Historical look at various civilisational differences between Russia and the West

How many people did Russians kill "in Union with the Nazis" (why the capital letter in Union)? Give me a rough number, and then compare it to the number of Russians slaughtered by the nazis.

It's like saying that Poland lost 6 million citizens in WW2 but first acted "in Union with the Nazis" by invading Czechoslovakia. It may be accurate to some extent but also misleading and distorting the general picture of events.

On 1st September 2009 in Westerplatte there were both Vladimir Putin and Angela Merkel present...

... and it was generally acknowledged, even by Russians, that Ribbentrop-Molotov pact was a mistake and that Poland was a victim. These days it is no longer widely accepted narrative in Russia, and Poland is depicted as a country that contributed to the outbreak of WW2 and our cooperation with Nazi Germany in the partition of Czechoslovakia is stressed.

If you look at foreign and historical policies back then, and compare it to the hate-fest towards both Germany and Russia that PiS is having today, then you can only marvel at the idiocy and deplore how much was destroyed in such a short time.

Not to mention that leading both anti-German and anti-Russian politics at the same time never ended well for Poland.

Those intelligent ones certainly do understand. They go abroad and follow the events and reactions of govs and of common people to Russian foul behaviour


It is a lie, of course. I constantly mention decent Russians who oppose the war, Putin and Russian imperialism in general. The problem is they are huge minority.

And you still don`t understand why the attitude to Russians has changed?? Do you pretend to be a cretin or you really don`t???


Said Bobko, according to his own words, residing in the US, the biggest enemy of Russians. hahahaha


So, Bobko, when are you coming back to Russia??:):):)

Of course you won`t. Because it is natural you prefer to have a true jaccuzzi in the US than a cesspool in Russia.

Stop twisting coz it is useless. Half of your post is your stupid teaching maf Polish. He wasn`t asking for education in the Polish language, he wrote full scale invasion in English so why do you have a problem???


Stop manipulating, Kania. It doesn`t matter if they killed 50.000 or 5 million. The fact is that Soviet Russians killed ANY people being allied with the Nazis.

First, they killed Polish soldiers and civilians in 1939-41 during a war and occupation. Then, they killed people in the Baltics and part of Romania. Then, in Finland. All these killings were done within the Ribbentrop Molotov Pact.

I think it is about 1 million people.


You liar! There was no formal agreement between Poland and Nazi Germany! While Soviet Russians did have such an agreement.

Kania, I can`t recognise you. This Russophilia is slowly eating out your brain, like this infamous carnivorous bacteria.

You are sugesting it was Poles who destroyed the relations. AmaSSing theory! :):)


I see. Now you seem to be encouraging Poles to give up their negative attitude and support Russia.


Really? When and where was it acknowledged??? I`d rather you didn`t write new history, my boy, because I am always here to debunk your false claims. :):):)

Crno is from Montenegro. Holding him up as an example of what popular Russian attitudes are like - is like using Amiga500 as an example of what the average Pole is thinking. Meaningless.

To my knowledge there are three Russians on this board: myself, Velund, and Constantine. The three of us could not be more different, despite your constant attempts to paint us as some orc monolith.

I am a moderate, Velund is more to the right, and Kostya is... well I don't know yet, but he's an interesting guy.


Allies like a scorpion and a spider are allies when you put them both inside a jar. Incidentally, this reminds me - what forced those two together - even briefly? Ah yes, massive Germanophobia and Russophobia. After Versailles, and the October Revolution, Germany and Russia were like today's Iran and North Korea. Pariah nations, rogue states, not to be dealt with - not to embraced.

Also, they were similar with Iran and North Korea in that they simply did not want to accept Anglo-American hegemony - no matter the cost.

If you drive Nazis into the embrace of Bolsheviks, you really must know you've failed in your diplomacy at some point.

He can be living there but certainly isn`t a true Montenegran. Just another Russian like you living abroad far from his beloved Russia which is unbearable for life for an average person.


