Didn't former Polish president Alexander Kwasniewski and many other Poles basically fall over themselves apologizing to Jews for Kielce about 9 years ago????
That was actually the Jedwabne commemorating service. He did what every decent person would do. That he in fact is half Jewish has nothing to do with it.
Anyway, this thread was about historical techniques and then MediaWatch comes along and feels the need, like he always feels the need, to "show the other side of things
" when it concerns Poles killing Jews. It was uncalled for as the discussion was not about the actual killing initially, but about the chain of incident-direct impact-long lasting repercussions and reverberations. Too bad our friend from the other side didn't notice this, saw the words "Jews-Poles-Faster-Pussicat-Kill-Kill-Kill" and thought it was time to re-introduce ...The Stalin Jews! into the discussion once more. I take blame for the part that I allowed the discussion to derange into the realms where illustrations are being discussed more than the key point at hand.
Strangely enough, MediaWatch never feels the urge to "show the other side of things
" when it's concerning Jews killing Poles. Anyway, the gates of hell were opened and all of the standard Golgothians came from their pile to give it a go. None of them introduced sth new into the discussion. All of the arguments -if there were any arguments besides the usual insulting and ranting- fell within the scope of the 5 myths that haunt Polish history for the last 70-80 years. Well, at least one myth has been busted: the myth of the Jewish Communism. As it turns out this has been an invention of the propaganda machine of the White Armies during the Russian Civil War. And it's only thanks to the quality of the propaganda machine of the Whites that this fairy tale is still in the heads of ppl. Nobody has denied there were Jews within the ranks of the commies, but the statement that the vast majority of the commies were Jews is a gross exaggeration: by far the most functionaries within the Communist Party in Poland were Poles. But then again, it's hard to go kill your own ppl based on the fact that they were an active member of a party you don't like, so what do you do in that case if you really want to vent your anger and agression? You go look for members of that hated party that are not part of your own group. It's very basic psychology. And you find that there are....Jews! member of the Communist Party. Aha! There you have your vent! And this vent gets used and abused for many decades since its conception.
Then a one braincelled creature comes along, showing us 100 times the same fragment of a film in which a woman sitting on a chair is being excecuted by Polish soldiers and claims this to be a Jewish film. Unfortunately he cannot or won't give us the name of that particular movie, so we cannot check whether it is indeed a Jewish movie or not. And then the creature accuses me of lying because I am supposed to have claimed that in July 1941, 5 years before the events we are discussing, 1600 Jews were driven into a barm, that consequently was set ablaze - the historians are not yet clear whether it was Soviet leftover gasoline they used or petrol provided by the Germans. Anyhow, this creature introduces this into the discussion, alongside of the usual rants and superficial statements that he is proud to be an anti semite, never mind the dispiccable nature of such a statement and then accuses me of stating that there were 1600 Jews burned in the shed. It's a nice way of trying to lock a discussion: introducing an issue into the discussion, which has nothing to do with the actual topic at hand and then accusing sb else of lying about it. Nice, but predictable technique. Then it shows me a wiki page of a Jewish Communist police functionary in the 1950's. In 1949 he became head of some dept and this of course is proof that the commies were behind it all. Miraculous how everybody fails to acknowledge that the atmosphere could've been so poisoned and tensed that even a silly lie by an 8-year old boy could spark some extended lynch-party. They state that the incident was staged by the commies from start to finish. I think it was the natural outcome, the accumulation of a very tensed period in Polish history and that many were shocked in fact as they perhaps hadn't realised that tensions were so high it could even lead to murder of innocent survivors. I have stated that before and I state it here again.
After heading through the storm of usual insults, rantings and even lower intelligenced remarks thrown at myself, I have come to the conclusion that some Poles are not yet ready to admit any dark pages in their own history, yet are keen to point out dark pages in other's histories. I expected that and I am not surprised by it.
So far the summary of the rounds so far. Time for a new round - let the games begin; I'm curious what they will come up next with. My best bet would be sth that stems from one fo the five mentioned myths. Good luck guys :)
MG is trying to prove that Poland has always been hell on Earth for Jews and that virtually all Poles are evil, heartless murderers.
Not true. I was talking about historical techniques and trying to explain Ironside how historians worked and thereby used Kielce as an example, nothing more. Then MW bashes in and spoils the discussion. I take responsibility for letting it getting out of hand, but I do not try to convince anybody that PL was hell on earth for Jews. I just want some hardcore idiots on this forum to admit that it were Poles who did this. Has nothing to do with Jews, just with the point that ppl must find the courage to admit that even their own history has dark pages. That's all. And it's quite amusing so far to hear all the stereotypes gallopping by and actually nothing new is introduced, yet they refuse.
M-G (wonders what's next)