So please, stop blaming Poles for all antisemitism in the world.
In my opinion he can't help himself he is on a mission never to allow old wounds to heal (That does not mean to deny the wrongs of the past), he never wants any Jewish person visiting this site to be left in no doubt that todays Poland is anti Jewish, he would not even accept a genuine offer to come and visit to find out how things are here for himself.
mods - the quote was quite short - why are you making people read the whole article on Israel Singer and wonder what part of the article poster had in mind
For the umpteenth time, people, I'm NOT "blaming" Poland or the Poles for antisemitism!
You're either not understanding my English (more than likely) or you're one recalcitrant little bugger who doesn't want to understand the truth.
Arch Catholic societies are traditionally more prone to intense anti-semitism than Protestant countries!! Catholic liturgy takes the Scripture for granted that it was the Jews who killed Jesus, when everybody with a brain knows it was the Romans:-) Compare Spain (the Intefada), France, Poland, or Austria with Scandinavia, Holland or England. Apart from the Lincolnshire Massacres during the Middle Ages, after nearly three centuries, it was Cromwell who welcomed the Jews back to England.
No country's perfect. Then again, no country had Auschwitz or Treblinka except one which was occupied by the Germans. In Nazi Germany, Munich and the Catholic south was far more supportive of Hitler than Cologne (oddly enough a Catholic stronghold as well, yet a more "liberal" Catholic city, look at Adenauer), Hamburg or Berlin (which Hitler himself even publically defamed as "The Jewish Republic").
History's full of peculiar paradoxes. First though, one has to read the history. When are you going to start?
Jews who killed Jesus, when everybody with a brain knows it was the Romans:-
hmmm , heh, we want Barabas and so on - it was Jews who wanted Jesus killed and Pilate famously washed his hands
but it's just a detail and it don't matter ultimately
ever heard of 'Wasze ulice, nasze kamienice' (your streets our real-estate) - and it mattered before the war (in the interbellum)
as for NSDAP support in Germany - the election results of 1933 clearly show that the NSDAP had more support in Protestant Laender and generally in the North -that's your paradox for you
you were also insinuating that Germans built the camps in Poland because Poles somehow supported the idea - does it make sense in the light of Poland being the only occupied country where any help given to Jews was punished with death by the German occupation authorities
while Polish anti-semitism in the interbellum is undeniable Poles paradoxically didn't en masse support the extermination of Jews - so many paradoxes Lyzko - I'm not sure you can deal with such an ammount
Last time I checked pretty much every European country principality city state etc kicked out the Jews at one point or another. King kazimierz wielki welcomed them to poland after they pretty much had no where else to go in europe
Poles paradoxically didn't en masse support the extermination of Jews
maybe because they have suffered from the hands of Germans (inteligentsia, those taking part in Silesian uprisings etc were the early victims of Germans) way before the Holocaust started. Also Poles were daily reminded that Germans considered them Untermenschen.
Fact is, Pontius Pilate ordered Jesus to be crucified. Judas Iskariot, while Jewish as was Jesus, might have not voluntarily turned in his Master. For Pilate though, there was no such ready excuse as Jesus had already long been a thorn in the side of the Romans, stirring up "trouble" by convincing the locals that Pilate was bad:-)
stirring up "trouble" by convincing the locals that Pilate was bad:-)
No, he didn't. The only stirred element at the time was the Jewish establishment. Anyway, the Jews today have very little if anything in common with the Jews in Jesus times. Their religion was different, many religious practises were different. Genetically Palestinians today have more in common with the ancient Hebrew people than Jews.
Why are you bring it all up? Someone cooked up some nonsense and you are repeating it mindlessly.
For the umpteenth time, people, I'm NOT "blaming" Poland or the Poles for antisemitism!
You were blaming Poles for their "help" and "support" of the Germans when concentration camps were built on Polish soil using the argument that some other countries didn't have concentration camps therefore the Poles were in some way responsible for having the camps on their own soil
Facts are facts! Gross wasn't making stuff up or he wouldn't have gotten to Princeton. Some people actually get to where they are on their merits, not always through affirmative action:-)
Poles hate him even PO types because he said things that were extremely insulting inflammatory and most importantly totally false statements against Poles and Poland. Even a leader from the Bathory Foundation (which actually gets some money from Soros) denounced him. He's anti-polish as they come and extremely biased, uninformed, and objective. BTW Anyone know what ever happened with the libel case Poland launched against him in 2015?