Stop playing silly games. All of you 4 Russians here are the same imperialists who support the cruel war and Putin regime. You generally support Great Imperial Russia, that`s what counts here. So stop telling us tales that you are moderate while Velund is not coz it completely doesn`t matter.


hahaha Now a poor Russian boy is crying that nobody wanted to embrace him when he was a Soviet who dreamt of conquering the world and murdered millions of people, including Ukrainians during Great Famine of 1930. boooo hoooo I am so loney, nobody wants me. hahahaha

Bobko, you are hopeless, really. :):)

The only difference is that if both of you were located in Ukraine wielding some kind of power there, e.g, commanding a concetration camp for Ukrainians, you, Bobko, would kill 5 Ukrainian males and rape 1 Ukrainians female daily, while Velund would murder 20 and rape 5. That`s the difference between you.


Oh, yeah! hahahaha

You are a monolith in the sense that all three of you love Poland. The difference is that you realise and admit it, Veli realises it but doesn't admit it, and Kostya lives in denial about it. :)

buhahaha No, they love Great Russia and come here to argue for it with false propaganda coz nobody else in the troll factory wants. :)_:):)


Yes, you are best buddies, indeed. :):):)

Sorry, Kania, bur that's not true. The Soviet Union and Nazi Germany made an actual pract in which they divided part of Europe between themselves.


I've never discussed with Putinist RuSSians who would acknowledge it as a mistake, let alone as something morally wrong. They were always justifying it in our discussions.


You must be kidding me lol All of you have pretty much the same views (at least those that matter to Poles), the same prejudices, the same hate for Ukrainians and their state, the same lack of morality and you all support the invasion of Ukraine!

As for Crno3 - even though he's supposedly a Serb (which I can believe), he's not that much different than many anti-Semitic RuSSians I've discussed with and whose comments I've read on the internet.

pact, sorry lol

You could say that two big prats made a pact though lol

I don't know about "putinist Russians" but Vladimir Putin himself talked about the "immoral character" of Ribbentrop Molotov pact...

dzieje.pl/aktualnosci/przemowienie-premiera-putina-na-obchodach-70-rocznicy-wybuchu-ii-wojny-swiatowej

... and he condemned the pact, reminding of something that people often forget: that this pact was condemned also by Soviet Congress of People's Deputies.

www2.polskieradio.pl/eo/print.aspx?iid=114967

That was during Donald Tusk's term in power though, when Poland knew how to conduct foreign policies.

We can be assertive towards Russia, we can be stubborn when need be, but we cannot be unfair, Paulina. We cannot be unfair.

One can be, but it's a road that leads to nowhere.

If Russia one day explodes into a thousand pieces, it wouldn't be because of the hurtful things said by our neighbors.

Clearly...
Kania, I meant to ask you - have you ever discussed with RuSSians about anything else besides Tolstoy, Tchaikovsky and solyanka? o_O


I guess this speech didn't reach RuSSia then and was meant for outsiders (Poles in this case).

The same was with Katyń. Putin was saying nice stuff, Medvedev gave some Katyń files to Komorowski, but the Katyń massacre somehow never reached RuSSian schools.

This Russian guy only learned about Katyń massacre when he came to Poland and he talks about how history is taught (or rather not taught) in RuSSia:

Historical truth shouldn't depend on your relations with other countries. And teaching facts may actually improve relations between countries. Knowledge is power. Maybe that's why the Kremlin doesn't want RuSSians to know the real history between RuSSia and it's neighbours - it wouldn't be so easy to manipulate the RuSSian society then and set it against RuSSia's neighbours and the West.

From your list, I recall talking about literature a lot. Music and cuisine, not so much.

Apart from that I discussed sport (mainly football), history, politics, women, cars, religion and tens of other topics that people talk about. There is not much difference in real life when it comes to social interaction that I had with Russians, Germans, the Irish, Scots, Italians or Americans.

