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Casimir the Great (Kazimierz Wielki) started anti-Semitism?


dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
30 Aug 2018 #61
any more than Hitler created anti-Jewish hostility

Hitler was the most successful hostile to the jewish people in history, how can you possibly say he just fanned flames, frankly I am shocked at that statement, my father and tens of thousands others suffered huge loss trying to stop that genocidal maniac.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
30 Aug 2018 #62
Had the fertile soil for such not already been laid for centuries, Hitler wouldn't have been able to carry out his plans!
Ironside 50 | 10,907
30 Aug 2018 #63
That is BS. It is one of those empty slogans that are being spread by idiots.

the world owe you nothing, of course you won't talk about Isreal in the contex of your slogan and their policy.
dolnoslask 6 | 3,085
30 Aug 2018 #64
laid for centuries

So in your opinion have we learned the lesson of hitler and the fertile soil thing, or are we still on a path of conflict . I gotta say where I came from Jews were no big deal never gave any problems didn't ever really figure in day to day life, well apart from Maureen lipman.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
31 Aug 2018 #65
And I'm sure that you and Ironside et al never even knew the Jews existed in Poland until people such as myself brought them to your attention, is that it?

Ya know, y'all oughta write this stuff down and send it to either a TV or radio station for a comedy sketch! You'd make millions!! LOL

:-)

If you read anything about the history of European anti-Semitism, you'd have gleaned by this time that the latter was not something which suddenly sprung up when Hitler rose to power and a nation up and turned from the loveliest folks on earth into a bunch of vicious, ideololgical Jew haters over night. It was something which seethed over the centuries, kept at bay more or less through the Enlightenment influence along with the winds of democracy blowing throughout the Continent, later submerged by the half-hearted failure of the Weimar Republic, only to be crushed by the realization that true democracy was ever so scary for Germans, still reeling from the chaos of the failed Bavarian Putsch under Kurt Eisner in 1918 and shellshocked, so to speak, by the fearsome prospect of anything of that sort happening again.. While obviously not every German (for that matter every Pole etc. though in a different context admittedly) followed Nazi aims by a long shot, the overwhelming effect was of a nation under siege and unable to do what was right, owing to understandable fear, panic, but also in many cases, just plain indifference. Nothing after all is black or white.

Jews were easy targets, scapegoats practically made to order for unscrupulous types who abused peasant ignorance and fanned the flames of hatred.
NO European country was beyond this, whilst certain countries eventually did try to make life at least superficially bearable for the Jews, such as England's

Cromwell who invited the Jews to return after having been thrown out some three hundred years before. Albeit, Cromwell wasn't being entirely altruistic either or acting

under purely "Christian" duty, he was a darned sight better than many a Central European despot. a proven fact of record.
Crow 146 | 9,112
31 Aug 2018 #66
Maybe brat Casimir had his reasons. Let`s not judge him in advance.

But now we see reasons for peace with Jews. We all suffered enough from Romans. We all sometimes served to Rome. We all feel shame for it.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
31 Aug 2018 #67
Not quite sure of your point, Crow.
Maybe somebody could help "re-translate" your last sentence into English, since I can't make heads or tails of it!
Ironside 50 | 10,907
31 Aug 2018 #68
you know that your post makes no sense whatsoever, it sound like rant of a madman.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
31 Aug 2018 #69
To a non-native English speaker, I'm certain it must.

Any well-read Anglophone, conversant in history, would read it and undoubtedly draw the same conclusions as yours truly, although possibly not for the same reasons:-)
Ironside 50 | 10,907
31 Aug 2018 #70
To a non-native English speaker, I'm certain it

Well lyzko, you sound like a pleb. with your constant hraping about it.

conversant in history,

you jest, you have no clue about history, you spew some prejudiced set of stories and myths that has nothing to do with history or the truth.
Crow 146 | 9,112
31 Aug 2018 #71
@Lyzko

What you don`t understand Lyz?

Did Jews took part in era of slavery and used to sell Slavs (ie Sarmats) as slaves? Yes, they did and that way sided with Rome against Sarmats (ie Poles).

Could Jews be found among extreme Christian fanatics of any Christian provenience? Yes, they could be found.

But, also, fact is that we Slavs (ie Sarmats) distinguished ourselves in serving to the Rome, even against our own civilization, against Jews too, to united Rome, to western Rome, to eastern Rome.

Etc etc examples of mutual historical idiotism.

So, aren`t we all sinners? Yes we are.

