video is breathtaking...Thanks
You're welcome!
What should Russia and Poland do to become if not friends, then at least not enemies?
You're welcome!
welcome
As far as I understand Novi meant Pawian's video, not yours, which would be consistent with his worldview.
As far as I understand
Yes, he did, but it was obvious to everybody and maf only cracked a teasing joke on Novi.
Show more sense of humour next time. :):)
but it was obvious to everybody
Not necessarily. But back to the topic, Poland and Russia are not officially enemies. For example, the pipeline called the friendship pipeline is still working.
Polish-Russian Friendship - Realism Edition:
I will start with what Poland must do:
1) It is unreasonable for us to expect Poland to leave the EU, however, it can begin to act as Russia's advocate within the EU. The same way it does for Ukraine.
2) Simplify travel requirements, and liberalize the movement of goods between Kaliningrad Oblast and Poland.
3) Defend Russia's position on the defense of the Russian language in the Baltics.
4) Resist sending any Polish forces to various American adventures around the world.
Now, as a Russian this is a little more difficult for me, but I will try to list what Russia can do symmetrically on its part to improve relations:
1) Declare, as a foreign policy principle, that a Poland within NATO and within the EU is fully acceptable to Russians and even to our advantage.
2) Simplify entry for Polish business into the Russian market.
3) Remove visa requirements for Poles (even though Poles would not be able to make this reciprocal due to obligations to Brussels).
4) Allow Poles to gain work permits within Russia, on a simplified basis.
Things both countries can do:
1) Foster student exchanges
2) Host a "Year of Russian Culture in Poland", and a "Year of Polish Culture in Russia", to reintroduce the two to each other.
3) Form "historical remembrance commissions", where historians - not politicians, can study questions like Katyn, Warsaw Uprising, etc.
Something like that.
I will start with what Poland must do:
1) It is unreasonable for us to expect Poland to leave the EU, however, it can begin to act as Russia's advocate within the EU. The same way it does for Ukraine.
2) Simplify travel requirements, and liberalize the movement of goods between Kaliningrad Oblast and Poland.
3) Defend Russia's position on the defense of the Russian language in the Baltics.
4) Resist sending any Polish forces to various American adventures around the world.
Now, as a Russian this is a little more difficult for me, but I will try to list what Russia can do symmetrically on its part to improve relations:
1) Declare, as a foreign policy principle, that a Poland within NATO and within the EU is fully acceptable to Russians and even to our advantage.
2) Simplify entry for Polish business into the Russian market.
3) Remove visa requirements for Poles (even though Poles would not be able to make this reciprocal due to obligations to Brussels).
4) Allow Poles to gain work permits within Russia, on a simplified basis.
Things both countries can do:
1) Foster student exchanges
2) Host a "Year of Russian Culture in Poland", and a "Year of Polish Culture in Russia", to reintroduce the two to each other.
3) Form "historical remembrance commissions", where historians - not politicians, can study questions like Katyn, Warsaw Uprising, etc.
Something like that.
@Bobko
The greatest achievement at present is that Poland and Russia have not broken diplomatic relations. Time will come for the rest ....after war.
The greatest achievement at present is that Poland and Russia have not broken diplomatic relations. Time will come for the rest ....after war.
GefreiterKania 34 | 1493
13 Aug 2023 #427
act as Russia's advocate within the EU. The same way it does for Ukraine.
Not with the current government and not during this war, I'm afraid. In peace time and with Konfederacja pulling some more strings - why not?
Resist sending any Polish forces to various American adventures around the world
Well, we are kinda their allies.
Every other point from your lists is not only feasible but also reasonable. *thumbs up*
Not with the current government
I have a hard time seeing Putin celebrating Poland's EU and NATO status.
Well, we are kinda their allies.
Defend them when they get attacked, no problem. But only when they really get attacked.
4) Allow Poles to gain work permits within Russia, on a simplified basis.
hahahaha
Yes, we need it like crazy. Millions of Poles are storming Polish Russian border to find jobs in Królewiec region.
Time will come for the rest ....after war.
With new Russia which will have 50 million people.
With new Russia which will have 50 million people
Considering that there are 110M ethnic Russians living in Russia, I will assume you are advocating a genocide against the Russian people.
