Kashubians are nation in Poland?

But you can`t deny Polish Sarmatian ie Serbian origin. No true Poles desire to give up on Sarmatism. Give up from it and you giving up from yourself.

If I rule Slavic world, there would be peace around Sarmatism. Somebody would say `I am Sarmatian and Catholic`, other would say `I am Sarmatian and Orthodox`, other would say `I am Sarmatian and Protestant`, other would say `I am Sarmatian and Buddhist`, other would say `I am Sarmatian and Slavic rodoverists`, and so on.

My answer to all would be `How nice`.

All would be welcome to be whatever they want, united around Svetovid as common point.

If I rule.

I deny all that nonsense. Originally, we were fish. Or frogs. So what?

In my entire 25 years in Poland, nobody mentioned any of that Sarmatian crap even once. How did we manage to survive without that revelation? Oh, yeah, it was the Soviet tanks and artillery...not our Sarmatian DNA.


...and by that time, "Sarmatian" would have lost all meaning. You might as well be saying, I am Sarmatian with two legs and two hands and a Buddist.


Svetovid is a piece of wood and no better than a telephone pole. Actually, telephone poles are more useful.

If you think so papacy would globalize you and merge you with Latinos, Arabs, Turks and Africans and you would be even happy in the process.


Vatican is powerful and cunning.


You survived because you are Sarmats. That is why help came from Gavrilo, not from Vatican or western Europe.


It would be uniting point. Religion would be private thing, and dominant culture would be Sarmatian. Plus common origin, if you want all the way from frog. But Sarmatian frog, in my book.


And what is cruciforma or picture of bleeding Jesus?

A picture of bleeding Jesus is a picture of a real person known as Jesus who was bleeding. Svetovid is fiction.

I can make another one in a day or two and declare him to be the God of Palatine.

Please, tell me that you are not trying to make the two equal.

Me? Who am I? Am I to judge?

But I do respect fact that some believe Jesus to be God, some believe in Svetovid. Do you respect those facts. Equally?

Me? Who am I? Am I to judge?

Now you know better how moronic answers feel.
If you have a problem with telling what is real and what is fiction, you have a bigger problem than you think. So let me help you...

Jesus was real. Svetovid is fiction.

Despite my low opinion of the poster who you were referring to, it isn't actually his nonsense, or nonsense at all.

It's a mangled quote from (Danzig-born) Gunther Grass, an ethnic Kashub on his mother's side. He described them as "Too Polish for the `Germans, too German for the Poles". If you haven't read (or seen the film adaptation of) The Tin Drum, I recommend it. He writes great deal in it about Kashub identity and his take on their relationship with Poles and Germans.

Says who? Everybody has his /her local identity or should have. They are not too German for ME, so clearly Grass was searching for a nice sentence not for the truth.

The Poles could subdivided into Masurians (not to confuse with those Prussian Protestant ones), Silesians, Kuyavian, Oppolian, Lower Silesians/Red Ruthenians, Even Malopolians but those merged with Wiekoplians are what constitute core Polish people, Kurpie, Lach Sadeckie, Gorale, there is more but those are from the top of my head.

That. I feel Poland grow stronger as much as we talk on this.

Love! Give love, understanding, empathy... to the Kashub brethren that suffered multiple genocides from the Rome and Germanics. Heal them in Poland. Popes aren`t above that!

Come back Poland!

What part of "it's a quote from Gunther Grass" led you to subsequently expend energy asking who said it?


Could be, however population movements, migration, settlement, assimilation and marriage by people of Ashkenazi and/or German and/or Tatar heritage, border changes, partitions and occupations have muddied that naively blinkered historical outlook. There may yet be new groups who add to the mix, since there are people from different places settling in Poland all the time; it isn't as if there are many DNA markers specific to Poland (and of course there new markers added to the genome as populations develop).


he searched and found a good sentence, and one that reflected his experience as a Kashub. It doesn't matter whether a group is too something for you (sorry, I mean YOU) or not. He was writing about his experiences; you were not writing them for him as a proxy.

Which he wasn't, having one parent to be of a certain cultural persuasion doesn't automatically make a child to be it. That is a very simplistic outlook that doesn't take into account hundreds of factors that are at play. His experiences as a young lad in Hitler Youth must have had a much stronger effect on him, still those are only his experiences that doesn't reflect reality but only a very limited part of it as it was 90 years ago.

