Jon, that's the thing. We became just normal people. We committed to Judaism. If anything I can attribute to Khazars is our need to be warriors. Everyone in my family was a competitive wrestlers or boxer. Everyone joined combat units of the military (no support units ever). And every time we buy land we plant stuff (green thumb runs deep). I spoke to distant cousins who I met on facebook not too long ago, and they said the same thing: did combat units in military spent many years doing somekind of martial arts, after military worked in security while going to college (bouncers/bodyguards, etc). Just simple country folks who respect education and warrior training. Other then that, the royal descent has been told to me over and over since I was 5 years old. Weather someone want's to or doesn't want to believe it, it is what it is. But I'm always finding things about our family and last name that point to that direction. Like 2 different looking European style family crests (unusual to see family crests from a Jewish family that did not convert to Christianity). Also my last name means: Prince of Levites or Assistant High Priest, kinda like they were honorary title to denote our families importance. And we know that my paternal heritage is not of Hebrew Levites, yet we got the Highest Levite title.
I didn't care for the article much. It is not well reserched. Just another guy stating his opinion to debunk the Arab claim. Another side of the extreme coin.
One million people....with all that mixing and begettin going on you choose to be a Khazar rather than something less exotic. Reminds me of the people who have that hypnotism thing and turn out to be Cleopatra not the local bottle washer.
If I were half the man my father was and so on backwards, I would be descended from giants but I'm not just bottle washers
Also my last name means: Prince of Levites or Assistant High Priest, kinda like they were honorary title to denote our families importance. And we know that my paternal heritage is not of Hebrew Levites, yet we got the Highest Levite title.
If anything, the name Segal indicates that you are a Levite and there couldn't have been any Khazari Levites. What's this fixation on the Khazars? It's like a modern englishman insisting that his family are Druids and that he has an irresistable urge to put big stone slabs in a circular pattern. If you're a Jew that should be enough to make you proud. Why look for an imaginary identity? And what's with the "warrior" thing? Do you wear a hat with horns and run around with a cape too?
I know you think it's an imaginary identity, but being a white guy, who's dad told you that his dad told him his whole life that we are descendants of Jewish royalty from the South. It is what it is. And you know what, genetic testing proves we are related to Hungarians, Chuvash, and other Turkic tribes, so there it is! But really, I think all white Jews even of not Khazar origins should consider JAO instead of Israel. I have no interest in mixing with dark Jews, I have never dated one and never will. Never found girls with dark hair or dark skin that much attractive (except Chicanas, but would never marry one). And there are a lot that come across different Q1b haplogroup website that wonder... "I'm white, I have red hair or it's common in my family do I have the same haplogroups thst point to Turkic origins, or get encouraged from other people who have done the tests, and go do it and find out that yup, it's true for them.
But I'll tell you like this cousin, I know religious Jews and Zionists think every Jews belongs in Israel... I'm of the opinion that white Jews should consider making a place for themselves, like JAO for example (and a bunch of us have committed to start an expat community there). Most of us do not feel in sink with the greater Jewish community, We feel Jewish, just not Semites. As they say you do you, and I'll do me.
Yehudi... it's a white thing, you wouldn't understand. lol
Yehudi, you really need to read writings about Khazars written by Arabs who lived among them and wrote about them, not articles written by Zionists who obviously will write anything to debunk Arabs.
but what's more realistic, that Ashkenazi Jews who never mixed with outsiders mixed with a group of Jewish of Khazar origin, or that there is a such a huge number of white goim that mixed in when mixing was almost unheard of? And why are Red hair only atributed to Ashkenazi Jews, when all you anti Khazar theorists claim that David and Solomon are gingers? How come Sephardi Jews are not described as having lots of red heads, or Morocan, Yemeni, etc?
Anti Khazar theories are just bull, by ignorant people who refuse to read material, and are just upsessed with anything that might harm their claim to Israel.
For all of you it's about Israel, not the truth!!!
