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Slavs are descendants of Sarmatians?


classic34    
27 Mar 2018  #241
fair enough Lyzko.

generally,

- the exact homeland of slavs is still debated i.e southeast Poland and Ukraine OR further west to the Oder

- also, the ethnolinguistic entity of Sarmatians is debated i.e Wholly Iranian OR sedentary agricultural population subsumed under the name of a nomadic group that had come to rule over them.

- Biskupin; was it indeed proto-Slav? Maybe, maybe not.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
28 Mar 2018  #242
Unfortunately, I have not been able to see a single one of those records. It seems the mods on this forum are directly engaged in the plot of hiding important documents stating the truth about the Serbs or the Slavs in general ...
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
28 Mar 2018  #243
The ancestors of present-day Russians and those of the Swedes are related.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
29 Mar 2018  #244
Yes, the Vikings, but are you sure they came to Ruthenia (Ruś) precisely from Sweden?
classic34    
29 Mar 2018  #245
to lyzko,

that view raises a few questions and it sounds like you support the Normanist view of Russian early history. I acknowledge the origins of the Rurik Dynasty as Swedish.

The Vikings invaded France and England but you could not really say they are related to Scandinavians.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
29 Mar 2018  #246
Of course! Was William The Conqueror "French"?? Look at the history.
classic34    
29 Mar 2018  #247
So French are a mixture of peoples, even before Norman invasions of the early Middle Ages.

All European peoples/nations are a mixture.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
30 Mar 2018  #248
All Europeans are rather predominantly Slavic (ie Sarmatian/ie Thracian/ie Celtic) in genetics but cultural mixtures of Slavic and non-European influences. That is untold truth about Europe.
classic34    
30 Mar 2018  #249
TO say that ancestors of Swedes and Russians are related is well beyond even Normanist views. It is bogus and pseudo-scientific.

It goes beyond ascertainable facts.

There was a Viking incursion in Russia's medieval history and Kievan Rus was founded to a degree by Varangians.

I have never found any history that states Swedes being ancestors of Russians. Even Vernadsky was not that bogus.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
30 Mar 2018  #250
The NORMAN Conquest, read "NOR[TH]MAN Conquest....William The Conqueror might as well have been called "Vilhelm Eroberen", because of course wasn't French at all, not even "Frankish", but Scandinavian by extraction, if not birth:-)
classic34    
1 Apr 2018  #251
point taken there lyzko
classic34    
3 Apr 2018  #252
Crow,

You might find this interesting if you have not already read it;

ANTHROPOLOGY / GENETICS & HISTORY
Wojciech J. Cynarski1(ABCDEFG), Agnieszka Maciejewska2(DEF)

The proto-Slavic warrior in Europe: The Scythians,
Sarmatians and Lekhs
Submission: 9.10.2015; acceptance: 16.02.2016.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
3 Apr 2018  #253
ANTHROPOLOGY / GENETICS & HISTORY

This article is not very convincing and is based on myths rather than facts. It has the appearance of a scientific paper, but it is not in my view ...

Some more light on the genetics of ancient populations inhabiting the territory of today's Poland's are to be shed this year by Marek Figlerowicz of the University of Poznań and his team conducting a truly scientific and large-scale project in archeo-genetics. Hopefully, the results of the project will put an end to all those fantasy speculations about ancient Slavs and their legendary Sarmatian ancestors. Or will it give rise to even more speculations perhaps?

A similar scientific project is presently carried out in the Czech Republic and its results are planned to be published this year, too.
classi34    
3 Apr 2018  #254
ziemowit,

I was not talking to you!!!!!! This might interest Crow.

I do not wish to talk to you so BUT OUT.

Everyone (knuckleheads who even care about this tiresome boring and irrelevant subject) knows there are TWO CONFLICTING VIEWS ON THIS SUBJECT

MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS. NO-ONE WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU.

YOU ARE THE SAME IRONSIDE. YOU CAN'T FOOL ME.

POLISH WORKING CLASS JERK

I HAVE LEARNT SEVERAL THINGS FROM THIS BLOG;

ULTIMATLEY,

A - EARLY SLAVIC ORIGINS IS TOTALLY IRRELEVANT AND A WASTE OF TIME

B - THERE ARE SO MANY POLISH AND SLAV NATIONALISTS WASTING THERE TIME WITH THIS INTEREST

C - I HAVE WASTED MUCH TIMES MYSELF ON A TOTALLY IRRELEVANT STUPID INTEREST WHICH PEOPLE LIKE ZIEMOWIT LOVES.

