What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?

Well, considering that France has about 300 and we taught them how to eat with knife and fork, then I suppose you're right - it will be 500. :)

Then Poland would be able to get WWII reparations from Germany after every German elections.

Yes, brate. I apologize for missing this part of your message.

Svetovid smiles from the skies, each time Slavic brothers unite in love for Mother Serbia. When good Slavs show this kind of cooperation - one can only say: all is well in the universe.

A little bird told me, that when all Slavs unite, the collective sphincter of every other race will tighten to impossibly small diameter.

@Ironside

What's this obsession with nuclear missiles? Who do you want to nuke? I am a little bit worried it may be Russia)

Only one country ever used nukes, and I'm fairly certain they still have mixed feelings about it. This is not a weapon that should be used by the Christ Among Nations.

Poland's most powerful weapon is its moral superiority.

It must be an early onset of paranoia.
Nuke, nobody? Why would I want to nuke anyone or anything, I just like to have them, those nukes you see.
What wrong with it?


Who is that? Russia?


HEY! Is that why Russia and Russians want to posses that weapon? I will it make easy for you....lets trade - Poland moral supriority for your nukes - deal?

I noticed you are not longer pan-slavic! :D

Am I dumb thinking that pan-slavic person wouldn't care if nukes are in the hands of Russians, Poles or Serbians ..... ?


Let be generous here all the moral supriority for 1/3 of nukes - that is a deal of the century for Russia of course...

Not that simple.

After all, Russia fought Poland, Serbs fought Croats, Bulgaria fought Serbia etc. The beautiful idea of Pan-Slavism didn't stop inter-slavic wars, just like the idea of United Nations didn't stop wars in general.


I don't see how they could ever say no to that.

Which is dubious in the light of Polish colonisation of Ukraine and other sins which Poles prefer to sweep under the carpet.

Historically - the epicenter of Pan-Slavism was the Balkans and the area that is now occupied by Czechia and Slovakia. This was in the 19th century.

These were Slavs that were under the rule of Turks, Venetians, Austrians and Hungarians for hundreds of years. They were Muslims, Catholics, and Orthodox - but still feeling closer to each other than towards any of their oppressors.

In Russia, they saw a savior (Poland also was not independent at the time). Indeed, using Pan-Slavism as its opening, Russia freed all the Slavs of Southern Europe within a relatively short period of time.

The peak of Pan-Slavism came with the creation of Czechoslovakia and Yugoslavia. Now, when both those countries have splintered into pieces - it's probably fair to say that the best days of Pan-Slavism are behind us.

What I'm trying to say, is that when Pawian says "Pan-Slavism always ends in Russian domination", it is not historically or factually correct. Russia did not invent Pan-Slavism, and has never really benefited from it in any big way.

No, it didn`t but adopted it as a tool to justify its aggressive politics in Slavic countries.


:):):) Of course it didn`t coz Slavic nations, primarily Poles, resisted Russian pan-slavism. Successfully. Russians tried hard but failed.

emerging-europe.com/after-hours/one-nation-under-russia-how-moscow-exploits-pan-slavism/

"In Russia pan-Slavism later took on a very different, in fact pro-imperial dimension. It was useful as it provided a justification for imperialist aggression against neighbouring Slavic peoples under the pretence of uniting some sort of family," argues Blacker.

Even amongst 19th century Czech thinkers, it is hard to say there was a consensus on Slavic unity. "Russian gentlemen first assure us that we are all Slavs so that they could later say that everything Slavic is Russian and must be subordinated to them," wrote the Czech poet, critic and politician Karel Havlíček Borovský in the 1850s.

@pawian

Is Russia, freeing all the Slavs of Southern Europe and Central Europe from the clutches of the Ottomans, Austrians, and Venetians a good thing or a bad thing? Are those countries today a part of Russia? Did we turn them into Russians? All of them follow the Orthodox faith?

What the hell, we even gave you guys your historic lands in the West - taking them away from the Germans. The pieces we cut from the East, were not even majority Polish, and in any case do not belong to Russia now.

As far as Pan-Slavism goes, Russia certainly didn't invent it, did not benefit from it much, but absolutely did the bigger part of the heavy lifting in giving it some actual substance.

Your hate for Russia is blinding!

Stop lying. It was the joint decision of allies, not Soviets alone.


Who says they were?????


