Jewish Roots of Poland

You talk about Jews as a whole, instead of realizing how only a small minority did **** to Poland. Why? It's like I said Poles in Britain are unthankful to Britain, just because some Poles might be behaving incorrectly.

Anyhow, I know Poles that claim that not a few Polish people have Jewish ancestry/blood.

What would be so bad about it?

No i'm talking about a significant enough percentage that we can assume it was a majority.


Actually it was a majority, especially in interwar period when Jews embraced starkly anti-Polish Zionism and in 1939 when Jews as a whole greeted and supported Soviet Russia which was the enemy of Poland and massively participated in genocide and repressions of the Poles.


Thats because we have little to be thankful for, Britain repeteadly betrayed and insulted Poland while Poland supported and protected the Jews, you're comparing a false and dishonest ally like Britain to a generous and kind host that Poland was for the Jews throught centuries, its a comparison completely out of place.


Jews and Poles didnt really mix much, while there might be some Poles with jewish ancestry you'd find far more Brits or even Germans with jewish blood.


Per se nothing but Jews are not liked, we're a nation that likes history and when discussing the Polish-Jewish history there's an inescapable fact of the enormous treason and backstab the vast majority of Jews in Poland commited upon her.

Add to that the fact that Jews always escaped any discussion about their treason and attrocities commited on Poles signing them off as polish anti-semitism and whatnot and you have the answer.

The rift that the Jews created between them and Poland by their behaviour is unhealable and permanent, we've got good relations with Israel and Jews are not persecuted in Poland since we're civilized people but by and large we dont like them for what they did to us and what they say today.

Of course Poles were not always saints and you can dig up examples of polish atrocities but they were neither the initiators of the conflict nor the more active side.

Complete and utter BS. But that's just what is to be expected from you.

Miguel, pls refer to other sources than Sokidoki if you want an unbiased and racist-free explanation of the relationship between Poles and Jews. Read for example, articles on the Kielce incident, where you can see how the Poles were "neither the initiators or the active side". And there are more examples.

Sokrates: Whatever. I hope you get a DNA test done soon and find out your Jewish origins. That would be lovely.

Why do you ask if you're not interested in the answer?:) Also already did, got a bit of a German and French in me, not an ounce of Jew, sadly :))))

Ha! C'mon here brother! *hugs Sok close*

And now i have your sympathy AND your car keys!:-)

Visit Poland, your car is already there...

Not yours, i dont do scrap :)

Would be difficult to get it across the Pacific anyway... :)

It sure was; that's why the Rothschilds and other rich Jews are building a '1000 Year History of the Jews in Poland' in Warsaw...Spending about $200 mil on it, too.

Notice: No 'Jewish Poles Museum' but 'Jews in Poland'.

Sokrates

You're not being serious about getting a DNA test on your ancestry, are you?

Not quite, Joe: jewishmuseum.org.pl/index.php?lang=en

"1000 years of the history of Polish Jews"

You said earlier that genetic science can prove this but how? You would need to test every Pole or at least a significant amount of Poles to determine that.

Also, it's been said that Jews who weren't Torah-observant would assimilate with the host country.

Now assuming the claim that Ashkenazic Jews do originate from the Middle East is true, they obviously had to do a lot of mixing with Europeans. They wouldn't look so white if they didn't. I see a lot of Ashkenazis around my area with light brown, dirty blonde, and sometimes even light shades of blonde hair. This isn't a characteristic of a Middle Eastern.

Boyo, this what I say 'Polish Jews' not 'Jewish Poles'...See, Like Polish-Americans as opposed to American Jews...Savvy?

1000 years?! Thats a bit of a stretch isnt it? Last i checked there were no Jews in Poland 1000 years ago.


There were statistical surveys done, they were even brought up, they've proven that most european Jews are ethnically european (slavic, germanic etc) rather than semitic.

Of course recently jewish studies pop up left right and centre that prove Jews have semitic roots etc, make up your own mind Ogien:)


Not really, its more of Europeans becoming converts and then staying with the Jews, to put it simply Jews got a lot more european blood then Europe jewish blood.

There was some mixing but the word some is very adequate, as far as Poland is considered 70% of elites were ethnically polish or silesian, the remainder was primarily german or ruthenian (both groups partly or completely polonised), Jews were never prominent in cultural or political elites of Poland, mainly due to their insular way of life, though they had several very accomplished representatives, especially in literature.

Not quite true. Have a look at following list, I would say they were pretty prominent.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Polish_Jews

I know it's Wiki, but can't hardly fcuk up with lists like this.

Jews fought in the Polish army, and were integrated in quite some segments of Polish every day, cultural and political life.

>^..^<

M-G (Jews have contributed in every country they live(d) in)

That list proves my point perfectly, a list of less then 200 people prominent on all fields throught history in a nation that has thousands of such people,also many of the people you listed contributed nothing to Poland but are present on the list as simply born in Poland or were in Poland but contributed nothing.

