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Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? What about PiS?


AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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8 Mar 2016  #1

So we all know Poland has not had the best relationship with Russia throughout history. Some notable events were the Polish-Russian war shortly after WWI, the Russian occupation and invasion of Poland in WW2, Communism in Poland, Katyn massacre, the plane crash of the Polish president, etc. I am wondering if that has at all changed or if it is gradually changing.

Have the opinions towards Russia have changed lately - especially as many Poles are becoming increasingly euro-skeptic? Do Poles now look more favorably towards Russia as many Poles are frustrated with the West, Merkel and Brussels? Do Poles look to Putin favorably - or at least view him as a good leader? Is the PiS government more pro-Russia than the last administration?

I know the older generations do not trust the Russians. I am curious if that attitude is changing or perhaps at least with some of the anti-West/euro-skeptic Poles.

I personally think the US stance towards Russia is outdated and a very cold war mentality.

delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 15,047
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8 Mar 2016  #2

I personally think the US stance towards Russia is outdated and a very cold war mentality.

So you're pro-Russia, then.
johnny reb Activity: 11 / 1,781
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8 Mar 2016  #3

The OP is the one asking the questions here delph.
Adrian ask "what do the Poles think"?
Are you pretending to be Polish again ?
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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8 Mar 2016  #4

Russia has done a lot of bad and the US is suspicious of them. However, I think that the US should at least engage in more meaningful diplomatic discussion with them concerning ISIS and the middle east. They've certainly done a better job of bombing ISIS than we have and in a shorter time too. Economic sanctions don't really hurt the leaders of these countries but rather the everyday citizens. In fact,

People don't respect the US anymore. Russia, Iran, and China are starting to realize that the US isn't all that strong anymore and they can start doing what they want.

That's besides the point though. I am interested to find out what the opinion of Russia and Putin is in Poland - especially among the youth and the euro skeptics.
Pol attorney Activity: 2 / 106
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8 Mar 2016  #5

It should be noted that Russians since xv c. have suffered from"inferiority complex" towards Poland because of Poland's long history and close relationship with the West.

The first Polish king B. Chrobry was enthroned in 1025, whereas Russian tsars were known only since XV/XV c. -- before that Russians were occupied by Mongols (hence their constant need to take over Polish throne to make them feel equal with old European dynasties).

Poland, up till now, is the only country which effectively occupied Moscow and kreml in 1608 (then Russians ousted Poles from Moscow).

But then Poland, because of its many sins, treason, pride, arrogance and ignorance, collapsed completely in 1795 (however it should be said that after reformation in Germany, all the major powers in Europe and Asia wanted to destroy and conquer catholic Poland).

Culturally, we Poles are very close to Slav Russians, so I presume that this tale about Lech, czech and Rus may be a real story.
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 15,047
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8 Mar 2016  #6

I am interested to find out what the opinion of Russia and Putin is in Poland - especially among the youth and the euro skeptics.

So - ignoring the agenda of PiS, which is pro-Russia in their methods.

Most people are cynical about Russia and don't trust Putin. There's outright hostility from those on the patriotic right through to more pragmatic opinions where people would like to get on with Russia but almost no-one would trust Russia.

However, there's a small but vocal minority of Korwin-Mikke supporters that regard Russia as being worthy of being friends with. These people are vocal, but they tend to be on the margins of society. There's constant murmurings that they're financed by Russia, especially as the resources of Korwin-Mikke's parties are suspiciously large.

There's also a group called "Zmiana" partia-zmiana.pl/ - this party is openly anti-American and pro-Russia. It's almost certainly financed by Russia, although from memory, there's also some suspicious crossover between JKM and Zmiana.

Where it gets murky and interesting was that up until the last few weeks, most of the opposition to the democratic Polish opposition came from Zmiana/Korwin-Mikke activists.
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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8 Mar 2016  #7

Well Poland has been betrayed by many countries - both Russia and the west.