In other worlds - stop waffling.


Exactly, the only thing that makes Kaszubs different is the fact that they have their regional culture going strong, while others weren't really bothered much by it.

There are few others that are on par with them and many more that do not see their own local traditions as anything other than their own local tinge on their Polish identity.

Each for each own.


Are you truly insane? Reviewing some Nazi take on things? Ah, that your English take too - all about blood and fatherland eh?
Even if that doesn't make much sense, less so than in the case of Poland.
Saxons and Angles, and then Normans invalided Brits, conquered them and then marginalized them and then went about calling themslefses British and as an ingenious people of the Isles. That is not even logically coherent not to mention DNA markers and you are trying to poke holes in the Polish narrative. Are you bored?


It was a rhetorical question. Is not that uncommon you know. Yet you seems to be taken aback every time I use it.

That's a weak response, even from you. Having a Kashub parent and being born and brought up in a region populated by other Kashubs was self-evidently enough for him and those around him.

But hey, you obviously have a greater insight into his and his family's experiences back in the 1920s, 1930s and 1940s than he did...


Looks like I was wrong; that response from you is even weaker than the last (and BTW not all British people are English. Some of us mostly aren't).


Which of course they became. By the same 'logic' you're trying to use, nobody there is 'ingenious' (I assume you meant indigenous) since the landmass (like Poland) was once uninhabited.Homo Sapiens emerged from apedom in neither place. I gather that the logical fallacy that trapped you is called reductio ad absurdum.


And unfortunately an ill-chosen one, even if well-meant.

It wasn't! That was over 90 years ago or even closer to the 100. In a totally different landscape and a political reality. That region was a part of the Germany while it was ravaged by a chauvinistic totalitarians ideology. Grass was a German first and foremost, he was only playing with his second identity as Kaszubian being an artist and having attachment to the region.

Naturally Kaszubian belong to the Polish nation, not being Germanic or not being part of the Germany that long.
All this aside - his individual experience doesn't equal an objective truth. With you being a dunce I have to more oft then not go back to basics and state the obvious. geez ! Do better next time.

Do you regard being obnoxious and opinioned on issues you have at best a vague idea about your idea of being wise?


Dude that is not the point! It about narrative that builds up an artificial term to call people in the uk and ascribes to it an adjective 'native' when in fact nothing could be further from the truth. It just a myth, keep it I don't care.

My point being is that if THAT particular myth has more holes than a sieve who are you to challenge Polish take on issues in regard of all things Polish ?

Exactly! And he was writing about his own experiences and the experiences of those around him - not your experiences.,


Fortunately every narrative contains diverse voices; Gunther Grass's is the primary literary voice about the Kashubian experience.

Perhaps if you write a highly-respected canon of best-selling literary novels and are awarded the Nobel Prize for Literature, people will cionsider you as credible a voice as Dr Grass. Meanwhile, they don't


Someone who's lived there around twice as long as you ever did and is familiar with Grass's novels. And your 'take' is a Polish take, not in any sense the Polish take (not that a Polish 'take' is any more or less authoritative than a German 'take' on this very "shared" issue)..

Have you read Die Blechtrommel (The Tin Drum) or either of the other books in the Danzig Trilogy? I recommend it. Mein Jahrhundert (My Century) also gives insight into his life as a Kashub in pre-1945 Danzig.

Do "Kashubians" speak Polish at home?

Of course. Also some people regard Kashubian as a dialect of Polish.

I identify as a Kashubian (Kaszuba) myself. :) There is a strong feeling of ethnic identity among us, and yes - Kashubian IS a different language (not a dialect!) but it is all within a greater Polish ethos. People who compare Kashubia or Silesia to Kosovo, where an entirely different nation from Serbian emerged (mainly through Albanian women giving birth to babies and Serbian women... well... they probably had something more important to do), are competely ignorant.

Kashubians and Silesians are small minorities, living among overwhelming Polish majority in both regions:

- 230k Kashubians and over 2.1 million Poles in Pomerania (and these are not exclusive groups - most Kashubians identify as Poles also);
- it is the same in Silesia - 800k Silesians among over 7 million Poles in both Upper and Lower Silesia (double identification applies as well).