A few examples: Menachem Begin (1913-1992), Israeli prime minister, Nobel Laureate, 1978 (born in Poland) - no accomplishments in or for Poland.

Sala Burton (1925-1987), American politician[4] - no achievement for Poland.

At least a quarter of the list are Jews simply born in Poland without any achievements so it proves my point, a list of polish scientists in XX century alone is larger (much larger).


Some Jews were but very few if you consider their huge number in Poland, most Jews lived an insular life not contributing beyond paying taxes.

Any claims that Jews contributed anything serious to polish history are ridiculous in the light of even the list you provided.


Hardly, they've constituted the uneducated bottom of the polish society for ages with very few being actually educated, the infamous jewish bankers were a tiny fraction of an otherwise illiterate jewish masses.

They didnt contribute to the military or politics, economy or science, there have been few great achievers but given how many and how long the Jews were in Poland the number of accomplished Jews is pitifully small.

They were a docile illiterate mass that contributed very little to Poland as their host country.

It could also be that they were not given a chance. If you've read my small overview of the history and causes of anti-semitism, you could see that Jews before the 20th Century were effectively blocked from major parts of public life and confined - due to religious reasons - to only a handful of segments. Finance being one of them. And what made them infamous, well, there for sure will be some bankers which practices are not very koosjer (I hate banks in general), but before the 20th Century hatred of Jewish financial institutions was generally only present when it was time to pay back the loans the non-Jewish population had with them.

Even in interwar Poland which is the only period when Poles were truly prejudiced (not without reasons) Jews were given equal opportunity.

If you werent busy spitting on all things polish and learning history you'd know that till XIX century most Jews pursued religious learning and screw secular matters, they occupied small time trades such as carpentry, shoemaking, stuff that didnt require education.


In the West, your evil racist Poland did not block Jews from any part of public life, there was no social ostracism either, Jews were simply not interested as public duties often contradicted their religious practices, lack of incentive from the jewish side was the reason, the fact that some of them occupied such high offices is proof enough.

No Jew could even dream of becoming a major or a captain in say XVI century french army, we have (albeit a few) jewish officers as far back as XV century.


Jewish banking institutions in Poland became hated only in XIX and XX century when jewish bankers started playing with racial issues (putting Jews before Poles).

I was talking about all Europe, not only Poland.


Ok, what reasons would the Poles have to be prejudiced against the Jews in, say, 1920? Communism was still a Russian thing and as I recall there were no Jewish issues in Piłsudki's war against the Ukraine/Sovjet Union.

True that the Eastern European Jews were Askenazi and generally not really liked, also in the West as they were poor. But most of the Western European Jews were Portugese Sefardic, rich and darn good merchants and very welcome. There was basically one big issue in Western Europe concerning the Jews or anti-semitism and that was the Dreyfuss affair in the decades before WW1.

Ok, in the Netherlands Jews were for a very big part responsible for the success of the first corporation in the world, the Dutch East Indies Company (V.O.C.). Following this success, Jews got filthy rich and they weren't so really nice towards the not-so-rich. How come that those Jews weren't generally hated, met with prejudice or discriminated upon otherwise in NL? There was some, yes, but the vast majority did not hate the Jews. We may not have as many as in PL, but still we had substantial numbers of Jews, considering a small country like NL.

>^..^<

M-G (heard that they're gonna close the airports again due to the angry volcano)

Well i was talking about Poland which apparently wasnt as evil as you attempt to portray it if the Jews could become practically anyone.


Like hell there werent, Jews sided with Bolsheviks en masse, the majority of the Jews were pro-communist, the communist party in Poland was predominantly jewish as well.


Like Anne Frank and her family given out to Nazis by her neighbours?:) We can discuss anti-semitism in Netherlands right here and now its a pretty large topic, just make a new thread so we dont hijack this further.

Also in Poland Jews were not generally hated and didnt met with prejudice untill they sided with the Soviets and started murdering Poles and playing little racist with their economic practices.

You cant rationally f*ck with people in their own country and expect them to love you for that, people in Netherlands didnt (seriously make a thread since apparently you have no idea how serious anti-semitism in NL was).


First of all this "polish anti-semitism" is a myth, i dont like Jews because of Israel and their policies towards Poland but even today most Poles dont give a sh*t and second of all make a thread and i'll give you a nice lesson with links and pictures in regards to Netherlands being oh so caring towards Jews:)

Probably for the best. I'm a young guy in my mid twenties and had the chance to go inside Jews home in Toronto. An older guy, maybe 60 years of age. He had a few beautiful, vintage looking paintings (what is it with Jews and paintings?) in his apartment. I began complimenting him on the art work and he became suspicious and asked me what my ethnic background was. I replied, "Polish." He asks, "Are you Jewish?". I said, "No, Catholic." Needless to say he quickly became very unpleasant and muttered something about if his mother saw me here she'd run away- blah blah blah. He became quite belligerent and wanted to know my full name, etc. It felt kind of like an interrogation. I don't know if this crazy Jew thought I wanted to steal his paintings or something but it was a pretty awkward few minutes. I do photography so I was naturally interested in his art work. So the point is it's been a couple of generations after WWII and crazy a'ss Jews are still going after Poles over nonsense. How is a person my age supposed to begin to like Jews if they're so self centered and belligerent? I don't deal with Jews too much but I already know I do not like them. Poles don't complain over Germans and Russians like Jews do about Poles.

how significant, give me some numbers from a reliable source.


what was that about again? I don't remember.

