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Can anyone from Poland tell me about Auschwitz and The Ghetto?


Paulina
19 Apr 2023 #541
RuSSian opposition

Russian in their case - a force of habit, sorry :))
Miloslaw
19 Apr 2023 #542
Poles warned Germans... They didn't listen..

Dead right.

And greedy. So were Poles, to some extent. Everybody could see what Putin was like

Definitely, there were many people looking after their own finances and not their morality.
johnny reb
20 Apr 2023 #543
Human nature when it becomes every man for himself.
Lyzko
20 Apr 2023 #544
Fear often, indeed mostly, governs human behavior! Sadly, the exception outpaces the rule.
Miloslaw
20 Apr 2023 #545
, the exception outpaces the rule.

In my English, that means that the exception out performs the rule.
Is that really what you meant to say?
Lyzko
21 Apr 2023 #546
Indeed, Milo.
Few among us would risk our lives for either our freedom or that of our fellow beings. The will to survive remains the strongest of all human instincts, including that of sacrificing ourselves for the sake of others.

Of course, I've always maintained that heroes are made by the moment rather than born. The younger we are, the more likely (forget consciously willing) to take impetuous risks. Were my wife or family were trapped inside a burning building, I'd surely like to think that I'd try to go in to save them.

Remember from "Miracle on 34th Street; faith goes where common sense tells us not to, or how about in the '53 film "Titanic":

Boiler room engineer to chaplain as the ship is sinking: For God's sake Father, don't go in there!

Chaplain: For God's sake, I must.
pawian
22 Apr 2023 #547
Poles warned Germans... They didn't listen.

Poles were warning and at the same time were buying huge amounts of Russian fuels. :):):)
pawian
22 Apr 2023 #549
On the anniversary day, the sirens are always turned on in the whole city.

WARSAW, Poland - It may be a usual occurrence in Israel, but the sirens that wailed in this city Wednesday were an extraordinary sign of commitment to the commemoration of Jewish Holocaust victims in Poland.

At the Polish capital's Monument to the Ghetto Heroes, dozens of Holocaust survivors and dignitaries, including the Israeli, Polish and German presidents, stood to the sounds of the sirens for a minute of silence in memory of the Jews who staged an uprising here 80 years ago.


See a vid showing siren commemoration of the Ghetto Rising in 2021:


Lyzko
23 Apr 2023 #550
How odd therefore that over the past twenty years or so, when the Poles are present at the Holocaust Commemoration ceremonies under the auspices of the UN, they say nothing, leaving the commentary to the British, the Germans, and the Israelis.

Perhaps others here might find it equally strange.
pawian
23 Apr 2023 #551
they say nothing, leaving the commentary to.

Because others, including many Jews, view Poles as antisemites. ):):)
Kashub1410
23 Apr 2023 #552
@Lyzko
I find it nothing strange about silent pay of respect. Besides as mentioned by @pawian anything would been said or stated would been probably viewed as antisemitic, and it's not the time to rile anyone up. At least from a Polish point of view I reckon
Alien
23 Apr 2023 #553
they say nothing,

because they have nothing to do with Holocaust.
Lyzko
24 Apr 2023 #554
The fact that many on the outside, gentiles alike, I'm afraid, view Poles as basically anti-Semitic, misses the point entirely!

Anti-Semitism took root in nearly every European country, with the possible exception(s) of Greece and Albania. If we examine the reasons for this phenomenon, we find it all had to do with numbers rather than sheer ethnicity.

As there were far more Jews in Poland, for example, than in either Greece, Albania, Denmark, as random instances, it stands to reason that in the former, Jews were seen as a threat, whereas in the latter, Jews were looked upon as a kind of oddity or exotic beings, nothing more.

As Germany especially pre-WW I probably counted nearly a half-million Jewish inhabitants compared with either France, Italy, Britain or Spain, many felt thay Jews might easily take over the country.

This excuse was in fact what was given by NS big shots at Nueremberg, when questioned by counsel regarding why the severity of restrictions and

Draconian measures against the Jews.

"It was about Germany's survival as a nation.....!" was often the most common justification given for their support of Hitler.
pawian
24 Apr 2023 #555
they say nothing,

Remind me where I said it.
Lyzko
24 Apr 2023 #556
The issue is that while Poles were clearly the victims of Nazi Germany's aggression, a number of individual Poles were admittedly complicit in anti-Semitic sentiment before, during, and following the War.

Both Jedwabne and Kielce both took place on Polish soil.
In my opinion, at least a few remarks would have been in order.
Alien
24 Apr 2023 #557
where I said it.

