Polish history is 100% glorious

that is correct:)

kiss - kiss !

Got some ancestors who belonged to the glorious Świętokrzyskie brigade of the NSZ? You know, that another glorious part of Polish recent history. They devoted as much time killing Jews as collaborating with the Nazis and as such escaping Soviet wrath.

With the AK having issued death sentences on part of them because of their atrocious behave.

@sobieski
lies and propaganda!
I bet your ancestor was commie and when he run away one day, he started to pretend to be somebody else !

So you mean your ancestors were part of this outfit? Or maybe of the Blue Police ?(oh yes another part of the recent glorious past)

I'll tell you when you'll tell me about your ancestor !


What do you have against Police were your ancestors criminals ?
Never heard the song - She wore Blue uniform ?

Both of which are Polish specialties when it comes to history....

flip, flap,

I see your gob is OK!

Poles cruel, that must be a lie;)

Of course not.


Do they need any provoking to post rubbish or insults or whatever?


See, Sobieski points out a good and true point and Iron gets defensive and insulting immediately. This is the same Ironside that starts crying immediately when you make a sarcastic remark. And you want to defend guys like that?


That is true and that is what I have been saying all along. But then I was burned yet again for being anti Polish. Plus there are more posters on here that give Poland a bad name to newcomers although they pretend to fight for the the name of Poland.

@sobieski
You know, for a Belgian you make pretty decent and good remarks. Too bad you hate all the Dutch :| But then again, nobody's perfect :)

M-G (hooray for Hollywood)

No everything was glorious but Poland history is something we should be proud of.


There have been many Poles that have done terrible things but there are way more Poles that have done good things.


Your right about that one ;)

Just like in every country in the world.

>^..^<

M-G (lunch)

Not every Country ...

No, only in Poland, right?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Do you?
You are delusional if you think that you are better than me!


Point is that he is foreigner who read one maybe two books about the issue and then he comes here and make definitive moral judgements.

Most of these "facts" were fruit of communist propaganda.
How dare he ? How dare you?
Write a book about it - historical book then it something to be discussed - not some empty statements.
I think that Sobieski have some connection to Poland and want to settle some scores !


You do much more than that and you do it all the time if somebody firmly disagree with you. I don't care but you always make a big deal out of it ! Dubious standards again!?

Ziemowit
People like what? Who know the world and its ways ?
Who do not take a shit just because it comes from foreigner?
Who knows worth and value of polish traditions and history?
Who knows history of Poland a lot better than high school program?

Ever so slightly more than two.

Although I did interview two museum directors last week.

Haha, yeah right.


Ah, those darn foreigners again.


Welcome to the 21st century. These things are not important anymore in the big world out there.


Obviously not you. It's like talking to a 5-year old, but nevertheless I will give it one last shot. History is the discussions of several viewpoints towards a certain historical event. These viewpoints are exchanged and then eventually a common view will arise, a view that contains a bit of all the viewpoints mentioned before. Your truth is only your truth and it's not the complete truth as there are more truths. Wish you understood that, but like said, it's like talking to 5-year olds at times. Try reading other books than just ones from Polish historians and try to read all books with an open mind and the truth will come to you. This was my very last effort towards you - if you still don't get it, you will never get it.

>^..^<

M-G (ultimo)

It's not unusual for people to slant shistory in favory of their own country.

Unfortunately it is. Usually at historian's levels this is ignored and the discussion entered open minded, but in some countries, still struggling with their national identity it's very much an issue in all walks of life.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

It doesn't seem that unusual. In some instances, I think Americans do this very thing, we make some of what we did sound like it was a good thing when it might have been for selfish reasons and shameless profiteering.

In Western Europe it's highly unusual. If you do such a thing as historian, you can be sure to be slapped around by the other historians in a debate that has sharks for breakfast.

The US doesn't have a history as such - at least not one that goes back 600 or 700 years where the white colonisation is concerned. However, there are indeed stories made up to confirm the US's national identity, "historical" stories like Rip VanWinkle. A complete fabrication only to serve the pride of America's past.

Edit: I'd better say: Rip Van Winkle is a fictious character that has become an icon in American history. That would be more correct.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

We slant history in regards to native Americans and our treatment of them. Historians debate this a lot.

That's why you need crazy people who speak their minds, even when everyone else hates to hear it, even when they're wrong sometimes. A perfect world, devoid of criticism and questioning would be boring, and scary.

;)

I wasn't talking about you, you are a bastard but you are knowledgeable bastard.