SO ZIEMOWIT, `POLISH INTELLECTUAL TRY HARD,'

wE ARE NOT WAITING FOR THAT STINKING PAPER FROM CZECK `SCIENTIFIC' PROJECT EITHER.

NO ONE GIVES A **** ABOUT IT. ITS ALL TOTALLY IRRELEVANT ANYWAY.

YOUR VIEW ON RUTHENIANS BEING DESCENDED FROM SWEDES STINKS LIKE ****

AND IS PATHETICALLY WRONG.

YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
3 Apr 2018  #255
Look who's talking:-)
LOL
Ziemowit 12 | 3,023    
3 Apr 2018  #256
Yes, Łyżko, I wonder whom he might be. He looks really AGITATED and being on the verge of COLLAPSE.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
4 Apr 2018  #257
Title of thread should be - Slavs are Sarmatians. We are descendants to our ancestors. That, yes. But, we are that same people and culture in continuity. Even our Sarmatian name survived in some regions.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,523    
4 Apr 2018  #258
Wasn't it the Polish nobility who felt sarmat connections the most?
Which slavic people stll feel connection with sarmats? Serbs? How? Why? Think of St. George and tread carefully not to open your mouth too much ;)
Crow 143 | 7,293    
4 Apr 2018  #259
Yes, St. George is good example. You should tell it yourself. It show how Romans when adopted Christianity symbolically depicted subjugation of Sarmatians (ie Slavs). We all know what was/is Sarmatian symbolism.

As for connections with Sarmats, Jew Netanyahu referred to it these days, speaking to Serbian president Vucic. It was first time in modern Slavic history that one worlds politician speak openly of Slavs/Serbs (ie Sarmats) as of ancient people and more to it, of Slavs as of natives of Europe (and not only of Europe). It is also first time in modern Slavic history that Slavic politician received such an open respect and well deserved honor, what western European scholars tried to steal from us, falsifying our history. Jews here offered their hand to Slavs and I deeply respect that much. You sow this ? >

PM Netanyahu meets with Serbian PM Vučić in Jerusalem
mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2014/Pages/PM-Netanyahu-meets-with-Serbian-PM-Vucic-1-December-2014.aspx

The friendship between the Jewish and Serbian peoples goes back to thousands of years, to the time of the Roman Republic [500 BC].

youtube.com/watch?v=PhxmLuXYNG4

We had and still have open discussion on TV to which particular episode from our mutual past Natanyahu refereed. Let me share most interesting opinion heard these days. Our historian Milan Vidojevic says that Netanyahu (advised by his highest rabies during preparation to welcome Serbian president) refers to episode of Arian (Sarmatian/Serbian) Veniamin tribe connections to Jews. Some Jewish noblemans married Sarmatian princess, while other regional Semites refused to intermarry with Sarmats (that back then lived also in Anatolia; as it is confirmed for Celts- ie Sarmats) because Sarmats (Araians/Whites) were not Semites. Sarmatian noble woman of great Veniamin tribe (bdw, Jewish name Benjamin have Sarmatian origin, where V > B), were often prepared to marry Jewish Kings, from Juda clan. Lineage goes back to the family of Jesus Christ Himself. See, Mirjam was/is noble title. That`s how come name Marija for Mother of God. Its the Biblical thing. In older examples, Samson himself was result of Sarmatian-Jewish intermarriage. Veniamin tribe had symbol of wolf and Jewish written records goes back to Saka Sarmats who fought against Arabs for hundreds years and were defeated by Mongols. Jews have records of Scythian connections to Babilonians. It is all so most interesting.
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
4 Apr 2018  #260
St. George. Wasn't he the bloke who slew the dragon?
Crow 143 | 7,293    
5 Apr 2018  #261
St. George was by Christianity took as symbol of dominance of Rome over populus (serfs, servants, sclavs, Sarmats/Serbians- ie Slavs). When I say Rome, I mean both Western and Eastern. In medieval Serbian chronicles, our old records speak of both of them only as of `Romeji`.

Use old Roman maps and spot how everywhere in Europe, Romans border with Sarmatians (Slavs) and we also have plenty of records that Sarmatians lived within Roman borders, what is logical- where Romans established and sow borders, it was by native European Sarmatians seen as challenge, reduction of their freedom and disruption of natural order of things that existed from time immemorial.

