad long term deals with Russia.

Except for that little detail called NATO and the US military umbrella, as full of holes as it might be, but still good enough for Poland to want it.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
28 Mar 2019 #272
NATO and the US military umbrella

The mafia sells "protection", too. Both of the above are simply instruments to project American power across the globe.
jon357 67 | 16,836
28 Mar 2019 #273
Or hold on to their rapidly declining power.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
28 Mar 2019 #274
The mafia sells "protection", too.

Selectively quoting will not get you far because we know how to read English. To refresh your memory, I wrote this:

...the US military umbrella, as full of holes as it might be, but still good enough for Poland to want it.

Real mafia sells protection to those who love their kneecaps. Poland WANTS the US protection and the US never threatened Polish kneecaps.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
28 Mar 2019 #275
Poland WANTS the US protection

I can imagine they would prefer not to have any foreign troops at all in the country. The constant attempts of the US administration to undermine the Nord Stream II and Turk Stream pipeline projects have nothing to do with some evil Russians trying to control Europe. It's all about selling LNG and strategic meddling in European affairs.

the US never threatened Polish kneecaps

"Buy American LNG or else (the Russians will come to get you)..." sure smells like it.

Or hold on to their rapidly declining power.

Which will ruin us financially on the long run just as it did the Soviets.
Spike31 2 | 2,153
28 Mar 2019 #276
Because they love Poland so much or because they want to sell you some overpriced LNG?

They don't have to 'love' Poland as long as we have common interests and we both benefit from cooperation. A common interest is much more solid platform for cooperation than 'love'.

I hope Putin will remember how Russia was insulted by Poland and return the favor on May 9.

I think Russians should be invited but also the president of Poland should make it clear in his speech that both: Nazi Germany and the USSR were the aggressors who attacked Poland in 1939 and he should also mention Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Only the truth will set us free.
TheOther 5 | 3,711
28 Mar 2019 #277
we both benefit from cooperation

Some argue that the real purpose of NATO is to keep a military conflict with the Russians away from American soil...
Spike31 2 | 2,153
28 Mar 2019 #278
This way or another the potential future conflict in Europe would concentrate in Central Europe like it always does. So it is better to be prepared and to have allies than not.

The main benefit of NATO for Poland is...uncertainty. Uncertainty on the aggressors side that is.

Will they all retaliate or will they not? That benefit of uncertainty is what stops them and makes them think twice before making any reckless moves. I wouldn't count on Germany or France and I think their presence in NATO is purely symbolic and it only serves to keep Germany at bay (which is already a very valuable thing itself).

Basically the stronger Poland becomes, the more likely the others would engage on our side.

The revision of the Nuclear treaty in the future would also be a very smart thing to do. We just can't afford to not have nuclear weapons sitting in Central Europe between Germany and Russia. Poland should start with NATO nuclear sharing and build up from there.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
28 Mar 2019 #279
Poland should make it clear in his speech that both: Nazi Germany and the USSR were the aggressors who attacked Poland

And the upside, other than venting, would be what?
Both countries were aggressive, but neither is stupid now not to know what their fathers did in '39.
So, again, what would be the point to rub it in one more time?
Spike31 2 | 2,153
28 Mar 2019 #280
If the truth is not enough of a reward itself than common sense should be. Poland shouldn't submit to Russia's false historical narrative which goes against geopolitical interests of Poland.

Let's not forget that Russia didn't officially admitted signing Ribbentrop-Molotov pact (1939) until the collapse of the USSR (1993). The whole generations of Eastern block citizens were told lies which served Russian [false] identity and politics and in their eyes justified the occupation ("protection") of Central Europe.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
28 Mar 2019 #281
Poland shouldn't submit to Russia's false historical narrative which goes against geopolitical interests of Poland.

What false narrative? Russia already admitted, as you wrote.
Not inviting Russia to a commemorative event was as dumb as it gets because there is no upside to this empty gesture. Both Russia and Germany admitted their wrongdoings. But only Russia is the bad guys with the ratio of war victims greater than two orders of magnitude.

And what does "submit" mean? Did Poland "submit" to Germany?
Spike31 2 | 2,153
28 Mar 2019 #282
What false narrative? Russia already admitted, as you wrote.

Yes, but it has to be repeated over and over again to counter-balance decades of false narrative.