Time is that we all stop to eat sh** and kiss each others. Kiss, kiss
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,692
1 Sep 2018 #72
To even question if kazimierz wielki was an anti Semite is laughable. First off, the Jews had wandered through dozens of countries, principalities, etc all through the middle ages and into renaissance. At the time the Jews had been kicked out of different European countries and many of them moved to Poland. The simple reason why is because kazimierz upheld equal rights with Christians and issued a law again forcing Jews to baptize and racial type attacks. And actually most of the Jews that came during that time were from germany

Here is a famous painting by one of polands by matejko that translates to roughly reception of the Jews

malarstwo-historia.blogspot.com/2011/02/jan-matejko-przyjecie-zydow-rp-1096.html?m=1

Mostly his favorite girl out of a stable of 7 had to do a lot with casimirs treatment of Jews
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esterka
Ironside 50 | 10,907
1 Sep 2018 #73
To even question if kazimierz wielki was an anti Semite is laughable.

The term wasn't even around back then. It's has the late XIX century origin during the times were racial prejudices and eugenics seemed to be a scientific and progressive found. Nothing to do with the RCC.

Here is a famous painting by one of Poland by matejko that translates to roughly reception of the Jews

Actually Jews in large number came to Poland during reign of Kazimierz IV not Kazimierz III the Great.
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Sep 2018 #74
The term wasn't even around back then

Nor was the 'term' Diptheria. That doesn't mean it didn't exist.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
1 Sep 2018 #75
Ironside,

Only someone in constant denial would denigrate the truth so relentlessly!
If you understood my message(s), then I obviously wouldn't need to harp on the matter of English now, would I.
:-)
Ironside 50 | 10,907
1 Sep 2018 #76
or was the 'term' Diptheria. That doesn't mean it didn't exist.

Yet using it in that context is an exercise in pointless posturing, finger pointing or virtue singling. Generally speaking, using modern terms and context to paint (or judge) a picture of people or issues that belongs firmly 600 years in the past is a fool's folly.

Only someone in constant denial would denigrate the truth so relentlessly!

Indeed, someone like you. As you have proven time and time again. Making general statements of the kind no a reasonable person with any historical knowledge would dare to make. I stress the key word here - knowledge.

You surly are entitled to your OPINIONS. Although once you start to claim any kind of universal accepted truth or a common knowledge - I must stop you. What are you talking about is your opinion. At best is only a historical narrative accepted by the Jews or by a large percentage of Jews. It doesn't make it universal, it doesn't make it true and it doesn't make scientific.

I'm not in denial because I have never accepted your stories or your set of myths that passes for you as historical for anything other than grandma stories . For me historical is more than stories from the past.

There are universal scientifically tuned tools to be used in a historical research that are generally recognized by the universities (or used to be). Hence anyone with an education that is worth its salt can easily recognize a historical work from anything else. For example Gross and his books are in fact are only testimony to his opinion steeped in a moral judgment. From a scientific point of view his books are worthless.

I guess that is what a large chunk of American Jews want to read - a simplified glorification of their kin or sometimes ancestors and an easy scapegoat to hate. If anyone is in denial is them/you.

Otherwise American Jews would have to answer difficult questions. For exmaple why they have done absolutely nothing to help their brothers in Europe in the times of need? They haven't even lifted a finger.

Funny thing some of Israel young Jews think about Easter Europe like as it used to be a place of dimwitted peasants. Funny they never give a thought to a fact that 80% of the Jews in this area were living in villages and albeit a small percentage of them took to farming, they were as dimwitted and poor, sometimes poorer than their peasant neighbors, so much so their lack of personal hygiene was noticed.

As was their unwillingness to take to farming - why the Jews are not into farming? The land can't be cheated - as the answer goes.
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Sep 2018 #77
an exercise in pointless posturing, finger pointing or virtue singling

It's much more real than that, as well you know. And deadly too.
Miloslaw 9 | 2,825
1 Sep 2018 #78
Lyzko does have a point.
Anti semitism was rife in Europe before Hitler came to power.He just harnessed and heightened that hatred.
Not disimilar to how extremist groups are using the popular rise against Islam right now.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
1 Sep 2018 #79
Thank you for someone finally injecting a bit of common sense into the discussion, Miloslaw! Hope you will finally learn something from all this, Ironside; what we don't want to hear, we dub myths, what we WANT to hear, we call truth.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
1 Sep 2018 #80
nti semitism was rife in Europe before Hitler came to power

Sure, so lets go back to the year of our Lord 1350 and call long gone great ruler of the kingdom of Poland an anti-Semite - regardless if that makes any sense or not. Why the hell not? After all a common sense, some knowledge and a basic decency is long gone.