Some interesting insight into Serbian heraldic symbols to give you idea what we Serbians, last bearers of venerable Sarmatian name, gave to Europe. One of most important things that Serbians initiated and formed was Order of the Dragon that united Slavic and European nobility against common threat.

l

Lazarevic Coat of Arms, that inherit from Hrebeljanovic dynasty that gave King Lazar who led Serbians in fateful battle on Kosovo Serbians vs. Turks

Let me just remind here that Stefan Lazarevic, son of King Lazar transferred leading role in Order of the Dragon (that was formed by Serbian Voivode Milos Obilic) on Hungarian Sigismund when alliance against Turks was forged. Later, Polish King Jan Sobieski himslef became Grand Master and protector of order.

d

o

Order of the Dragon patch
Lyzko 17 | 4,920    
6 Apr 2018  #262
I was right then about St. George and the dragon. Goodie!
Crow 143 | 7,293    
6 Apr 2018  #263
See, important thing is to follow logic.

Essentially, St. George, as Roman introduced saint depicted subjugation of Sarmatians. In that symbolism dragon is subjugated and defeated by bearer of the cross. Spot >

sg

Now, spot the Lazarevic`s Coat of Arms. When Sarmatians (Serbian/Slavs) themselves used dragon in symbolism, dragon is presented with cross on its back. In fact, dragon, under the cross. Dragon that serve to cross. It was compromise. Spot again >

s

And you would expect that Pope of that time opposed to use dragon in symbolism. But no, Pope and Patriarch of Constantinople accepted it and himself gave Latin version of name of the order- Ordo Draconis. In Serbian it was `Red Zmaja`. In English `order of the Dragon.` Pope and Patriarch of Constantinople (Romans) accepted dragon in symbolism when they needed alliance with Sarmatians.
dolnoslask 5 | 1,981    
6 Apr 2018  #264
See that's all new and interesting to me, never knew about this connection to st george.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
6 Apr 2018  #265
Romans were practical. When they were week and were unable to control, they tolerated symbol of dragon in Sarmatian (ie Slavic) symbolism. But, when Romans were strong and Sarmatians week, Romans underlined their dominance and wanted absolute control over Sarmatians (ie Slavs). Absolute subjugation and humiliation.

s

d

Dragon of Roman Sarmatian auxiliary cavalry in time BC
bobek    
10 Apr 2018  #266
I've noticed that most people on this site back the `Lusatian' hypothesis to origin of Slavs.

There is the Trziniec, Chernoleska, Zarubinets and Milograd hypothesis of course.

Most Historians tend to agree that Slavs originated near the Carpathian mountains and present day Ukraine.
Mr Grunwald 19 | 1,523    
10 Apr 2018  #267
Crow you don't seem to get it do you? Ever heard of the Legend about Smok Wawelski? About that Shoemaker? Not some almighty St. george? If Religion is so damn annoying to you

In Christian symbolism it was about St. George slaying his inner dragon (Inner demon so to speak) and being able to sacrifice himself for Christ (cause he died for his faith). Do you think Poles died for their faith or not? Throughout centuries? No matter how big or small an enemy was. It's a never ending story. Which I guess for you as a Serbian can relate to
bobek    
12 Apr 2018  #268
I agree that probably all writers who back the autochthonous theory of Slavs origin Poland is because those writers are Polish themselves.

Its al political agenda and Romanticism. Not at all based on facts.
Crow 143 | 7,293    
12 Apr 2018  #269
In Christian symbolism it was about St. George slaying his inner dragon (Inner demon so to speak) and being able to sacrifice himself for Christ

Are you aware that some people earned their living by sitting and contemplating how to give Christian meaning to everything pre-Christian? Are you aware of that fact?
classic34    
27 Apr 2018  #270
Ziemowit does not provide any information or read anything. I can tell that when he makes comments like `how do you know all this, like you went back in time and got the info from them (Sarmatians)?'

Ziemowit, have you ever heard of reading? You open what is called a journal or book and reading page after page.

Instead, Ziemowit `Mr autochthonous' sits by the computer and waits to criticize anyone whose info is contrary to his autochthonous opinion.

Lusatian civilization was not proto-slav. Just because it happened to be in the area of Poland.



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