Both ethnicities - Silesian and Kashubian - are Slavic peoples, speaking Slavic languages/dialects, so comparing these two minorities to Albanians in Kosovo (different nationality, different language, different religion) is beyond ridiculous.

When are you going to deal with the traitor within your ranks Herr Donald Tusk. ?

how is he a traitor? i don't get why people keep saying him and Lech Wałęsa are traitors. Lech Wałęsa is a legend.

100 years ago. If we agree that his opinion reflect some general truth, IF we assume it is about their real stance on the issue and not a response tuned to a German kid in the circumstances of the III Reich, still it would only tell us about state of affairs' 100 years ago.

What about now? That is the question. Grass and his mussing might be amusing or not but that particular take of his on the issue is outdated so much so that can hardly be of any use today.

If you have nothing else - you are out!


It is. I don't know about 50 years ago or about 50 in the future but here right now it is what any Polish (not a Soviet) person would make out of it.


They are, in a sense. As Polish nation has been build from such a small minorities whose customs and names lasted as long as there was a will and a need to keep it amongst those small minorities.

Even Warsaw as late as1526 wasn't feeling Polish but Mazovian.


Why would they deal with him? Its not middle ages, he is an individual.

I meant if they actually speak Polish at home every day, not if they are able. If they don't speak Kashubian every day, what then is that language other than another fossil?

Obviously; he was born in 1927 and wrote about his experiences growing up as a Kashub. Have you read any of his stuff? As I said, I recommend it.


s you know, the Soviet Union was dissolved in 1990. What, in your opinion makes someone a "Soviet person"?


This is true, about Poland and most other places over a certain size.

And the great thing is that not only is the number of minorities growing, but they're also increasingly assertive about their own identities. This can only be good.

This is debatable. There isn't a very distinct line beyond which you can tell that the dialect becomes a separate language. Some liguists say that Kashubian is a language, some say that it is not. If you take Silesian, for example, when you listen to dialects spoken in villages, they differ no more from standard Polish than the Mazovian dialects spoken in Mazovian villages do. They are very easy to understand for every Pole. But if you listen to the Silesian dialects spoken in towns, you can immediately hear a lot of words of German origins which make these dialects much less comprehensible to a standard Polish speaker, so they immediately think: oh, my God, how it is different from Polish!

One of the major obstacles for recognizing Silesian as a language is the many existing variants of Silesian which are likely to differ a lot between themselves too.

As for Kashubian, Pomeranian tribes had been separated from the rest of the Lechitic dialects in the Middle Ages, so they may have developed more distinct features from standard Polish than Silesian dialects. But I guess the grammatical structure of Kashubian is exactly the same as in Polish: the same set of cases, and of tenses, with diferences in vocabulary only. Or am I wrong?

Yes. Linguists have been arguing about this for over a century.

Proof positive it's bs. If it's the same as Polish, time to cancel it. Instead, Poles made this abomination into a shrine in 2005.

stop talking rubbish, will you. You are retarded aren't you? I mean you are dysfunctional on a social level.


which maybe important for the linguists to keep arguing about it but it doesn't impart any light on the issue we are talking about in this thread.

An almost-the-same language makes as much sense as almost the same math. Is 2 x 2 = 3.95 in the Kashub world?

It makes a lot of sense if you think about it. People are actually commutating this way believe it or not.
I don't care about that. I'm talking about your proclivity to cancel languages and everything you don't like or don't understand, what up with your cancel culture eh?

it would be more practical and simple to cancel you ....

Kashubian sounds so strange I wouldn't call it a dialect of Polish - as for Silesian, I'm probably just more familiar with it and understand quite a lot, so I personally would call it a dialect of Polish (Germans called Silesian Wasserpolnisch before 18th century)- I'm not sure if there are definite rules in linguistics as to what should be called a dialect and what a language (facebook considers Silesian a language) - Górale speech is similarly distinct from Polish in the degree and it is considered a dialect

Hey, just learning from the leftists.


You can do it this minute if you wish.

The US is the single greatest country on earth because of what we have in common, not because of the multicultural crap and petty differences like Kashub vs Polish. Canada almost fell apart because of that desire to protect and celebrate their differences. Scotland is close to that point. Yugoslavia is just a stain on the sidewalk. Viva la difference, my as*.


It's a speech of the primitive and the uneducated. Try to run for President of Poland or the dean of a major university speaking Goral.