It took you a bit longer than normal to get onto the anti Israeli stuff with this Khazar fantasy. Your story, at a stretch is just about believable, once the Anti Israel stuff (plus dark skin etc) came in then I'm convinced it's just made up.
I wouldn't be Israel's biggest fan but I don't need a fantasy and invented history to have legitimate criticisms of the place.
Here's some education for the above anti Khazar "theorists" (bulls#!t artists is more like it!):
1. Khazars Asiatic? If Khazars were Asiatic, then so would be all the other groups Khazars are known to be related to: Magyars (Hungarians), Bulgars, Tatars, Azeri, Chuvash, etc. But all are white non Asiatic people.
2. Turkic Asiatic? I asked Kazakhs (Turkic people) who have a heavy Asiatic genome mixing if they were Asians mixed with white people? They told me NO, they were white people who mixed with Asians. Turkic language group is one of the biggest groups in the Aryan (Indo-European & Indo-Iranian) Language family. They are all Caucasian people. But many Turkic people in Southern Russia have mixed with Mongolian groups ( likeTurkmen).
3. Red hair Jewish trait? I know the stories of David and Solomon being ruddy... and no other Jewish group except European Jews is known for red hair, if red hair was a Jewish trait it would show up among Yemeni, Mizrahi, Sephardim in high volume. Red hair is a receive gene, which means that if both parents have red haired ancestors 1 in 4 kids at least will be red haired, that's why you can find red headed black people (I got one in my class), but not blonde black people. This gene is extremely strong and would be seen in other Jewish groups in high volume. But that is not so!
Since none of you have done much reading about Khazars (as seen from your ignorant postings about turkic people and Khazars themselves), here's some quotes from Arab writers who lived with Khazars and wrote about them (look it up;):
"The 10th-century Muslim geographer al-Istakhri claimed that the White Khazars were strikingly handsome with reddish hair, white skin and blue eyes."
"According to Hispano-Arab historian and geographer Ali ibn Musa ibn Sa'id el-Maghribi (1213-1286), who wrote that "their complexions are white, their eyes blue, their hair flowing and predominantly reddish, their bodies large and their natures cold. Their general aspect is wild." It would seem evident, therefore, that from here derives the epithet "the red Jews."
"The investigation of the genetic relationship among three Jewish communities revealed that Kurdish and Sephardic Jews were indistinguishable from one another, whereas both differed slightly, yet significantly, from Ashkenazi Jews. The differences among Ashkenazim may be a result of low-level gene flow from European populations and/or genetic drift during isolation. In comparison with data available from other relevant populations in the region, Jews were found to be more closely related to groups in the north of the Fertile Crescent (Kurds, Turks, and Armenians) than to their Arab neighbors."
The last statement is from The American Journal of Human Genetics, here's a link: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
Your first three points are hearsay and supposition, and of your three quotes, the first was written 40 generations ago about a now extinct group, the second was written over two centuries after the Khazars fell, and tthey hired tells us nothing about the groups of people who lived over a thousand years ago called the Khazars
"Avraham ibn Daud, a renowned writer, who reported meet rabbinical students from Khazar in Toledo, Spain in the mid-12th century wrote: Khazars remained in Southern Russia over 200 years after Khazaria was incorporated into greater Kievan Rus Kingdom"
That brings it up to 1200's! Lithuanian Karaim (the name Khazars adopted after being incorporated into Southern Russia;) were brought to Lithuania to serve as guards in about 1400 AD, while other Karaim (Khazars) moved everywhere in between Lithuania and Hungary! The only dark part is 1200 to 1400, but it is known that they mostly farmed and raised cows, and lived in piece. And nothing unusual happened, and Karaim is just a branch of Judaism, so they just became known as Jews;)
So if it offends your senses to call me a Khazar, call me Karaim, or Karaite!