I have heard of some news outlets accusing Russia of sponsoring groups in Poland and the Baltic countries. I haven't looked too much into it but it wouldn't surprise me given the situation in eastern Ukraine.

Personally, I don't think Poland should put all their faith in Germany, the EU or Russia. I don't think they should chose one side over the other though as both sides have screwed them over. Ultimately, Poland needs to continue to modernize their armed forces and think for themselves instead of going by whatever Brussels tells them to do. I think we are starting to see some changes in Poland - whether they are for the better or for the worse only time will tell.

Also, Didn't Mikke-Korwin write a pro Russian (anti-Russophobia or however it is spelled) book? I think he also stated that supposedly the snipers in Maidan were trained in Poland were CIA agents there to cause unrest or something like that.
peterweg Activity: 36 / 2,202
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8 Mar 2016  #8

Poles don't trust Russia

negative views of Russia

pewglobal.org/2015/06/10/1-nato-public-opinion-wary-of-russia-leary-of-action-on-ukraine/
mafketis Activity: 16 / 3,791
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8 Mar 2016  #9

Do Poles now look more favorably towards Russia

What has Russia ever done that Poland should trust them? Can you name just one thing? Not being on board with Merkel's mad folly or some EU policies is not nearly enough to make alignment with Russia seem like a good (or even sane) idea.
Crow Activity: 134 / 5,291
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8 Mar 2016  #10

Poles don't trust Russia

from the chart you had presented i get impression that confidence in Russia rise among Poles, not falling.

Thanks for info.
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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8 Mar 2016  #11

What has Russia ever done that Poland should trust them?

That beautiful Stalinist syringe wedding cake looking 'Pajac Kultury' building in Warsaw of course! Just kidding.. to my understanding that 'gift' from the Russians was paid for by the Poles anyway.

That was actually the very first thing I wrote - I know that Poland and Russia historically did not have a good relationship. The question is if that is at all changing now as some Poles want the country to exit the EU (oftentimes because they are critical of Merkel's policies) so I am wondering if they are perhaps looking more towards Russia as a partner instead of the Eu. I guess the general consensus is no - distrust of Germany and the EU is not warranting a better relationship with Russia and Putin.

It does look like it rose a little bit from the year before for Poland.

The one thing if you look at their methodology the sample size used is very small - just over 1,000 Polish people:

Survey Methods for Poland in 2015

Country: Poland
Year: 2015
Sample Design: Multi-stage, area probability design. Primary sampling units (PSUs) are gminas (communities) stratified by province, urbanity and gmina size. Twenty-seven large gminas are selected with certainty. Within these gminas, PSUs are blocks. The number of effective PSUs is 257. Individuals within households are selected using the next birthday method. At least three attempts are made to complete the interview with the selected respondent.

Mode: Face-to-face
Languages: Polish
Fieldwork Dates: April 7 - May 13, 2015
Sample Size: 1,028
Margin of Error: 3.5 percentage points
Representative: Adult population 18 plus
Primary Vendor: Princeton Survey Research Associates International
Weighting Variables: Gender, age, education and urbanity
Design Effects: 1.28

If you pull up Germany, Russia, etc. the sample sizes are all around 1,000 as well.
whocares  
9 Mar 2016  #12

At the moment relations wont improve and most Poles either dont trust or dislike/hate Russia.
Some of it is understandable and some is propaganda.

Ideally Poland should have a neutral policy to every neighbour and all superpowers. Some groups dont like this and want every nation to be on one side (lets say "friend" or client state) and the other side ("enemy").

I do think this neutral policy would be hard to achieve (balancing between EU, US and Russia).
Poland should be close with Visegrad group and resist EU and (possibly) US pressure to submit into the Western "democracy" (its not really a democracy, they just want to destroy borders and push globalist agenda). Hopefully Visegrad doesnt bow to outside interference (especially EU or US). Improve relations with Russia a small amount. For you Russophobes: I dont say love them, or become another slave (USSR), but get rid of sanctions to improve economy and dialogue between politicians/lobbies to prevent war between Slavs.