You also have to take into account that to this day for most Russians the WWII has started in June 1941 when Hitler invaded the USRR as it was claimed for decades by Soviet historians.
Vlad1234 16 | 757
28 Mar 2019 #283
I wonder how many years have to pass before WWII will start to erase from the national memories?
Miloslaw 9 | 2,825
28 Mar 2019 #284
Give us about another 100 years.....OK with you?
Vlad1234 16 | 757
28 Mar 2019 #285
ANOTHER? Just 100 is not enough?
Miloslaw 9 | 2,825
28 Mar 2019 #286
No,not for what you bar stewards did to us.....
Spike31 2 | 2,153
28 Mar 2019 #287
I wonder how many years have to pass before WWII will start to erase from the national memories?

I don't think it should ever be erased. Once it got erased the WWIII is sure to follow.
Vlad1234 16 | 757
28 Mar 2019 #288
I don't claim it has to be erased. Just wonder about obsession. But perhaps why not?
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
29 Mar 2019 #289
Personally, I am pissed off about the low ebb of the US and Poland's relations with Russia. It was my plan to go to Moscow and take a ride on their Trans Siberian train. Maybe even stop at a couple of cities along the way. Now, with either the US and the Polish passport on me, I would be nuts to do it. I wonder if me claiming I am Polish, not an American, would make them stop beating the crap out of me or not charge me with espionage.
Bagel
29 Mar 2019 #290
It's sad when poles act too Europeans.
Spike31 2 | 2,153
29 Mar 2019 #291
@Rich Mazur

And that's the difference between Poland and Russia. In Poland nobody would beat a man on a sole merit of being a Russian. A common Russian folks are even being welcomed in Poland. Poland has even got a local border traffic with Kaliningrad (Krolewiec).
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
29 Mar 2019 #292
In Poland nobody would beat a man on a sole merit of being a Russian.

Why, only two days ago in Wrocław, some Polish thugs were convicted of beating a Russian for no reason whatsoever.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
29 Mar 2019 #293
Thanks for that dose of reality. Attacking foreigners is especially attractive in any country as they are not very likely to show up for the trial even if the cops locate the perp - which is very unlikely. Only in the US we are stupid enough to spend 150 grand investigating a small scratch on guy who went out at 2 am to get a sandwich.
Spike31 2 | 2,153
29 Mar 2019 #294
@delphiandomine, knowing you I wouldn't be surprised it if was like in this old Russian joke from radio Yerevan:

It didn't happen in Wroclaw but in Poznan, the man wasn't Russian but Scottish, and he didn't get beating for nothing but for public indecency :-)
10iwonka10 - | 395
29 Mar 2019 #295
I wonder if me claiming I am Polish, not an American, would make them not charge me with espionage.

With sure it would save you some money. My friends- English-went to Russia few years ago. They were not impressed by one thing- As soon as it was noticed that they are from 'west' Europe some unexpected extra charges appeared everywhere.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,185
29 Mar 2019 #296
I wonder if a US passport, stolen or lost, has a market value in Russia.
Spike31 2 | 2,153
4 Apr 2019 #297
"Russian, who took his three children from Swedish foster family, is detained in Poland"

tass.com/society/1051821

In communist times Poles often seek refugee in Scandinavia, not it is the other way around and political refugees are coming to Poland from a "free liberal world"
delphiandomine 88 | 18,475
4 Apr 2019 #298
What a surprise, Spike is using Kremlin-controlled sources of information.

By the way, how nice of you to support children being taken away from their mother, as she certainly won't have any opportunity to see them now, while their father was clearly enough of concern for his access to be limited to 6 hours a week.
Spike31 2 | 2,153
4 Apr 2019 #299
children being taken away from their mother

You are commenting on an article that you clearly didn't read [again]. Typical @delphiandomine :-)
Velund 1 | 364
5 Apr 2019 #300
Poland WANTS the US protection

Was there any referendum or something similar about this?

As I can see, anyone who come into power in Poland immediately forget that he/she must care about interests of Polish people and start to work for anglos.

For now, Poland is set up to be a "buffer state" to be contaminated by radioactive isotopes in case of Russian invasion to a Western Europe. Place where tactical nuclear warheads can be used without doubts. Even retired Polish generals openly talking about this stuff.

The only thing that may present some interest for Russians in Poland and Baltic states is a GUARANTEED ABSENCE OF HOSTILE MILITARY BASES OF THIRD COUNTRIES. Anything else is abundant in Russia.

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