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Battle of Vienna - history movie about Poland / Commemoration


mafketis 24 | 8,743
12 Sep 2020 #31
.I personally will surely have died out till then

nihilism... the disease of prosperity and neoliberal sterility*... countries that stop thinking about the future won't have one (or as one person put it: the future will belong to those who show up for it).

*countries that accept neoliberalism in its stronger forms are obliged to massively increase immigration because neoliberal sterilizes native populations.
Ironside 49 | 10,481
12 Sep 2020 #32
So....Poland did always everything right?

Dude I have answered your question about what I would have changed given rule over Poland and time travel ability.
I would have either take French hand and ally with Czechoslovakia against Germany before Munich agreement or I would just play along and hand over Gdansk and whatnot.

Gov in Poland was delusional and played anti-German rhetoric and gesture to gain an upper hand in their interval strife for power.
Bratwurst Boy 7 | 10,434
12 Sep 2020 #33
countries that stop thinking about the future won't have one

I have done my thinking and like to believe I have influenced some of the future of my country, now it's the next generation...it's their future after all, they have to shape and to live it!

because neoliberal sterilizes native populations.

...is that so? Something in the water? Or the toothpaste? :)

or I would just play along and hand over Gdansk and whatnot.

I now came to think that wouldn't had stopped Hitler at all. His rise could and should had stopped. IMHO the end of WWI was handled so badly it paved the way.

But Poland profited mightily from the treaty of Versailles. So...I'm searching for a more fair treaty for both of our peoples but I can't find any...especially not with the French sitting on the table.
mafketis 24 | 8,743
12 Sep 2020 #34
Something in the water?

It turns having children into an economic-monetary burden rather than a family or community oriented event (it's a bit more complex but the correlation between neoliberalism and declining birthrates and the subsequent need to import people from countries unaffected by neoliberalism is pretty obvious if you look).
Vlad1234 16 | 716
13 Sep 2020 #35
What you really fear is the end of the Western Civilization as you know it

Try to define "Western civilization". Rather I worry about civilization in general. It was a joke about Turks in particular. I do NOT see them as a civilization destroyers. Rather it is an interesting culture. There should be a reasonable balance between our worries about our own fate and the fate of a next generations even if we personally have no children. What would happen to us now if our ancestors (not necessarily the direct once) wouldn't care about the future of our civilization in slightest? We don't know how long we will personally live. Someone could invent an "immortality" when we will be very old. I have suspicion that such methods may exist already. Those people who could be our grand-grandchildren may invent it. And someday we may use it. So, let pay a due respect for forthcoming generations and their fate.
Tacitus 2 | 1,031
14 Sep 2020 #36
It is interesting to see how much the perception of historical events can differ between countries. In Europe the siege of Vienna is often seen as a pivotal moment, while e.g. from a Turkish point of view, it is oftwn seen as a minor setback. This view is supported by the fact that the Ottoman Empire was capable of conducting a succesful war against Russia only a few years later. Instead Turkish historians often view the the the Austro-Ottoman war of 1716-1718 as the decisive moment, because it not only lead to the most humiliating military defeat in Ottomam history, but also definitely showed that the Ottoman Empire no longer required a large coalition against it.

One way to reconcile those views may be to speculate about what would have happenes if the Ottoman army had taken Vienna. No doubt that the Ottomans would have been able to gain favourable peace terms, but would they have been able to demand the city? And if they did, would they have been able to hold on to it? As historians have pointed out, the Balkans were always an unprofitable part of the Ottoman Empire and a drag on its' ressources. Pacifying a conquered Austria might have been even more taxing. Adding to that the Ottoman Empire faced several internal and external threats, thus making holding on Vienna even more untenable. Furthermore if we look on how politics unfolded at this time, a great deal was placed by the actors to prevent too large gains by a single party, thus upsetting the balance of power. It is thus entirely possible that an Ottoman victory at Vienna would have lead to a bigger anti-Ottoman coalition down the line.

Personally I suspect that an Ottoman victory would have benefited France the most, and allowed it to make even bigger gains into Germany than it already did.


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