If PIS succumbs to outside pressure (PO certainly did) from both US and EU, then Poland might get in trouble. I would probably say f them.

If the US doesnt side fully with EU and allows Poland to continue that would be best for those who support PIS maybe.
Crow Activity: 134 / 5,291
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9 Mar 2016  #13

From the perspective of us Serbians, its important that Poles and Russians at least tolerate each others. It is minimum to satisfy our interest. Sure, good neighborly relations would be even better but, reality is reality considering that both- Poles and Russians, from time to time, rather care for interest of foreigners then for their own. It must be in connection with schemes of worldwide magnates and maniacs.
G (undercover)  
9 Mar 2016  #14

One doesn't have to be pro-Putin to be sceptical about EUnuchs/Merkel/DC clowns or the other way around just like one didn't have to be a commie to be against nazis. It's all propaganda.
mafketis Activity: 16 / 3,791
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9 Mar 2016  #15

From the perspective of us Serbians, its important that Poles and Russians at least tolerate each others

Hate to break it to you, wroneczko*, but neither Poles nor Russians are terribly concerned about what's important to you Serbians.

Sorry 'bout dat.

*Crowie baby
Crow Activity: 134 / 5,291
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9 Mar 2016  #16

On the contrary. Serbia is metha-ethnic, metha-spiritual and metha-cultural center around which, in their own orbits, rotate Poland and Russia and other Slavs, too.

Right now, wise Serbians who giving energy to positive changes of our Slavic (ie Sarmatian) civilization wants to see how are two strong conglomerates established, Intermarium around Poland and, Eurasian Union around Russia.

As always, at the end, it would be exactly as we Serbians want.

Great money lying in good Polish-Russian relations.
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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9 Mar 2016  #17

Poland should be close with Visegrad group and resist EU and (possibly) US pressure to submit into the Western "democracy" (its not really a democracy, they just want to destroy borders and push globalist agenda).

I agree with you 100% on that. The Visegrad 4 must stand firm with each other. Quite frankly, I would love to see Serbia included in this group too.

Hate to break it to you, wroneczko*, but neither Poles nor Russians are terribly concerned about what's important to you Serbians.

The Serbs have enjoyed close ties with Russia throughout history. After the fall of the USSR, the average Russian began to view the US very favorably - they wanted to live and work in the US, study in US schools, listen to US music, etc. etc. The bombing of Belgrade changed all that right away and Russians have viewed the US unfavorably since then.

Great money lying in good Polish-Russian relations.

That's what I was thinking! Why should China, Iran, Belarus, etc. be the only ones to benefit from increased trade caused by Western sanctions? I mean Russia is so hurt by sanctions and oil prices but unfortunately Poland can't really become a bigger trade partner with Russia because that could mean political backlash from the EU and losing trade with Germany and the EU. The PiS government is already in a precarious situation for their 'rule of law' violations. Merkel really has Poland by the balls.. I do know there is a good business relationship between the Poles and Russians in Kaliningrad. The politicians, not so much - they're worried about military deployments there.

I know Poland and Russia have had their share of problems. I think though with the craziness going on next door in Germany, Poland should at least consider making better relations with Russia if even only for their own financial gain through exports.
Crow Activity: 134 / 5,291
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9 Mar 2016  #18

Quite frankly, I would love to see Serbia included in this group too.

Serbia in Visegrad Group would mean dramatic changes in European and global politics. It would effectively destroy chances for military conflict between Poland and Russia. Imagine political and real life consequences of that fact. Peace. Long term expecting peace. Business opportunities. Figuratively speaking, entire Eastern Europe would become navel of the world`s business. There where Chinese, Japan, Brazilian and Indian, etc businesses hesitate to come to Europe because of western European (ie Anglo-Germano-Franco) dominance, Eastern Europe would be God given fertile ground.

