Seeking Czarniecki family members and ancestors from Lublin, also Margiewicz, Danilowicz and Andrulewicz

Does anyone know of the Czarniecki family from Lublin. Please post.

I found out online that this person: Danuta, her email: d.kamieniarz@pzlow.pl is also looking for Czarniecki family (Stefan Czarniecki, other related family: Jagodzinski - Dubienka). I'm not sure if she speaks English though...

Hello Maciek: Thanks for info. I have another Polish friend, maybe she can help me talk to Danuta.

Merged: Czarniecki from Suwalki, Lipsko

I'm looking for any information that anyone might have on:

- Alexjondra Aliza Andrulewicza Czarniecka; who later changed her name to Alexandria (also "Alexandra" and "Alexanderia") Alice Andrulewicz (also "Andrulevich") Czarn(i)ecki, and was the daughter of Antoni "Anthony" Andrulewicz of Katarzyna "Katherine" Margiewicza Czarniecki. Born on June 26, 1882; she immigrated from Suwałki to Ellis Island, settling in Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania. She died on April 6, 1936 and was buried on April 8, 1936.

- Julian Jan "Felix" Czarniecki (December 24, 1876 - September 11, 1922), my great-great-granddad Czarnecki. Great-Great-Granddad was the son of Antoni and Katarzyna Danilowicza Czarniecka, and the Czarniecki Family Farm was in Lisko Orliscko, Poland, Russia (now Lipsko, Poland). He claims to have been born in Suwałki; but I believe that he was either born in Lisko and was talking chai kock when he claimed "Suwałki" on his naturalization petition, or that he was born there because his mom had been born or was perhaps visiting relatives (perhaps Andrulewiczes or Margiewiczes) there.

- Antoni "Anthony J. Czarnecki, Sr." Czarniecki (October 24, 1904 - December 2, 1964) was my dad's paternal granddad and the only Czarniecki child born on the family farm. Once his parents converted themselves and him to Roman Catholicism to avoid the pogroms in Poland and Russia, and stayed Catholic to avoid persecution in America; his parents were basically done with the family back in Lisko and Suwałki, and he saw only pictures of them and whatever else a family friend named Bertha Wawrzyn would bring back when she went to visit family and friends.

- Any of the other relatives that I have mentioned; and in case you need any more proof that they were Jewish, e-mail me: I have plenty more documents to show that they were Jewish, and that the pogroms did not provide a reasonable excuse to even pretend to convert in the eyes of Great-Granddad Czarnecki's grandparents.

• 
  Great-Great-Granddad Julian Jan "Julian John" Felix Czarniecki
  

Looking To Connect With Some Relatives Back in Suwałki and Lipsko

I'm looking particularly to connect with anyone related to the following people:

- Katarzyna Margiewicza Andrulewicza, who married Antoni Andrulewicz. Katarzyna "Katherine" and Antoni "Anthony" Andrulewicz were born in Polish Russia prior to 1882.

- Alexjondra Aliza Andrulewicza Czarniecka (June 26, 1882 - April 6, 1936) , the daughter of the couple aformentioned. She was born in Suwałki, Polish Russia; and died in Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania.

- Katarzyna Danilowicza Czarniecka, who married Antoni Czarniecki of Lisko Orliscko (Lipsko), Polish Russia. She was, as far as I understand, born in Suwałki.

- Julian Jan "Julian John" Czarniecki (December 24, 1876 - September 11, 1922), the son of Antoni and Katarzyna Danilowicza Czarniecki, and son-in-law of Antoni and Katarzyna Margiewicza Andrulewicz. He claimed that he was born in Suwałki, but the Czarniecki Family Farm (and I don't know if it still is) in Lipsko.

- Antoni "Anthony J. Czarnecki, Sr." Czarniecki (October 24, 1904 - December 2, 1964). He was born in Lipsko, immigrated with his mom to and joined his dad in the United States in 1908, and settled in Luzerne County in Pennsylvania. He had eight siblings: Regina (1909 - June 23, 1925), Alexandria Alice Czarnecki Dombroski (September 28, 1910 - November 1978), Stanislaw "Stanley" P. Czarnecki (November 11, 1911 - July 29, 1995), Jan "John" Felix Czarnecki (August 31, 1913 - May 15, 1995), Edward "Ed" L. Czarnecki (April 2, 1915 - May 1991), Joseph "Suzy" P. Czarnecki (March 15, 1917 - September 17, 1978), Bernard "Bernie" S. Czarnecki (May 15, 1920 - 1970s), and Cecelia "Celia" R. Czarnecki Guhanick (January 5, 1922 - April 6, 1994).

hiyah,

i am writing from warsaw. i saw your youtube video last night. gombrowicz wrote a play, "the memoirs of stefan czarniecki" which is not meant to be taken literally as history. he wrote in "a grotesque vein," he used aspects of history to make a commentary on modern politics.