A bit of a long story: a Jewish officer from the Alsache got accused of spying for the Germans based of falsified evidence, was sentenced and even when the true perpetrator was found, a Hungarian officer named Esterhazy, the judges didn't want to re-open the case, but Dreyfuss was acquitted. The fact that Dreyfuss was Jewish and from the Alsache mattered much in this. Emile Zola wrote his famous letter in L'Aurore, "J'accuse" because of the affair. Esterhazy, the real spy was never tried. Read about it here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreyfuss_Affair

It was a pretty nasty affair that sickened French society for a long time in the decades before WW1. Today we can still see the consequences of it: the Tour De France was actually a direct consequence of the affair.

>^..^<

M-G (cannot sleep, but giving it a new try; good night)

Dreyfuss affair was actually the public outlet of the severe anti-semitism that existed in France and to a lesser but still extreme extent in the Low Countries (including Netherlands which so merrily collaborated with Hitler in extermination of the Jews).

@Aphrodisiac can you read polish, russian or ukrainian?

For example recently Ukrainians published a list of soviet officers responsible for the great starvation in Ukraine 80% of them are jewish, of course Jews instatly hailed it as anti-semitism.

We know for example that Soviet groups denouncing and bringing in Poles marked for extermination were almost exclusively jewish, from the memoirs of Poles entire jewish populations of polish eastern towns hailed Soviets as liberators and went on to exterminate or abuse Poles, unless the entire polish nation spontanously decided to lie these are a pretty strong proof.

Now what language do you want links in, there's none in english since the West simply doesnt care but polish, russian and ukrainian are abundant, Russians themselves are happy to provide online publications that tell of the massive participation and leading role of Jews when murdering Poles in the east.


Dont lie please, society was largely against Dreyfuss as was the media, some outstanding representatives of the nation stood up for him but the street wanted his head.

Anti semitism has never been as severe in Western Europe, including France and the Low Countries as it was in Russia or in Poland. I am aware of the proceedings of NL during the war-years, but this was only in a very tiny number of examples due to extreme anti semitism, as it was more inspired by greed and cowardness. And indeed, neighbours, jealous of them rich Jews living next door, saw their chances when the Nazis came. But again, it wasn't inspired by an ideological or deep rooted anti semitism, more by materialism.

Jews in Western Europe and especially in the Netherlands and Belgium were extremely assimilated. In fact they were Dutch among the Dutch. So when the authorities (in NL) introduced a new system of registering the population which included registration of religion, Dutch Jews, unlike their counterparts in many other countries, went to the offices and had themselves registered and in the column where it asked for religion, they filled in a "J" for "Jood". These systems remained in tact, so when the Nazis came, only thing they had to do was go to those archives, read them and pick out the Jews, who were there registered. After that they only had to visit the address as this was registered as well. NL is a country that likes to register stuff and in the case of WW2, this habit worked against them.

For the rest of Dutch collaboration or any other Dutch anti semitism facts and matters, I would suggest you'd read Jacques Pressers' masterpiece "Ashes in the Wind - the destruction of Dutch Jewry". It has been translated from Dutch into English and the title I've given is the official English title.

nlpvf.nl/book/book2.php?Book=11


On one side one had the government, conservative parties, the church and the army and on the other side the progressive forces led by Emile Zola and Jean Jaurès. The schisma went through all layers of society, with the anti-Dreyfus group on one hand and the Dreyfusians on the other. There is no way to tell exactly how big the proportions were, but it's a safe to state that the majority found itself in favour of Dreyfus. Because the majority did have an idea that what was going on wasn't fair at all and was based on no clear grounds. Also the fact that an open letter by Zola was enough to break open the case and end the affair might illustrate that a majority was pro-Dreyfus.

Pointing their finger at officers, calling them by names. How did they get to that precision? They can't even give the number of people died of starvation:

The results based on scientific methods obtained prior to the opening of former Soviet archives also varied widely but the range was narrower: for example, 2.5 million (Volodymyr Kubiyovych), 4.8 million (Vasyl Hryshko) and 5 million (Robert Conquest).

One modern calculation that uses demographic data including that available from recently opened Soviet archives narrows the losses to about 3.2 million or, allowing for the lack of precise data, 3 million to 3.5 million.

Source: Wikipedia

Actually it was far more severe, there has never been a Dreyfuss case in Russia or Poland, Netherlands was a collaborating anti-semitic hellhole for example, so was France:)

The Vichy government had packed all of their Jews on train, as soon as Nazis requested it in writting.

But, of course, Jews don't mind and nobody else does. West is Best.