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Poland: Her heroes and her traitors


Bren 1 | 3
15 Mar 2014 #151
That is an interesting response. Can you tell me what the other side is?
day zha voo
16 Mar 2014 #152
Rather distasteful airing of private dirty laundry in public with no chance of a right to reply as the person being slandered in this fashion is dead.

I imagine from the joining for one thread and using the name "Bren" you are in England so probably have a personal connection to this story,that is the only reason I am staying polite.

What are your aims here? To demonstrate that people have feet of clay or that many tens of thousands of wartime marriages ended in various shades of tragedy?

I rather imagine you have never got up in a morning expecting to die consumed in flames or gone to sleep at night with the blood of young men on your hands and the last screams of your closest friends echoing in your ears.

If you have feel free to pass public judgement on a man who did.
Many of our greatest "heroes" were psychologically destroyed by the war and its a sad fact that this was never admitted to at a time when these men,and their families could have been helped.
Marek11111 9 | 816
16 Mar 2014 #153
would you image to bringing wife with two kids to communist Poland after ww2, they would have been prosecuted and maybe jail and dead shortly after moving to Poland. He might not have means to go back to England too so if you not in his shoes you can not judge his motives.
gask7 - | 50
16 Mar 2014 #154
if you not in his shoes you can not judge his motives.

Right. Do you know Bren what can happened to someone who returning from West to Poland after II WW after serving in the west army ?

doomedsoldiers.com
day zha voo
16 Mar 2014 #155
To be fair to Bren He/She does not seem to be claiming life would have been easy in the immediate post war years. Bren seems to be more focused on the period once the thaw had set in from the 1960s onward.

Not knowing the mind of the slandered gentleman (who granted did not seem to act like one) one cannot comment on his reasons for his actions at times when he could have acknowledged his British family openly but with this in mind I for one feel uncomfortable seeing such a one sided version of events. Maybe, and I only say maybe ,if this gentleman was suffering from what is now known as PTSD it would not be an unknown "coping strategy" to coldly blank out anything and anyone from the time when the trauma was caused.

So I say again Bren,if you have done anything comparable to climbing into a canvas skinned aeroplane with 30 seconds worth of feeble machine gun ammunition and flown directly into the path of 100+ Bombers and Fighters upto 4 times a day for weeks on end,then feel free to slag off publically someone who has.
grunny
23 Mar 2014 #156
After completing 83 combat sorties this gentleman was shot down over France in 1942 and interned in a nazi camp until the end of the war. Who knows what he may have suffered during this time. Not only that but it seems he was victimised by 'authorities' after he had returned to Poland.

While it is tragic and difficult for mother and two children to cope without husband and father - neverthless this man should be respected for his brave efforts during the war.

If he was victimised in life, then surely he should be honoured in death.

grunny
gjene 14 | 203
23 Mar 2014 #157
Regarding the surviving daughter or others of the family left behind, there might be a way to dispute the given records. From the 2nd world war until the late 90's it would have been a bit more difficult to prove connection unless you actually had the paperwork. But then there could be claims that the paperwork was forged and photos were dodged to make it look like there was some connection. But with DNA being used to prove family connections now, this might be a way of proving or disproving that Mr. Buchwald was the father. But to do so would mean going through the courts in order to exhume the bodies of the deceased in order to obtain DNA to substantiate claims. Going through the courts would be costly in order to prove a point.
jon357 66 | 16,142
23 Mar 2014 #158
His private life is his business and his separation and second family are not unique.
Nickidewbear 23 | 584
3 May 2014 #159
Merged: Romuald Rajs: Hero Or Not?

I can't tell whether he was a Nazi or a Polish fighter against Nazism and Communism.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837
3 May 2014 #160
He was a bit of both, i.e. hero and villain. He fought against the Nazis and then against the Communists (after the end of WW2), but unfortunately made some bad decisions and pacified several Belorussian villages in the process.
gask7 - | 50
7 May 2014 #162
You can find much more information about Romuald Rais "Bury" on the web sites of IPN ( Instytut Pamięci Narodowej ) e.g.
ipn.gov.pl/wydzial-prasowy/komunikaty/informacja-o-ustaleniach-koncowych-sledztwa-s-2802zi-w-sprawie-pozbawienia-zyc ( sorry only polish version ).

The decision to discontinue the investigation concerns the following criminal events;
1. on 29.01.1946r. in the village Zaleszany deprivation of life by shooting and burning of 16 people and the attempted killing of other residents by enclosing them in a house that was set on fire and cause burn injury by at least two people and committed on the same day in the village Wólka Wygonowska deprivation of life by shooting 2 people
2. on 31.01.1946r. near the village of Puchały Old deprivation of life by shooting 30 men,
3. in on 2 February 1946. in the village Zana deprivation of life by shooting and burning of 24 people and causing injuries as a result of being shot with a firearm and burns 8 residents, and made the same day in the village of Starlings deprivation of life by shooting or burning 5 people and causing injuries as a result of shootings with a firearm 4 people, out of which 2 people died, as well as bringing fire buildings of the village and the village Końcowizna

The exact description about the pacification some Belarusian villages. It is something we can't be proud of. The scale of this was much lower than 200 000 Polish people killed in Wołyń, but for survivors and victims it is not important. This wouldn't happened, never.
OP pawian 176 | 13,997
20 Aug 2020 #163
Refreshing old threads is one of our fav activities in the PF.
Ha!

Let`s first look at the traitors` side as more exciting.

So far we have been talking about following traitors:

1 Targowica members - Polish elites like aristocrats and bishops who rejected the 3rd May Constitution and opted for Russian intervention and the 3rd partition as a result.

2 Iwo Sym - a Polish actor of Austrian origin who collaborated with Nazis
3 Janusz and Bogusław Radziwiłł - magnates who rejected the legal king of Poland and collaborated with invading Swedes
4 Wacław Krzeptowski - leaders of Gorale Highlanders who collaborated with Nazis
5 Bolesław Piasecki, far right nationalist, collaborated with Soviets after WW2.
6 We mentioned Polish communists who ruled the country under Soviet control

There was a hot discussion whether to consider Ryszard Kuklinski a traitor. Some posters opted for it while I refused to.

Any ideas? I have a few new guys on my mind.....

PS. Let me remind you we are talking about past, not modern times. I could include contemporary rightists but this thread deals with history.
OP pawian 176 | 13,997
1 Sep 2020 #164
In this post we mentioned general Bołtuć who died in September 1939 leading his soldiers to a bayonette attack.
polishforums.com/history/poland-heroes-traitors-40945/2/#msg1157660

Another hero who gave his life in 1939 was captain Władysław Raginis, who defended Wizna fortifications against massive German attacks. He surrendered his troops but killed himself with a grenade. Honour and Motherland.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82adys%C5%82aw_Raginis

The group Sabaton made a famous song about the defense:

youtu.be/epeQwq-aYV0





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