..."Gombrowicz's oeuvre is routinely described by referring it to the grotesque. ... The motive of this artistic device must be sought in the author's entanglement in the horrors of twentieth-century history and his artistic preoccupation with avant-garde literature. ...The task of modern literature lies in undermining the cultural foundations of these apparently self-evident forms. This project has an essential bearing on the organization of meaning in Gombrowicz's texts. The story is broken up and put together according to certain (quasi) logical chains that show the underlying mutability of life..."

whether stefan czarniecki had a jewish wife i have been unable to find, cannot find anything about any wife at all! that is strange....

anyways, enough of that... :-) my family is of czarniecki and some of them came from lipa in galicia... you mentioned lipsko in galicia, i suppose they are not the same place, are they? just maybe your antoni czarniecki was a brother to my emilia czarniecka?? i would love to hear more if you have some documents connecting them.

but even if not exactly related then, still we would be probably related from an earlier generation. after all, there are not an infinite amount of czarnca ancestors! :-)

my family is rumored to be part jewish, though most of them go purple in the face at the mention of it, but after searching around i have found it to be true. my family also emigrated to pennsylvania. oh so many similarities.

by the way, the pronunciation is char.NYET.ski

did you know about adam mickiewicz having a jewish mother? Poles do not like to hear that... :-)

and his most important work, Dziady / Forefathers, is not only a story, but is a cabbalistic text too.

and most all of the people of poland who have the last name of majewski, they were converts to catholicism. more things that the poles do not like to hear.

if you have any info on czarniecki, please let me know. and i am not sure if i will be able to post on this site, so here is my address, just in case you can see it: gmail dot com.

--tera

What's wrong in Mickiewicz having a Jewish mother? Which Polish people do not like to hear it? Being Polish, I can see nothing strange in it, and I'm also pleased to hear about it; although no more or less pleased than if he had a Polish, North American or Zimbabwean mother.

Allegedly, when one scholar tried to write indepth about this she was blocked by a certain sector of the Polish academia. I have references somewhere, I'll see if I can dig them out.

Hi,

I am looking for information about Julian Czarniecki, a composer who was born in Turka Nad Stryjem. He was my grandmother's father (Aniela Czarniecka). I don't know when he was born but he died during WWII...If you have any information, please write to: artveritas@hotmail

Beata

And this 'certain sector' is of course 'the Poles', hm?
I've never heard of anyone 'not liking to hear' about Mickiewicz's Jewish mother (who wasn't really Jewish BTW, although she might have had some Jewish ancestry)


Oh, these dastardly Poles...

,,,Pushkin's mom was of African descent, but I don't hear Russians complaining!!

No, it was a certain sector within the Polish academia.

It's somewhere in the intro to this book: Studies in Language, Literature and Cultural Mythology in Poland: Investigating "The Other"

I would like to make some comments about all of this “cultural exchange” which I encountered while looking for information about my great grandfather Julian Czarniecki.

My ancestor, Stefan Czarniecki from whom my grandfather Julian Czarniecki is believed to originate, represented “typical” Polish attitudes: faith, patriotism and courage to face the oppressor and to fight for freedom of his homeland: “Rzeczpospolita”. This is how Polish people are as cultural group: courageous, heroic fighters against Turks, Nazis, Communists and other oppressors and regimes. Poles as a group do not forget to honour God; this is why they begin their lives in a new place with building a church not a bank…

Anyways, all of those great Polish people such as Stefan Czarniecki, Adam Mickiewicz, Juliusz Slowacki,… John Paul II had guts to fight with extraordinary military strategies, words, prayers and LOVE. They fought for freedom from oppression, for freedom of human dignity, for freedom from regimes including regime of moral relativism in which everything goes…It does not really matter if they had some Jewish roots or not, if they had some blood of “the other” or not; what matters is what they have done; and how they contributed to the COMMON GOOD OF THE COUNTRY in which they lived and COMMON GOOD OF THE WORLD to which they emigrated!

