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Poland, Ukraine population loss in 20-th century


Vlad1234 14 | 575
19 May 2019  #1
How large impact, do you think, the population loss that Poland and Ukraine experienced in 20-th century had on the development of this countries? First of all, I mean looses in WWI, Russian Citizenship War, Russian-Polish War of 1920, Holodomor in Ukraine, WWII and also numerous immigration out of these countries? Can we tell that both countries lost many of its best people?
pawian 161 | 9,916
19 May 2019  #2
Yes, best people from the elites were purposefully persecuted by occupants and often perished, with disastrous effects for the country. I see it even today - intelligent people who are able to think independently are the minority in Poland.
OP Vlad1234 14 | 575
19 May 2019  #3
And how do you think Poles and Ukrainians would live now if not all these population looses?
pawian 161 | 9,916
19 May 2019  #4
I don`t know about Ukraine but I believe Poland would have developed more dynamically than it has so far. And instead of copying technologies from other countries, we would invent more of our own.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,669
19 May 2019  #5
It's quite remarkable to see how many "intelligent" people actually just repeat what politicians say.

An interesting question would be to ask what would Poland look like today if WW2 didn't happen? I've said it before, but I reckon civil war would have broken out by the 1950's at the latest, and there would possibly be a couple of decades of political instability before some sort of power-sharing agreement was put into place with the three largest nationalities having mandatory representation in government.
OP Vlad1234 14 | 575
19 May 2019  #6
Do you think Russian Revolution would take place in 1917 if there would be no WWI?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,669
19 May 2019  #7
Yes, I think so. The Romanovs were weak regardless of WW1, and with people such as Dostoevsky having great influence over the Russian people, I think it was a matter of time. The only thing is that I'm not sure the Bolsheviks win, or even rise without WW1.
kaprys 2 | 1,868
19 May 2019  #8
@delphiandomine
Why do you think there would have been a civil war?
Ironside 48 | 9,790
19 May 2019  #9
Because he believes very strongly that multiculturalism is a very good idea that actually works.
OP Vlad1234 14 | 575
19 May 2019  #10
Yes, the downfall of an absolute monarchy in Russia was rather inevitable, but Bolsheviks in power and citizenship war in Russia is a different thing.

Is it really always bad idea? Do you think, for example, that representatives of different ethnic European cultures cannot live together and cooperate efficiently? For example Poles, Germans, Ukrainians, Italians, Greeks?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,669
20 May 2019  #11
Why do you think there would have been a civil war?

Largely because of the way that Poland was heading in the late 1930's. Pilsudski was dead, and the Składkowski.government was turning more and more hostile towards minorities. You had educated Poles demanding (and getting) restrictions against Jews, you had Ukrainian schools/groups/organisations getting closed down, and most of all, you had personality cults building up around people in the government. There were also reasons for neighbouring countries to fuel conflict in Poland, and I think it would all have ended up in conflict. The Polish majority would never have understood life in mixed areas, and I think things would have just exploded at some point.
ZigZag - | 2
9 Aug 2019  #12
@Vlad1234
When Germanys population surpassed that of France she started to throw her weight around before that it was France.So population is one huge component in both defending and going on the offensive.Poland should have a population that takes into consideration Germany on the west and Russia on the east.In the past and even today it's population is to small and needs a baby boom.
OP Vlad1234 14 | 575
10 Aug 2019  #13
Do you think government payments can change that completely? How much government needs to pay for the second, the third, etc. child?.. Yes, if situation isn't going to change our nations, cultures, languages going to disappear irreversibly.
Rich Mazur 4 | 3,581
10 Aug 2019  #14
It's no going to make a dent. For reference, a baby from conception till 18 is a quarter million buck undertaking here. That amount buys a lot of BMW's and vacations in Aspen so why ruin that with kids.

Plus, the wife is probably the bread winner and guys, even after the transition, are still not capable of making babies. Big problem and not going away any time soon.

Only a major war can produce another baby boom.


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