Of course. But they DID belong to Soviet Russia. Didn`t we establish long ago that Russia remains itself regardless of the political system???

The Soviets could easily have said no and the US would fold. Nobody was then in the mood to fight anymore.

You did benefit. E..g, Serbians and Bulgarians are traditionally proRussian. That means a lot to Russians. Having friends in Europe when almost whole Europe is against you..... Ha!


Under a new President called Truman???? Your crystal ball is out of order. :):):) Besides, why do you mention only US and USSR? The third major ally was GB.

And Greeks.

The US and Russia should be partners in keeping Europe on the leash and from starting another big one, if not friends. They were once...

Thank you!

I have this theory, that I've been carrying around for a long time - that Russia and the US have more in common, than what sets them apart.

1) We are both, "of Europe", but also very clearly not "European". To them, we are their primitive cousins, and sometimes they remind us about this.

2) The "Frontier" played a huge role in the shaping of each country's mindset. The Americans had Manifest Destiny, Conquest of the West, cowboys, and homesteaders. At the same time, Russia moved East towards the Pacific, through similarly desolate lands. Instead of cowboys we had Cossacks. Instead of homesteaders, we had our own peasant settlers.

3) Both countries have an idea, right or wrong, that they have a special role to play among the people's of the world.

4) Both consider Europe weak, effeminate, and rotting.

5) We are both a little bit worried about the monstrous size and appetite of China.

6) As people, I think we are both very open, simple, and hospitable. You get what you see. This is why I think in personal relations, Americans and Russians get along very well.

All the above, is not to say that America is closer to Russia than Poland. Think about that :)

This thread is about Polish Russian, not Am-Russian friendship. Stick to the topic. .

Sure Russia and USA used to be partners in crime. That a fact. As for personal relations, that is streaching. Indviduals get along or not.. has nothing to do with what you say...

have you give up on the idea of Poland and Russia becoming if not friends but not enemies?
Told you at the start that Russia doesn't know how ...has no clue or skils.

Just got distracted by American matters. I did not give up on the idea, and continue to view it seriously.

However, nuclear weapons cannot be the "only" answer. Russia will be the first country that will have problems after giving nukes to Poland. We are a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. We would become even more sanctioned, by possibly a much larger circle of countries.

Poland would also face extreme problems. Getting kicked out of NATO, and the EU could be just the start.

We have to start slow, but always move forward. Maybe even the day for sharing nukes will come, but much has to be done before.

It is the only one that would work. I mean it doesn't have to happen over night, but to came to an agreement as a base principle of which would be a fact and a green light as to Poland having their own nukes.

Whether Poland would got it on it own, would bought it or would have been given those nukes , that is not importand. It would only set different timetable or/and conditions.

It is very much on the topic.

US-Russia friendship would make Poland-Russia friendship a reality in less than 24 hours.
The US would simply tell Poland to knock that Russia hate crap off and STFU about Katyn, Mongols, and barbarians. Also about plane crashes...

Lets suppose that a Russia puppet gets elected in USA and agrees to disband NATO. Do you think that Poland, Baltic and so on would't try to get nukes and fu*ck NPT? We would't be re occupied by "srussia" any time soon.

I wasn't sure if you were Polish. Now I know.

It's absolutely certain we will beg, borrow or steal our way to have nukes if the current alliance network fails.
You have to be worse than suicidal to even contemplate being again under Moscow's influence.

Not so easy. This dislike of Russia posing an imperialist threat to Poland is too deeply ingrained in minds here. Poles suck it with their mum`s milk, sort of. Just like antisemitism in case of some Poles. :):):)

Depence what you mean exctly by it!

He doesn't mean anything specific to prevent fact-based responses. A new debating technique...Be vague to shut them up.
Like Putin is evil. Done. Case closed. Next...

What about the downtrodden in Russia? Imagine how many lives could have been improved, if only Putin didn't spend large portion of the state income on this moronic war.

russian culture weren't a cesspit devoted to theft and war?

Now you are making sense...Russia would be delirious if the Western warmongers quit salivating after its resources and buried NATO right next to the Warsaw Pact.

BTW, have you seen our potholes, rusting bridges, 60-mph fast trains, the homeless, and that joke of a wall down south?

Almost forgot .... and thousands of foreigners nobody needs that call NY sidewalks their home, if only temporarily...