By the way, it doesn't 'offend my senses'! If however you're making an absolutely wild statement about an extinct culture having continued, you really ought to provide some proof. That someone had written about them 800 years ago is no proof of any continuity today. Just the realms of fantasy.
That still leaves a 400 year gap, therefore your argument still falls down. Lithuania (I know it well) has its own traditions. Not those of another group from far away and a thousand years before.
Really, you're making an incredibly wild claim without supplying anything to back it up except your own beliefs and one irrelevant tourist show.
Quite interesting that you start to insult people when you're called out on this, however the claim youre making is still very bizarre with not one, single anthropologist ever alluding to it. Were there really a tangible continuation of the Khazar culture which died out over a thousand years ago there would be at least a PhD in it for somebody and probably a flurry of books.
Your reasoning isn't up to par since you have not contributed a single fact or a single reference! Just your opinions.
As far as a PhD, right after I get my MBA, that's exactly what I was thinking of doing for fun, getting a degree in History (Masters and later a PhD) with a thesis and then a book in this study (There is even a University called Xazar in Azerbaijan;). And since the more I dig about my family, the more "cool" stuff tends to show up, I'm sure there are more and more things that will come out. The reason it makes no sense to you is simple, this is not you "lane" (you really need to argue by bringing in references, not saying, I don't believe none of them, it's like talking to a drunk!). After the fall of Khazaria, Khazars, who by that time were already heavily involved in farming were only distinguishable from other populations by their faith, and thus became known as Karaim! Karaim is a branch of Judaism, so obviously they just became known as Jews. I'm a Jew, my descent is mostly from the people who left Southern Russia about 600 to 800 years ago and settled in Belarus, not Hebrews who left Jerusalem and surrounding areas 2,000 years ago. I got a written family tree dating back almost 300 years, and in our family mixing with non Jews is unheard of. We all look very white, non Semitic, straight red hair, slightly Asiatic eyes, rounded faces is our key traits, even on distant cousins. We do not look like Polish, Russians, or Ukrainians, and genetic testing confirms that we are much closer related to Chuvash, Hungarians, and Turks rather then Slavs, so to say that we are a product of Hebrews mixing with non Jewish people of the region we lived in is completely inaccurate. But I'm sure you'll say DNA testing is bull too. ;o)
Thanks, but my reasoning is more than up to par and I don't exactly lack academic qualifications either.
Your theory is all very interesting, but unfortunately you don't back it up with anything solid. I don't have to, since I'm not making any wild assertions. Hair colour and partial family trees (with a 700 year gap) prove nothing.
You are making a bizarre claim - that a culture extinct for 1000 years has somehow continued - perhaps you can cite some anthropologists who think the same.
For the purposes that 99.9% of people use it the answer is yes it is rubbish.
Two quotes (read the full statement)
For example, many estimations of genetic ancestry are designed to distinguish contributions from geographic regions which were prominent in colonial era population movements, especially as they affected the New World (e.g., West Africa, Europe, East Asia, and the Americas). This creates a bias that may lead us to define ancestry in reference to particular sociopolitical groups, rather than the wider range of demographic influences on our genome architecture or diversity.
And
One problem is that the "ancestral populations" assumed by some methods are not explicitly represented in these databases - and indeed cannot be represented, because we do not have the ability to sample true ancestral populations.
In short these tests are a racket with a "race to the bottom" in terms of price leading to reduced accuracy with no explanation of what the results mean cos they were probably written by the guy who wrote the last Sunny D advertisement.
And nothing both of you said points to anything I said as false. So far all the people who have the q1b haplogroup (Turkic people haplogroup) out of the Russian Jews either have red hair or have family members who are red haired. So what's more likely, that the reason they have red hair is because they are descended from a known group of red heads who converted to Judaism, or that they just happen to get it from Russo/Polish?Belarus people who barely have any members with this one feature? And Joh, what "academic" qualifications are you talking about? A Degree in engineering? lol
They're quite likely to have got it from various sources, however this is irrelevant -you are trying to muddy the water by bringing in DNA when you were earlier talking about culture. There is no link between culture and DNA just as there is no link between the Khazars of 1000 years ago and anyone alive today.