Let us not forget that at the end of our earthly journey, God will judge us not by our cultural background or the amount of arguments that we have won; but by the amount of goodness and love that we have spread throughout the world on which we lived. It will be only between us and Him not between us and “the other”. After all the Ten Commandment is universal law of love which should be a common ground for Jews and Poles and “the others”. If you are an atheist and relativist on either side, you are neither a true Jew nor a true Pole…

beata g
Great. Whom are you telling this anyway?
Nobody in this thread has any problems with Jews, the issue here is not who had what ancestry but rather the hurtful implication that 'the Poles' hate everyone who has any Jewish ancestry.

Yes, I understand your point. I just wanted to make another point; I don’t understand why someone would argue that all those Polish Icons such as Stefan Czarniecki or Adam Mickiewicz have Jewish blood in them; what is the point here? Did someone here ever read "Ksiegi Narodu i Pielgrzymstwa Polskiego" Adama Mickiewicza (it is possible to translate into English on internet)...

It is because Jews were omnipresent in Poland and in Polish culture

Back to Adam Mickiewicz, I strongly doubt that if he had Jewish ancestors, the fact could have been effectively hidden from the public. He is simply too great an icon in Poland, so too many scholars would have been interested to uncover the truth. Hiding such a fact would have only been possible when all Polish scholars were anti-semitic, this in turn being possible only if all Polish people were antisemitic, too, As such a thesis seems extremely absurd, perhaps even in the eyes of the most anti-Polish visitors to the PF forums, a possible explanation is that it is a kind of a myth cherished by some. And indeed, the title of the reference given by the other poster may explain it all:


"Cultural Mythology" is a crucial expression here. So, if "allegedly, when one scholar tried to write indepth about this, she was blocked by a certain sector of the Polish academia" just because the scholar may have been obsessed with an idea that could be easily dismissed on scientific grounds.

Ziemowit,

Well said!

castellenator

Long overdue reply, but Lipsko is Lipsk nad Biebrzą; and we're not related to that repugnant Anti Semite Stefan Czarniecki (or at least I hope not). But if Stefan Czarniecki was a Self-Hating Jew, yemach shemo!

Corrections to the previous list (as a Jew who was pretty left on my own with an exception of the help of a few relatives to help me figure out my heritage, I've learned some things since 2009):

Alexjondra Aliza Andrulewicza Czarniecka; who later changed her name to Alexandria (also "Alexandra" and "Alexanderia") Alice Andrulewicz (also "Andrulevich") Czarn(i)ecki, and was the daughter of Antoni "Anthony" Andrulewicz of Katarzyna "Katherine" MorgiewiczaAndrulewicza. Born on June 26, 1882; she immigrated from Suwałki to Ellis Island, settling in Sugar Notch, Pennsylvania. She died on April 6, 1936 and was buried on April 8, 1936.

Julian Jan "Felix" Chernetski(December 24, 1876 - September 11, 1922), my great-great-granddad Czarnecki. Great-Great-Granddad was the son of Antoni and Katarzyna Daniłlowicza Chernetski, and the Chernetski Family Farm was in Lisko Orliscko, Poland, Russia (now Lipsk nad Biebrzą, Poland). He claims to have been born in Suwałki; but he was born in Lipsk nad Biebrzą-- to be fair, in Suwałki gubernia, but still not in Suwałki City or (as far as I know) a listed shtetl. His parents left shtetl life by then.

Antoni "Anthony J. Czarnecki, Sr." Czarniecki (October 24, 1904 - December 2, 1964) was my dad's paternal granddad and the only Chernetski who lived on the family farm-- he was born in Cumań, Wolyń; now Tsuman, Volyns'ka Ukraine when his mother had visited Andrulewicz relatives around the Hilleli Rosh Chodesh Cheshvan in 1904. Once his parents converted themselves and him to Roman Catholicism to avoid the pogroms in Poland and Russia, and stayed Catholic to avoid persecution in America; his parents were basically done with the family back in Lisko and Suwałki, and he saw only pictures of them and whatever else a family friend named Bertha Wawrzyn would bring back when she went to visit family and friends.

Any of the other relatives that I have mentioned; and in case you need any more proof that they were Jewish, e-mail me: I have plenty more documents to show that they were Jewish, and that the pogroms did not provide a reasonable excuse to even pretend to convert in the eyes of Great-Granddad Czarnecki's grandparents.