Yes, we need it like crazy
I wouldn't be surprised if there were a couple hundred thousand Polish citizens that would quite like it if they had a preferential path to a Russian work permit over other Europeans. There are hundreds of Polish companies in Russia. Nobody likes to deal with bureaucracy, and it can be a huge obstacle to business.
Poland within NATO and within the EU is fully acceptable to Russians and even to our advantage.
What that means?
however, it can begin to act as Russia's advocate within the EU.
Sure to some extend, Ukrianie postion is diferent it can't be the same..
Considering that there are 110M ethnic Russians living in Russia
Don`t worry. Those other Russians will create another state while New Russia with 50 million will keep Moscow. How simple. So, stop bshyting about genocide. It is Putin which is performing genocide on Russia`s minoroties right now - they are losing thousands of young males.
There are hundreds of Polish companies in Russia.
Most of them are one person companies, like truck drivers etc. You won`t find hundred thousands Poles in them..... :):):)
What that means?
I'm a Pan-Slavist idiot. To me it means - we have a cousin inside the world's biggest economic bloc, and world's strongest military alliance. They can hopefully use their influence to make life for us Russians a little easier. Either by pressuring the EU to open its markets to Russia in a bigger way, or encouraging NATO to consider Russian interests instead of walking all over them.
Poland inside the Russian-led Customs Union, or the ODKB (military alliance), is just not realistic. We don't have as much money as the EU to shower on Poland, and Poland is still too suspicious of us to ever consider us military allies. So why rage at the wind? Better to have a hand in the game, than to have no influence at all. In the same way - I won't be upset if Serbia joins the EU.
Sure to some extend, Ukrianie postion is diferent it can't be the same
As you can probably guess from the above, we don't need you to advocate on our behalf for handouts. Just for the West to treat us as equal human beings in business dealings and foreign policy.
Poland is still too suspicious of us
Still suspicious could be said before the invasion of Ukraine. After it, it is open rejection. Stop azholing with your imperialist Pan slavism coz it is ridiculous. . As long as Russia remains what it is, there won`t be any cooperation. Don`t count that nationalists will grab power in Poland to turn it into a Russian zone again.
GefreiterKania 34 | 1493
13 Aug 2023 #435
I'm a Pan-Slavist idiot.
I object to collocating "idiot" with "Pan-Slavist".
There can hardly be a more beautiful and captivating idea than Pan-Slavism. Nations of different Christian denominations, political alliances and civilisational models, but still acknowledging their common roots and celebrating them - how can one call a pan-Slavist an idiot? A dreamer, maybe... a romantic, perhaps... but never an idiot.
I speak Italian but when I'm in Italy I definitely feel abroad. I can get by in English and UK is a nice enough country but I don't feel at home there. However, when I travel to a Slavic country, it's a doubly-nice experience because I feel almost like in Poland. :)
Serbia
The mother of all Slavia. Every Slav should take obligatory 2 weeks holidays in Serbia every year, to restore his Slavic soul to default settings. :)
There can hardly be a more beautiful and captivating idea than Pan-Slavism.
There can, actually.
Every Slav should take obligatory 2 weeks holidays in Serbia every year
Yet oddly enough 99% are happy to give the place a wide berth.
but never an idiot.
Yes, you are one after all, coz any attempt to introduce Panslavism among Slavic nations will end up with Russians trying to dominate or even conquer everybody else.
ust for the West to treat us as equal human beings
then try to _act_ like human beings instead of violence crazed thugs.... (just a helpful hint.... you're welcome).
I'm a Pan-Slavist idiot.
That would be tricky to uphold, unless stated exacally point after point what need to be done and how and to what extend.
For a moment it sounded like you would like to generouslly give Poland something we alread have...and ask money for it,
ust for the West to treat us as equal human beings in business dealings and foreign policy.
Again open to interpretation. Needs details, for example working with Germany and Russia to make USA influnce withdrew from Europe, but first Russia will help get Poland their own nukes....somtehing like that..
I told in post 416:
stop preaching at people .... are telling them you are better?
then try to _act_ like human being
Exactly.
Bobko, I told in post 416:
Bobko, when you come and say what those decent Russians said and got sentenced for, I will respect you. Right now I can only say tfu coz you are an imperialist putinist s...., you know what.
GefreiterKania 34 | 1493
13 Aug 2023 #441
for example working with Germany and Russia to make USA influnce withdrew from Europe, but first Russia will help get Poland their own nukes
See? I always said that Iron has both brains and balls.