I don't know what you mean about engineering degrees. As far as I know an M Eng is pretty demanding, however I've only had contact with very good universities. My own bachelors and masters were the old fashioned rigorous kind from such places. Looks good on the CV!
I suppose all the Ginger Scotsmen are friggin Jewish Khazars,sorry, unlike the others I wont pander with this pseudo inteelkshoeall bollox, you are talking arse mate,simple as.
The last bit,mocking someones engineering Doctorate,lols, who do you think you are,Sheldon friggin Cooper........
Magyars (Hungarians), Bulgars, Tatars
All from central asia.....asiatic,well,they all were untill so many of them shagged the natives....... No point in reading further as ,if you got that wrong you will get everything wrong. Get the small details wrong why should anyone believe anything you say?
So what's more likely, that the reason they have red hair is because they are descended from a known group
You really dont understand what you are saying, people can have the same markers but look completely different, eye and hair colour for example.
It is therefore important to consider whether these markers measure ancestryalone, or whether they also reflect shared environmental exposures (and thus are not always indicative of shared ancestry).
You have no evidence that you are a Khazar person you may well be but its very unlikely.
And still everything you said is nothing more then your opinions.
Not my opinion but the opinion of the scientific community.
You asked for support for my post I went out of my way to find something without numbers and symbols that everyone could read otherwise you would get a load of links to scientific journals.
Claiming ginger hair and almond eyes as some sort of proof of ancestry demonstrates a misunderstanding of the subject. Believe what you want just don't claim a scientific basis for that belief.
I've gotten offered into quiet a few groups: KKK, Posse Comitatus, skinheads. When my dad came out and stayed with me in Texas, he was joking that he was going to join the KKK. Living in L.A. can do that to you. (lolevich!)
I know you think that I'm trying to show you how important I am to European culture, and because Khazars "are Europeans", stopped the spread of Islam to Europe. But the real truth is when I'm among most Europeans. I feel like a guest. I'm like a ghost. I look like all of you, but I only feel half related to you same about Semitic Jews. I like to visit your country your culture, but I just wanna live among my own. So I made it my life's mission to do what ever it takes to convince as many of us to move to a "magical, mystical place, I like to call Zion", Jewish Autonomous Oblast.
When I was talking about my people, I meant Segal ( Segal, Sagal, Shagal, Segalchik, Segalevich, Segaliovich, Segalov, Segalovich, Segalovskij, "Segel, Segelman, Segelson, Segelevich, Segil, Seglin, Segolov-Shchegolev, Sejgal, Sejgalus, Sejgel, Sigal, Sigalchik, Sigalskij, Sgalov, Sigalovich, Sigalovskij, Sigalus, Sigolovich, Sycal, Sycalovskiy, Tsigal, Tsigal, Tsycal, Tsoglin, Salal, Dagalchik, Sagalin, Sagalov, Sagalovich, Sagalovskij, Sagelevich, Saglovskij, Sagol, Sagolovich, Sogalov, Sogalov-Shchegolev, Sogalovskij, Sogolov, Sogolovich, Sogolovskij, Shegal, Shegal, Shegalov, Shegelman, Shejgal, Shigalov, Shugal, Shugol, Shugul, Shagaliovich, Shagalov, Shagelman, Zegal, Zegelman, Zigal, Zigelman, Zygal, Zagel) and everyone related to us.
I get enough people who recognize my "true blue royal ass"
PS. Just found a 3rd family crest, with our last name on it.
No, Khazars became Jews because they thought that being the founder religion and always having Islam to one side and Christianity to another, it would bring a balancing effect.
The Interest is one of the most necessary tool in the development of the economy.
That's why Islam stagnated, no one wanted to give any money for any building of enterprises.