Nickidewbear
The patronymic -wicz ending was typical of the NE reaches of the old Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth where Polish, Ruthenian and Lithuanian influences intermingled. Its Russian equivalent was –вич. Jews also accepted that linguistic solution, eschewing the Hebrew ben (son) and giving us things like Manischewitz (a well-known wine brand). After the Russian partition of Poland-Lithuania (late 1700s), most of those lands coincided with the Russian Pale of Settlement, the area in which Jews under tsarist rule were forced to live. With that in mind:

MARGIEWICZ: patronymic tag possibly derived from Hebrew name Margolis (pearl).

DANI£OWICZ: patronymic = Danielson or Danson

ANDRULEWICZ: patronymic probably from the Lithuanian name Andrulis.

CZARNIECKI: toponymic nick from numerous localities called Czarna or Czarne (Blackville, Blackton, Blackly, etc.)

Jewish tenants of Polish magnates or significant nobles often accepted the surnames of the latter - I have personally know a person of Jewish descent named Potocki (Potoccy were among the most powerful magnates in the 18th century Poland) - this can be the story behind the surname Czarniecki and perhaps some other surnames from the list

btw if you want to get in touch with your possible relatives in Poland why not trying to ask Jewish organisations in Poland

The organizations did help me realize that Great-Great-Grandma most likely concocted "Antoni" and "Katarzyna" for generic-name coverups once she and Great-Great-Granddad converted-- unless they assimilated, which they probably did. As I had to remind one organization per their curtness:

youtube.com/watch?v=KFp5-WhQIEQ


Or could "Margie" or "Morgie" be as in "marginal", "marge" in Polish? "Margolis", though... wow, I didn't think about that. Anyway, toda for proving that I'm lo meshuga. I mean, I know that I'm a Żydówka, but nobody in the family wants to tell me. Meanwhile, could "Daniłowicz" indicate that I'm of b'nei Dan?

The Margiewicz comment is but one hypothesis. There could have easily been other sources, for instance the old verb margać (to wag, move; in modern Polish merdać) or the dialectal verb margotać (to mutter, mumble, speak under one's breath; standard Polish mamrotać). The only certian thing is the patronymic -wicz ending. So it might have originated to indicate the mumbler's son.

Regardless whether it is Foćko or Focko, Polish is a variant-rich language and the old first name Fortunat has generated a varity of forms inlcuding Foc, Foca, Focan, Fociuk, Focz and probably many more. With names often a 'unique-case scenario' comes into play -- a name thought up and used by only one family or even one branch of a given family.

Point taken, but we sure don't mumble in my family.


Well, in our case, what happened was that the Fockos (Foczkos) on our side converted to Slovakian-Hungarian Catholicism. The Polish Fockos (Foczkos) remained religiously Jewish.

What about Andrulewicz or Andrulevich? In other words, could it be broken into "Andru" (From the Lithuanian for "Andrew") and "Lewicz" ("Levitch", "ben-Levi"; in other words, "Levite")?

Andrius is Lithuanian equivalent of Russian Andrei which comes from Greek. Andriulis in Lithuanian means 'little Andrius' or 'dear Andrius'. Andriulis + evièius= Andriulevièius. I checked my Lithuanian surnames dictionary and there are a lot of different surnames with root Andr-, and Andrulevièius(without "i") almost exclusively comes from this little town STAKLISKES. Hope it helps.

Thank you so much. Was Andriulevièius (Andrulevièius) both Jewish and Catholic, or just Catholic? I ask because we're Jewish Andriulevièiuses (and our cousin Vil'gel'm lived in Buzhanka nad Zwenigorodka).

ŻEGLICKI: This is a typical toponymic tag from the village of Żeglice in Subcarpathia (which includes the Rzeszów area).

There's also

Czerniecki coat of arms
heraldry.ws/html/czerniecki-poland.html

There is no shown Chernetski, Czernecki, Czarnecki, or Czarniecki CoA.
google.com/search?q=czarnecki+coat+of+arms&hl=en&safe=off&tbo=u&authuser=0&tbm=isch&source=univ&sa=X&ei=iff2UNCaBuSE0QH2v4D4Bw&sqi=2&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=600#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&authuser=0&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=%22czarnecki+coat+of+arms%22&oq=%2 2czarnecki+coat+of+arms%22&gs_l=img.12...39687.42012.0.43882.2.2.0.0.0.0.56.106.2.2.0...0.0...1c.1.N3LckqAB6KU&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41018144,d.dmQ&fp=8ff181b22dbe1ed4&biw=1366&bih=600