Point is that you believe that your viewpoint is better than my viewpoint , and you try to ram it down my throat!
When I baulk, you play victim!
Why do you think that about certain events you know better ? I don't know.
However I'm able to argue from Ukrainian point of view or Jewish point of view, but this modern idea has it faults - where is the truth ? Certainly not in the middle of extreme views.

Categorical and final opinion about one country historical events are not helped by your obvious reluctance to discus certain country;s history and present.
Also you seems to treat lightly Wolyn events, to the point of dismissing it altogether, so forgive me but ignoring facts is not included into the guise of different viewpoint.


Everybody do it or did it! Point is that we discuss many issues here, one thing is historical fact, and quite another its interpretation, and yet another its implications and reasons for it!

Even witnesses could differ in reporting the same fact - great example of it move Rashōmon.
However, I study"Lwow issue" from many angles and for some time and in here I present my conclusions, as for different points of view - there plenty but I have found not one, which is not extreme in itself - and any sane person will agree with me.

Again, let's not forget that we are on the Internet forum !

I-S (see)

Sorry boy, I'm not going to discuss with you anymore. There's no point.

>^..^<

M-G (no point)

M-G either discus with me or do not discus but for goodness sake stop discussing about whatever you will be discussing with me or not - its madness !

I-S (madness)

There is the western point of view,the slavic point of view,the germanic,the communist,the nazi point of view,the anglosaxon or whatever each one has some truth definitely I usually listen to the most radical for example for WW2 I take into account the communist and Waffen SS view which agrees for almost all events.

you're right...nearly, if not, all nations do it.

usa & australia - treatment of natives
turkey - armenians and removal of greeks
spanish - inquisition
germans - ww1/ww2

just to name a few.

go to any other forum for any other country and there will be patriotism.

It is not that unusual as you might think. My home is presently in a mess due to redecorating work, but once it's done, I will give you excerpts from two British books describing the atrocities committed on Irish people by the invading English army supported by Dutch mercenaries or allies (this was in the times of Cromwell, I should think). The one entitled "Britain's Kings and Queens", one in the form of a brochure sold at the Tower of London and other tourist attractions, and thus supposed to hit a larger audience, gives an account of how cruel and totally merciless the Dutch soldiers were in fighting the Irish insurgents; no mention whatsoever of the English doing that. The other, a thicker one, "An Illustrated History of England", wrriten by an apparently left-wing British historian, has been giving a totaly different account of the events, unmercilessly blaming the English soldiers for commiting those attrocities.

Western Europe is not so "innocent" as you would like to convince us. True, it is undoubtedly much more politically correct. But the truth usually comes out in the hour of test as happened in the case of the armed Dutch soldiers who stood indifferently beside the Srebrenica killings in Bosna. Or in the case of a Dutch man who denounced Anne Frank hiding for more than two years in Amsterdam.

Usually those kind of "historic" works are not taken seriously. In NL there is a book called "De Lage Landen Bij De Zee" (The Low Countries By The Sea) and it's full of glorious events and glorified events in Dutch history. Also, the obvious "villains" in Dutch history get even further demonized and villified, no nuance added and all is to show the greatness of the Dutch history. This book is not seriously considered as a valuable historic work. Valuable perhaps only as antique. Nowadays historians add much more nuance to certain figures in Dutch history and so do the British historians. These books were probably written in a time when countries needed to glorify their past in order to gain a national identity. Now that this is no longer needed, historical debate is much more open and truthful. You're from a country that is still in the middle of finding its national identity (not suggesting anything here, it just takes a few generations before that indentity is established), therefore history books will be biased. Come again in some 50 years. History books will look much different than they do now.


Would you pls shut up about "political correctness"? I'm getting sick of everything that's not suitable to one's opinion being called "political correct". That's just a lousy excuse for having a wrong and not open opinion on things and a wrong label on any differing opinion than yours.


Indifferently? What could a few hundred soldiers, only armed with a handfull of personnel carriers and a bunch of light arms do against thousands and thousands heavily armed Serbian soldiers who also had dozens of heavy tanks? If you don't know everything about Srebrenica, then you shouldn't mention it.


See, this is what you guys are all good at: taking ONE dissenting voice and name that the truth. No matter if 1000 ppl say differently, if one guy says sth else then THAT must be the truth. Not a really good practice in the science of history and I am sure you would be fried to bits by historians if you would present this guy as the messenger of truth.

So, right wing is always correct and left wing is always incorrect? I think you should start studying history; you would find it's much different.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)