He ought to take a trip to Israel's Yad Vashem memorial (as I have while in Israel for work) as then he would see Poles have the most, roughly a quarter, of all the 22k Righteous Among the Nations awards for saving Jews during the Holocaust... but no he instead focuses on some hick little polish village where a few hundred died out of the tens of millions who perished throughout the war. He's a race baiter no different than people like Jesse Jackson.
I'm not saying that Poles and Jews don't have a complicated history and have had animosity towards each other at times. However it rarely ever resulted in murders yet he points out one incident while disregarding all the things Poles did for the Jews, and to some extent what Jews did for Poles. The reasons are complicated and much of it stems from Jews taking advantage of Poles and even sentencing many to death (like adam michnik's brother) and giving AK members and supporters of the government in exile up to the soviets. Combine that with the Zionist views during 68' which somewhat continue to the present day which many poles reject. Nonetheless, Poles and Jews have lived peacefully with each other 99.9% of the time since the Renaissance years and they'll continue to do so regardless of what race baiters like Jan Gross do.
Also people working at uni's make stuff up all the time. There's a professor at a local uni who wrote a report how Whole Foods is classist because they don't have them in black neighborhoods. Clearly she didn't do much research as there's one that I know of in Englewood which is arguably the most dangerous area in Chicago as well as others in also rougher neighborhoods.
Furthermore, don't forget Norman Finkelstein is a professor at DePaul - the guy who wrote The Holocaust Industry. Facts are facts right otherwise he wouldn't of got in to teach there?
Correct, kaprys! Although only half-Jewish (technically NON-Jewish because only his father was of the faith), Gross nonetheless identifies with his Jewish heritage:-)
I don't think he is the only one. People make their choices. What about reformed Jews, wouldn't they accept him as 'technically' Jewish too because of his Christian mother? I think I read it is acceptable for reformed Jews. Not sure, though.
What I find interesting about him is his view on the scale of antisemitism in Poland. I wonder where it comes from and the only answer that comes to my mind is what happened to his family in 1968. He felt rejected by Poland, so he rejected Poland, too.
Well by the standards of your own argument (or facts as you like to call them) then Jews were equally responsible and supportive of the Nazi regime by the work that many of them did in these death camps.
You mean the kapos who were forced at pain of death and torture to shove the corpses of their fellow Jews into ovens?? Not exactly a correct analogy, as the Jews were not taught in their yeshivot to HATE all goyim, what's more to destroy them!
Don't let's please measure those random, rogue militant anti-Palestinians by the standards of a Meir Kahan! Not ALL Germans supported Hitler either, not EVERY Polish Catholic is an anti-Semite, and so forth.
@kaprys,
A bit facile your argument that because Poland rejected Gross, he rejected Poland! If your parents were gassed by some nameless enemy, I somehow don't think you'd be running back to your homeland shouting, "I'M BACK!! TORTURE ME SOME MORE!!, unless you're some sort of sado-masochist:-)
Polish Catholic midwife Stanisawa Leszczyñska delivered 3,000 babies at the Auschwitz Concentration camp during the Holocaust in occupied Poland. One can only wonder how many of them survived.
Three people resigned from Auschwitz museum board over appointment of right-wing politician. Beata Szydlo faced backlash in 2017 when she appeared to defend her conservative anti-migrant policies during a memorial observance at the former Nazi death camp. She said that "in today's restless times, Auschwitz is a great lesson showing that everything must be done to protect the safety and life of one's citizens."
She later denied that her highly-criticized remarks were about refugees. Can any of you Poles here tell me why such remarks would be criticized even if they were about refugees ?
Can any of you Poles here tell me why such remarks would be criticized even if they were about refugees ?
Because decent people rejected them as scandalous coz she juxtaposed the genocide of over 1 million Jews and tens of thousand Poles in the death camp with a refugee crisis. That was a sick comparison.
There are two possible interpretations of what she said: 1. Refugees are a threat that is why we need to put them in concentration camps like Auschwitz. 2. Refugeees are a threat coz they will build concentration camps for natives.
Both are unacceptable - every decent person will admit it.
she juxtaposed the genocide of over 1 million Jews and ....with a refugee crisis.
How about that she reminded us what allowing refugees of any kind leads to. Way back, Jews Poland admitted were refugees and what did Poland get in return? Nothing but grief.
Never again. Smart lady.
BTW, "refugees" are supposed to be temporary. Somehow, they never leave. In fact, the opposite happens. They multiply like NY rats and have demands. Lots of demands.
Home / History / Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?