(Note that some contain a six-pointed star).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Herb_Lodzia.jpg]Czarniecki
(This is to whom Pop-Pop tries to push us off to being related.)

google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_rn=1&gs_ri=hp&gs_mss=czernecki%20coat&tok=IHQdlRRWrPrCqx25d7UMtA&pq=czernecki%20coat%20of%20arms&cp=1&gs_id=2g&xhr=t&q=%22czernecki+coat+of+arms%22&es_nrs=true&pf=p&s afe=off&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&oq=%22czernecki+coat+of+arms%22&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=1&ion=1&biw=1366&bih=600&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&cad=b]

Notice that there is none.

I keep trying to tell you, we're Jewish.

One for "Margiewicz" has a six-pointed star, and none for Morgiewicz.
gajl.wielcy.pl/herby_nazwiska.php?lang=en&herb=Topor
- There are none for Andrulewicz or variants thereof.
- google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&safe=off&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=%22danilowicz+coat+of+arms%22&oq=%22danilowicz+coat+of+arms%22&gs_l=hp.3..0i30.523.9511.1.9804.9.9.0.0.0.0.113.648.8j1.9.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.94FaJbUmO ZA&pbx=1&fp=1&ion=1&biw=1366&bih=600&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&cad=b

(can be Jewish).

So, even if we were nobles, we were sure Jewish ones.

Not fining your


coat of arms do not means you are Jewish!
there was not many nobles who were Jewish, to be honest I cannot think about even one. Sure there could be nobles of Jewish origin but that is different kettle of fish.


Nope - it is one of the oldest Polish coats of arm -a star do not equate Jewish!


that is the same coat of arms as for Margiewicz - leliwa.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leliwa_coat_of_arms

Szlachta (gentry) clans to which the noble lines of the following surname bearers belonged:
Czerniecki = Korab
Czarniecki = £odzia.
Czarnecki = Leliwa, Lis, £odzia, Pobóg, Prus I, Prus III, Tępa podkowa and an own-name clan/armorial Czarnecki
Czernecki = none
Czernicki = Mogiła, Szeliga, own-name Czernicki
NOTE: Stars appearing in Polish coats of arms are exclusively six-pointed (there are no five-pointed ones) and had nothing to do with Jewishness.

Actually, it does:


Believe or not, we--not the Hindus--created the "Star of David"--which it eventually became. Besides, the Andruleviciuses were not nobles; and why would a non-noble marry a noble?Also, we were Czernecki (That got changed only after the pogroms--can you blame us? We were scared--Dad and Pop-Pop still are, even though they were born here.). Furthermore, Margeviches are recorded in Ariogala, and living outside of it--that's us (or relatives of ours, anyhow).

More info:

Also, we took surnames only because we were required to do it --and we took the "Czarniecki" form only after the pogroms. Furthermore, many Jews claimed to be related to nobles so that we could pass and/or assimilate to some extent (Actually, Natalie Wood's family, the Zaharenko Gurdins, claimed to be related to the Romanovs; and guess who you can find on JewishGen--a Zaharenko family from the Ukraine!):


Also, our tree never goes back to Stefan Czarniecki--it would have if we were related to him.

So, I'm just saying--and as I've said before, my family chose to leave Lithuania, Belarus, and the Ukraine for Poland Proper in those days.

My own great-great-grandmother was Aleksjondria Alicja Andrulewiczówna Czernecka.
Her dad's family became Crypto Jews (Anusim) during the 1700s, but our generation may have reverted back for a time (I had Andrelovich and Andrulevich cousins in Lithuania and the Ukraine, respectfully.). We had a common relative named Aleksjondria Alicja (Daniłowiczówna, since that's the only way that Great-Great-Grandma would have ever listed her in-law mother as a relative at Ellis Island.). So, then, my great-grandaunt and two cousins were named the same (that is, Alexandria Alice) besides her (that, among other Ashkenazic Jewish customs, never went away when we became Anusim. In fact, at least one cousin was named "Regina Marie" for another great-grandaunt when my great-grandaunt was at the point of death--Regina Marie Yudiski, an Andrulewicz/Andruskiewicz, named for Regina Marie Czernecki, specifically. We did observe some Sephardic customs as well, though--e.g., naming for living relatives, since Aunt Mary was named for both of her grandmothers and not the Virgin Mary.).