Enough nuclear warheads to make ever invading Poland an unprofitable business and we can definitely be more flexible as far as different political configurations in Europe (from Lisbon to Vladivistok?) are concerned.
Good thinking, Iron.
That would be tricky to uphold, unless stated exacally point after point what need to be done and how and to what extend.
Definitely. I would not expect Poland to put itself in jeopardy on behalf of Russia, but it could be something like the way the Danes, Norwegians, and Swedes coordinate things that are important to them.
Not everything that is "life or death" for Denmark, is important for Norway. But I would expect Norway to at least make some noises to Washington and Brussels about Danish concerns, and how it would be nice to address them.
It's the spirit of the process that matters, more than the practical results - which may be negligible for a while.
open to interpretation. Needs details, for example working with Germany and Russia...
There is, at the moment, perhaps not so much Russia can offer Poland, as Poland may be able to help Russia with. I don't think sharing nukes is a good way to begin.
It's not like Russia can tell Brussels, "F*ck off from Poland regarding your requests to change their constitution, or else we will drop a bomb on your stupid Europarliament." We can't tell Brussels to spare Poland from waves of migrants either.
What Russia can help Poland with, is still very useful, however. The traditional Russian tool of foreign policy - energy. Energy is everything, and we can - for example - let Poland pay the same prices for gas and oil as Belarus. This will represent an enormous tax on the Russian people, but will probably at the same time make Poland the number one economy in Europe within ten years :)
To get Belarus-style energy prices, a lot has to happen however.
Besides energy, Russia can offer access to our large market, which is shared with several other states with an additional 60M people or so. We can make it easier for Polish companies to work there, than for any other EU country.
GefreiterKania 34 | 1493
13 Aug 2023 #443
Belarus-style energy prices (...) will probably at the same time make Poland the number one economy in Europe within ten years
Russia can offer access to our large market, which is shared with several other states with an additional 60M people
You had similar deal with Germany, hadn't you? ;)
OK, Iron - start negotiating. When this conversation ends, I will forward a copy to Konfederacja headquarters as well as to the editors of "Najwyższy Czas", "Myśl Polska" and "Do Rzeczy". :)
*grabs popcorn*
What Russia
It is all sounds good but seems to me that Poland would have to get nukes on its own. That means a time consuming process.
I guess it all depends what Russia would want out of it:
- sow discord between allied nations - so called west - by preteding to be serius about it.
- get a quick ressult that would help Russsia and those in charge to stay in power by ending SMO in Ukraian by a peace agrement, which is win for Russia.
- gamble and get whole set Russia wants with an expection that it is Poland who hold the key to its triump.
So key issue here is handing over some nuks to Poland as a part of a parcel or not... that changes a deal and set a timetable in motion..
Poland would have to get nukes on its own.
Don`t be infantile. You are an old pryk and still getting older but you can`t understand what I already told you 10 years ago. Poland will never get nukes.
OK, Iron - start negotiating.
Yes, he can - with his own ass. hahahahaha buhahaha
can`t understand what I already told you
I understand what you say. I just don't give F F what a moron like you has to say, don't waste your energy!
don't waste your energy!
It isn`t waste coz I have a lot of energy, no worry. :):):)
10 or 12 years ago you argued with me that Poland needs nukes. I informed you we would never get them. Tell us, after 10 years, where is Poland as far as nukes are concerned?? :):):)
where is Poland as far as nukes are concerned?? :):):
people are talking about it, that progress... The Polish Nuclear Power Programme...
GefreiterKania 34 | 1493
13 Aug 2023 #449
people are talking about it
Of course. And not only on internet boards.
Why do you think the Head of the Atomic Energy Organization of Iran came to Poland...
tasnimnews.com/en/news/2016/11/10/1237116/iran-s-nuclear-chief-meets-with-polish-president-in-warsaw
... to taste some żurek and pierogi? :)
Why do you think Polish Foreign Minister went to Iran...
gov.pl/web/diplomacy/minister-raus-first-visit-to-iran
... to sign and agreement about "cooperation in the fields of culture, education, science, sports, youth and mass media."? :))) Well, "science" is actually quite accurate. :)
Tell us, after 10 years
Yes, come back here in 10 years time, when Poland has about 300 deployed warheads and then we'll talk. :)
300 deployed
Why are you diminishing the Polish effort? It will be 500!