When one wash all the lies spoken against Serbians in last 25 years, one found that is Serbia and Belgrade natural center of UN, on the contrary to New York that is imposed world center, while are Serbians people who stubbornly defend their own and at the same time represent truly open-minded nobility of modern world. This all coming from the fact that is Serbia center of one truly old civilization (Slavic- ie Sarmatian), greatly self-aware cultural center, free from false aggressiveness that is characteristic and true indication of young civilizations. For the Serbians, for all Slavs after all, civilizations of Anglos, Germanics, Franks are all children civilizations, young civilizations. But China, for example, have that quality that coming with eons of self-awareness.

No wonder that last words of Otto Von Bismarck, on his deathbed was: ``Serbia``. No, not only because Bismarck himself was Sorbian by his entire origin. He knew
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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9 Mar 2016  #19

I do think that Serbia would be an excellent mediator between NATO dominated Central Europe and the Russian east. This is why the whole war started in Ukraine and thousands paid the price for it. It was an important chess piece for both Nato and Russia.

I'm happy to see that at least the Slavic countries aren't being sucked into the craziness of their western neighbors.
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,529
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9 Mar 2016  #20

I do think that Serbia would be an excellent mediator

Rubbish. The International community is still waiting for Serbia to apologise for it's War Crimes,

Until that day all Serbia will be mediating is the toilet cleaning at it's City Halls. That's all they can be trusted with.

Now stop licking Serbian ass - you are making yourself look silly.
Pol attorney Activity: 2 / 106
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9 Mar 2016  #21

It would effectively destroy chances for military conflict between Poland and Russia.

why would you even think so? serbia has no impact whatsoever on Polish-russian relations -- it's just too small with small economy and small army, and I also doubt if Serbs could have any impact on putin's policies.

With or without Serbia, if Putin decides to attack Baltic states + Poland, he will do so without Serbia having any say in this.

The only question which remains unanswered is : how will Nato and US react to any Russian aggression against Baltic states and Poland...?
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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9 Mar 2016  #22

There is a lot of speculation still on what did and didn't happen, whether there was a genocide or not, whether the 8,000 Srebnica figure is accurate and so on. I personally don't know whether there were real war crimes or not and this is a topic that should be investigated further by independent committees. I did follow these events very closely as this was really the first of many large international conflicts that the US would become involved in my lifetime. I'm certain there were abuses on all sides - Serbs, Croats, KLA, etc. I do however know that the U.S. media is very biased and a lot of the claims weren't based on proven evidence. The media would report that the reason they couldn't find the thousands of bodies outside of Srebnica is because they were supposedly moved. Then they said that they were melted in an aluminum factory. There really isn't much evidence for or against a lot of the events that occurred. The media also ignored the Krajina 'massacre' committed by the US and Croatian forces. Even if say the Croats didn't kill the supposed 2,000 or so Serbs as claimed, they still drove out hundreds of thousands from their homes. Even the figure of Serbians raping women was lowered from 60,000 then down to 20,000 then finally only 119 documented cases were found. Besides, the commanders and politicians were investigated and tried already by the Hague. It's over and done with. Serbia is not like some international pariah like Cuba or North Korea. Yugoslavia was split up, each nationality got their own land whether fair or not, it's over and done with. I personally would've rather seen Yugoslavia stay as one like under Tito but that's history.

I have a favorable view of Serbia in the same way I support Czech Republic and Hungary. I feel that the Slavs must be united as they cannot only rely on the major European powers.
Dougpol1 Activity: 19 / 1,529
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9 Mar 2016  #23

Serbia is not like some international pariah

Dis-honoured on the International stage for never apologising for genocide. It's really that simple for some, including me, and I have been to Serbia (for the usual reasons - she had amazing eyelashes...) Lovely people, but nationalist. Patriotic is normal, other **** is not my cup of tea.
Crow Activity: 134 / 5,291
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9 Mar 2016  #24

serbia has no impact whatsoever on Polish-russian relations

Serbia do have tremendous impact on Polish-Russian relations. Sometimes, Serbia was prevented, temporarily but, Serbia never gave up.