Well, if I really had to find some characteristic points: Italians had great sense of humour, Scots were cheeky jokers too, Germans were incredibly civil (and incredibly beautiful, because - strangely enough - it was only German ladies that I met), Russians treated me almost like a member of their family, Americans were very direct but also very civil, and the Irish are by far the best drinkers of all the mentioned groups.

People are people, Paulina. I am way too old and I traveled way too much to fall for all this "orc", "SS", untermenschen nonsense. Sorry.


The truth doesn't. The way certain events are interpreted and presented depends very much on those relations.

In 2009 we had brilliant relations with Germany and Putin condemning Ribbentrop-Molotov pact in Westerplatte. Can you imagine this today?

So have you only discussed with liberal, anti-Putinist, pro-democratic, pro-Western Russians? Because you give me a strong impression of someone living in some kind of fantasy La La Land.


People in Nazi Germany were "people" too, so give me a break.


As I wrote - this clearly didn't reach RuSSian minds and schools.

Btw, did you watch that video I posted?

*sighs*

Believe what you want. Do what you want. You're an adult person.


I will.

It's not just about interpretations - in RuSSian schools even facts aren't being taught.


Hey, I can only see what I see. You didn't answer what kind of RuSSians/RuSSians you've discussed with. Is that a secret?


Thanks, but it would be even better if you watched that video.

You only asked about their political attitudes, whether they were liberal or putinist. I suppose most of them were somewhere in between - people are complicated and in most cases politics doesn't define their identity as human beings.

Also, there is a huge difference between how people talk and interact in the real life compared to internet boards. Internet tends to bring out the worst in people, and one has to be aware of it not to fall into this trap himself.


I know the guy. He's OK but a bit naive. I remember his video about being shocked and awed with Poland's military parade. The parade was impressive but Russians know exactly what we have and what we don't have, as well as our current strengths and weaknesses, so judging a country by its military parade is a bit... well, naive. I like the guy though. As for watching the video - I really can't watch all the videos posted here. I don't have that much life left. ;)

But sure, it would be nice to have a joint Russian-Polish commission to write history textbooks for schools. Maybe one day.

Yes, because that's crucial. RuSSians/RuSSians' views on history usually depend on their political views.


You "suppose"? So you don't even know that? Sorry, but those were some sh1tty discussions you were having then.


This video is 10 minutes long.
And no matter how "naive" you think that guy is - he checked all the RuSSian history textbooks, both old and new, and there's no mention of the Katyń massacre in any of them. He also showed a fragment of a textbook with instructions for teachers how they "should" teach certain stuff to RuSSian kids.


That's true, people are more honest on the internet.

"RuSSians/RuSSians"

*RuSSians/Russians

@Lyzko
f you read my post I do mention that some of the positives of Russia are its cultural contributions. Literature and music come to mind. Very general info. Russian literature and music are an acquired taste. Most people I know don't relish it. Too moronically, repetitively depressing.

I have noticed that many posts on this thread do not show great admiration and love for all things Russian. I am happy to read such posts. Someone mentioned that it was only because of Putin and the invasion that people don't care for Russians.

Unfortunately this is not so. I'm old enough to remember listening to the generation from the 1880s to 1910s. I remember them talking about the Russians. One of them, when he said anything about the Russians, would spit first. As a kid I smiled but I learned that those who came from the Russian empire, who were the furthest away from Petersburg, lived under a more repressive regime. Secret police, Russian governors, Russian troops, repressive bureaucratic administrators, etc.

...and my ignore list.

Nope, there was the agreement, and by the way, it had secret articles against Soviet Union.

....do you have a link?

But as a side note, what a photo! Look at that charm from Vladimir. Poor Merkel and DT didn't stand a chance.

youtube.com/watch?v=t0-lRajeLkc

Very precise analysis of the prewar Poland's position.

YT... the fountain of all junk knowledge.