#551 - you quoted it.
Miloslaw
24 Apr 2023 #558
a number of individual Poles were admittedly complicit in anti-Semitic sentiment

Whilst I will never deny that fact I find it extremely offensive that some Jews hold your sort of opinions about Poles when Poland was the only country in Europe willing to accept Jews when all other major European nations were trying to rid themselves of them.

Lack of respect and gratitude or what?
pawian
24 Apr 2023 #559
at least a few remarks would have been in order.

Yes, but most people prefer to sweep the matter under the carpet. Only those decent ones speak up.
Miloslaw
24 Apr 2023 #560
most people prefer to sweep the matter under the carpet

What do you mean by that?
You can't make a post like that without elaboration!
Kashub1410
25 Apr 2023 #561
@pawian
Please do educate us what state representatives of the state of Poland or representatives of which party from the Polish Sejm has to apologise for?

Apologies to the Czechs for Cieszyn in 1938? Sure!

Repressions towards Belarusians and Ukrainians in inter war period? Sure!

Polish state however was not a collaborating part in the holocaust, but an active actor in not only fighting it as much as it possibly could (her possibilities were very slim, due to the fact of not surrendering!) but also informing the world of the events itself!

If the blue police was a thing still and individuals from alive, then they sure should say a word or two, same for every szmalcownik there is.

Thinking however that such scum would be honoured with anything from the Polish state is absurd, and it's possible to have issue with my post cause you guys consider the state of PRL a Polish state to begin with, while it was a Soviet puppet government.

It's as if the state structure and governmental bodies in Norway 1940-1945 would be called state of Norway, while in the hands of collaborating far right Norwegians. Which is absurd as they were puppets of the Germans.
pawian
25 Apr 2023 #562
Apologies to the Czechs for Cieszyn in 1938?

Why should Poles apologise? The Zaolzie annexation was carried out by the undemocratic regime of colonels called sanacja. Poles can`t be responsible for that sad event. Don`t you think?
Kashub1410
25 Apr 2023 #563
@pawian
Undemocratic or not, they were legitimate representants of the nation but, power inherited by coup de etat by Piłsudski.

It was performed in time of crisis and dangerous situation for Poland (1939 proved that). Later on when possibility arised it was attempted to democratisize, it failed tho due to external factors and geostratific importance (alignments with France, Sikorski).

Honest attempts at cooling off and fixing relations by post ww2 elected representative who was never seen again...

It wasn't until 1989 that a democratically elected representative was able to represent a legal form of government in a post war, post crisis situation.
Lyzko
25 Apr 2023 #564
Aha, pawku!
At last an admission of indifference.
I agree with you on that score.
pawian
25 Apr 2023 #565
Undemocratic or not, they were legitimate representants of the nation but,

Not very legitimate. They created a soft dictatorship, e.g, they openly persecuted their political opponents.

I must admit I asked you a tricky question with a tongue in the cheek. :):):)

What matters is that Piłsudski and his colonels were Poles and in result all Poles are responsible for their actions concerning Zaolzie annexation. .
Similarly, communists who expelled Jews in 1968 were also pure Poles and today all Poles are responsible for their dirty antisemitic campaign.
You mentioned apology. Yes, an apology for the expulsion of Poles with Jewish background by other Poles with communist background is duly appropriate in modern times.
Lyzko
25 Apr 2023 #566
Surely then not a complete coincidence that the exodus of Jews from Poland during the latter part of the Gomulka Era (Mieczyslaw Moczar also active at the time as an anti-foreign rabble rouser!) coincided with the so-called "brain drain" from Poland to the US.

'Course, not all those expelled were necessarily of Jewish background exclusively.
pawian
25 Apr 2023 #567
not all those expelled were necessarily of Jewish background exclusively

1% wasn`t, 99% were. E.g, , the man was a Jewish Pole while his wife who decided to emigrate with him wasn`t.
Lyzko
25 Apr 2023 #568
As I recall however, Wajda, the writer Slawomir Mrozek along with a group of others, gentiles all of them, had their differences with the Polish government too.
pawian
25 Apr 2023 #569
Wajda, the writer Slawomir Mrozek

Wajda never emigrated.
Mrożek did but in 1963, 5 years before the antisemitic campaign by Polish communists.
Yes, they had issues but it was Polish Jews who were expulsed by thousands with one way passports and no right to return. Poland lost a lot of brilliant people. .
Lyzko
25 Apr 2023 #570
In terms of raw numbers, I'll have to concede.
You experienced this as living history, at least your grandparents did, and so, you'd know better than I.

Although Wajda did remain in Poland, he certainly
was critical of Gomulka, at least according to the history books I've consulted.

Admittedly, historical "truth" doesn't always coincide with the "facts" LOL


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