Anyhow even IF there was anti-Semitism (which is an ill defined term and can mean anything) in Europe before Hitler it doesn't mean that A lead to B. Definitely it doesn't need to add The RCC to the mix as Lzyko does. That mixture is just pure malarkey.

That one.

AS for two:

Those responsible are Germans ruled by Hilter and his party. Nobody else. Smearing people who had nothing to do with Hiltler, Germany and killing people (in this context Jews) just becouse they were not found of the Jewish people in their respective countries it called abuse and the lowest form of slander.

Three; Asking grandchildren of those people who had nothing do do with German Death Camps, and whose family members died in one of those camps, to admits some kind of intergenerational burned of inherited guilt - is not only insulting is a pure insolence.

Hey let ask the Jews to atone for all ill one or other of their kind done and for the usury on the top of it! What good for a goose ....

If we gonna divide people into groups and then stick labels on them then there shouldn't be sacred cows.
Progressivisms and ideology of so called group identity is just something some Jews latched onto to blame everyone around and demand apology and money. Hence blacks and Jews in USA hate each other guts cause both groups cast themselves in a role of enteral victims of evil white men/anti-Semites.

Anyway its all BS. I have already asked LZyko if the Jews were so hard done by in Europe - why they haven't moved to the middle east, China or whatnot?

what we WANT to hear, we call truth.

So do I. LET talk about the truth not some progressive BS and innuendos.
Miloslaw 9 | 2,825
1 Sep 2018 #81
Way OTT response!

All I was saying was that Lyzko had a point.....especially in Germany,not so much in Poland.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
1 Sep 2018 #82
give him a finger and he'll just take all the rest.
Context is the key word here.
Crow 146 | 9,112
1 Sep 2018 #83
I understand dobrog brata Kazimierza. He was under the pressure. Fine, well placed pressure.
Ironside 50 | 10,907
1 Sep 2018 #84
Geez stop posting such crap all we need here is comic relief from Serbia.
Crow 146 | 9,112
1 Sep 2018 #85
Tell me Irone, did I ever accused you of posting craps on this most noble forum? Did I? Of course I didn`t. I am tolerant.

Plus, you have nothing to tell as proper reply on sophisticated situation of brat Kazimierz? See, there was a reason why brat Kazimierz was named Kazimierz Wielki.
Lyzko 29 | 7,239
2 Sep 2018 #86
As I've said for the umpteenth time, Hitler couldn't have gotten to first base in his rantings were the not already a fertile soil ready to accept his lunacy!

When idiots like Dr. Frits Claussen in Denmark started in the early forties with similar craziness on the radio, he was laughed off the air practically and de-

rided royally as "Un-Danish in character and spirit".
Ironside 50 | 10,907
2 Sep 2018 #87
As I've said for the umpteenth time,

yes we know, you're obsessed. it an unhealthy obsession. Do you have anything else to contribute expect for your Jewish traumas and obsessions? need I remind you that Hitler has been dead for seven decades. 73 years and counting.

If you are so obsessed about it go to some German forums. I couldn't care less why German did what they did. One of the nice songs from the 16th century talks about 'German rats and Austrian snakes' go figure.

Un-Danish in characte

Right Danes were so great eh? How many Jews were living there 12 or there about? Magnificent are the not?
Go to German or Danish forum and enjoy.
Crow 146 | 9,112
2 Sep 2018 #88
As I've said for the umpteenth time, Hitler couldn't have gotten to first base in his rantings were the not already a fertile soil ready to accept his lunacy!

But Jews profited when Rome opened hunt season on Sarmatians (ie Slavs). Plus, extermination of rodoverie believers and forcible conversion into Christianity. And what was that extermination of back then Sarmats and their assimilation, if not fascism in its pure form. If we follow traces of fascism in Europe we coming to Romans. What is fascinating in that is that early Romans were Blacks. And again, we have one more analogy with modern time. We again see how western Europeans, by same Roman pattern of behavior, tend to merge with semites and harm Slavs (ie Sarmats).
Miloslaw 9 | 2,825
2 Sep 2018 #89
There are lunatics on this forum......
Europe was pretty anti semitic before Hitler.
Poland was one of the few countries that historically welcomed Jews along with Great Britain.
But,as is happening now with many Muslims in Europe,the majority of Jews in central europe were not properly integrated,which caused problems later....I am not pointing the finger of blame at anyone,but Hitler,as many European and American politicians are doing today,could see that the politicians were ignoring the people and took and are currently taking advantage of the situation for their own political gain.

If you cannpt see that then you are truly blind.....
Crow 146 | 9,112
2 Sep 2018 #90
But Jews now chooses well. You go with Slavs (ie Sarmats). Jews knows where is victory.

History will make full circle and things will return to normality.


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