Plus, must be said, Serbia is historically continual strategic partner to Poland and best Poland`s trump card. Evidences for that everywhere.

I do think that Serbia would be an excellent mediator between NATO dominated Central Europe and the Russian east.

Exactly. Right now in this moment Serbia mediate between Vatican and Russia.

If Serbia succeed in this that would be fantastic victory for improvement of Poland`s strategic situation.

Nikolic "persuading patriarch to organize pope's visit"
Source: Tanjug, Sputnik Wednesday, March 9, 2016 | 10:22
b92.net/eng/news/politics.php?yyyy=2016&mm=03&dd=09&nav_id=97307

Nikolic also wondered if Christian churches, "unlike other religions," had to be "so separated, peoples divide, .......... He spoke about the Vatican's decision not to recognize the unilaterally declared independence of Kosovo, "that is followed by many Catholic countries," and which he said his visit last year was dedicated.

The International community is still waiting for Serbia to apologise for it's War Crimes,

Nonsense and lies. i warmly suggests you this book for reading.

Dis-honoured on the International stage for never apologising for genocide.

Oh man, Serbian honor would stay more then intact.

Considering all sides within Yugoslavia that were involved in conflict only Serbian side never operated by the developed genocide program. Croats had it directed against Serbians. Bosnian Muslims extremists had it directed against Serbians. Albanians had it directed against Serbians. They all coordinated against Serbians. Plus, NATO and EU openly acted against Yugoslavia and Serbians, coordinating with anti-Yugoslavian and anti-Serbian factors.

In all that, Serbians defended themselves. They never first attacked. They didn`t start hostilities. War crimes happened on Serbians. Genocide happened on Serbians. Ethnic cleanings happened to Serbians. Informations about it by mass media was restricted by EU and NATO leading powers.

Then, in turn, some Serbians did commit war crimes. Informations about it by mass media was not restricted, were welcomed and rewarded by EU and NATO leading powers.

As a result, Serbians were demonized in mass media. Still, they recuperate. Slowly but surely. With every new day we have new evidences about bestial crimes committed on Serbians. Crimes approved by EU and NATO officials.

Spot this example. Scandal that involves France's former foreign minister Kouchner while he was head of the UN mission in Kosovo, UNMIK >

Ex-UNMIK chief Kouchner "could testify about KLA crimes"

"I cannot say that Koucher knew about (human) organ trafficking, but it's impossible he had no information about organized crime in Kosovo," former UNMIK police commander Stu Kellock has been quoted a saying.

So, when would western Europe apologize to Serbians?

Back to the topic please
OP AdrianK9 Activity: 6 / 453
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15 May 2016  #25

I personally think that Poland and Russia ought to really reconcile
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 15,047
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15 May 2016  #26

Fortunately, most Poles don't think like you.
gumishu Activity: 10 / 4,182
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15 May 2016  #27

reconcile

reconcile with an imperialistic monster that is currently working to enlarge it's circle of influence? - for what sake? and how? by submission??
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 15,047
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15 May 2016  #28

for what sake?

Adrian has previously admitted that his family was closely linked with the Communists, so it's understandable that he would like a return to those days as they were - in his words - "upper middle class" in the PRL.

Makes perfect sense that he would see Russia as being a benefactor as opposed to a thief.
gregy741 Activity: 3 / 717
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15 May 2016  #29

reconcile with an imperialistic monster that is currently working to enlarge it's circle of influence? - for what sake?

and whats unusual or wrong for leader of country wanting to make his country more influential?is that makes Russia "imperialistic monster".lol

ahh i get it..Putin would be wonderful human if he work on destroying Russia like bellowed by the west Yeltzin
delphiandomine Activity: 56 / 15,047
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15 May 2016  #30

Putin would be wonderful human if he work on destroying Russia

From the eyes of the ordinary Pole, exactly.

A Russia that walks freely into countries and takes bits that it wants is not the kind of neighbour you want to have. Mind you, as is usual for your ilk, you'd be first in line to work for Putin.




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Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? What about PiS?
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