Jewish Roots of Poland

hague1cmaeron

That would depend on when it happened. I've heard many things about antisemitism in pre-war Poland but to my knowledge there was never any restriction on their employment. On the other hand his father could have meant the time before Poland regained its independence (I don't know what Russia thought of Jewish doctors). And of course he wouldn't be allowed to work in the hospitals during WWII. He could be also speaking of communist times, there was that whole "Anti-Zionist" campain, when many Jews lost their jobs (although it was mainly jobs connected to politics and administration). Finally, he could have meant it not literally - that Jews were unwelcomed in Tarnopol's hospitals or something.

A thing worth noting about Tarnopol is demography - In 1939 50% of the population was Polish, 40% Jewish and 10% Ukrainian. If half of the population wasn't Polish then I find it unlikely that hospitals were run solely by Poles.

I'm not so sure why you're being cocky. I don't know much about Polish history and I am legitimately interested in the issue. I've always heard that there was a lot of tolerance in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and antisemitic laws weren't initiated until the Prussians, Russians, and Austrians took over. That's why I'm asking if antisemitic laws were indeed started by ethnic Poles.

Nobody does. I'm sure he doesn't even know himself. Apparently he thinks he is smart or sth. According to him for every bad thing the Poles did, there has to be at least one or two bad thing(s) the Jews did to keep the balance. In his world it's unthinkable that Poles did anything bad at all without being "provoked" by Jews, so Jews are the evil ones, behind everything, even when it is Poles who did it. So far on Jola.

To answer the question: yes, any anti-semitic law valid on Polish territory with Poland being an independent state is made by ethnic Poles. Or would you rather think that it's logical that Jews participated in making laws that were directed at themselves?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

No, this was during Polish independence.

When, son? Which laws? In what period of time? What exactly interest you?


And the plastic Jew pops up alerted. Some of your posts lately rival Harry's. Remember when you used to actually post on topic and there was a chance you might begin to understand bits of Polish history?

In that case I see several possibilities:
1. Your father's colleague made it all up.
2. Your father's colleague misinterpreted his father's words.
3. His father made it all up.
4. His father didn't know why he was denied employment and simply assumed that it was due to antisemitism.
5. Your father's colleague wanted to make himself seem more important by stating that he hails from a family of doctors and not, say, farmers or building constructors.

6. His father competed for a job with a catholic and lost. Bitter, he blamed it on antisemitism.
7. The director of the hospital was antisemitic and didn't want to employ Jews so he lied that he's not allowed to do so by law.

Whichever one is true, the only way of proving him wrong is to present him with a list of Jewish doctors in pre-war Poland. The law was universal for the whole country so you don't have to search for them specifically in Tarnopol. My advice is to show him at least one full page of surnames, he won't be able to ignore that many. However, there's a possibility that he's simply too proud to admit that he was wrong or lying in which case he will never admit it, no matter how much evidence you present him with.

Also, from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Poland

The major industries in which Polish Jews were employed were manufacturing and commerce. In many areas of the country the majority of retail businesses were owned by Jews who were sometimes among the wealthiest members of their communities. Many Jews also worked as shoemakers and tailors, as well in the liberal professions; doctors (56% of all doctors in Poland), teachers (43%), journalists (22%) and lawyers (33%)

Hospitals would have to be seriously understaffed if 56% of doctors were refused employment.

Thank you for all the information. Yes I think he got caught out for one of the reasons you have mentioned.

Only if you stop defending everything the Poles do, even when it's bad. Remember when you still had the image of being objective? You lost that veil quite some time ago. And as long as you're absolutely not being objective, I will do this. Until you learn how to be objective again and learn to admit that even the Poles can make mistakes.

>^..^<

M-G (sometimes I wonder if you yourself know Polish history when it comes to dark sides)

nonsense

People know, but think that if they deny the bad things long enough and often enough people will start to believe revisionist history. This technique, if it works, only works for a time.

It's the same as that "good old" Soviet propaganda, eh?

>^..^<

M-G (yeah, they are good at hiding the dark spots while making believe that PL is the example par excellence of goodness and never did anything wrong)

Meh given that Poland was a powerfull country over quarter of a millenium old before first significant jewish communities started this thread is rubbish.

Poland has polish roots with a bit of german and ruthenian influence, Jews are a late and rather small contributor.


In the last few days you managed to tell 11 different people they're not objective just because they pointed out where you lied or made things up.

Sooner or later you have to learn that you cant base your point of view on Ad Hominem attacks and making stuff up to fit your own biased opinion, people do and will catch you by the hand as you keep lying.


Yet you claim Poland to have anti-semitic laws, last i checked it had none, so are you that stupid or is there some ill will behind the nickname:)

You are childish.


I'm actually in the middle of several texts dealing with the dark side of Polish history, and there are Jews as main instruments of terror at the top of the ladder.

To answer your question, no they werent and there were no anti-semitic laws in inter-war or previously Crown Poland.

So you're saying it was a paradise, with Jews having equal access to state jobs?

:-))

Jewish Roots of Poland

What, the Piasts were Jews?...Hey, if there are any Piasts out there, go lay your claim to Israel, as God gave that land to you.

For Jews? Yes it was, and yes they had access to equal jobs unless class stratification came to play, a noble jew could not be a banker since all Polish nobles werent supposed to work etc.

Otherwise a Jew had the same opportunities as a Pole or a German in his group.

Despite that Jews contributed suprisingly little to Poland and their primary heritage is the memory of their repeated betrayal of Poland, during the partitions, the 1920 and WW2 so i still find the name of the thread disturbing.

Saying Poland has jewish roots is like saying Ireland has chineese roots.

So you're actually saying that 1930s Poland was a paradise for Jews. Now I've heard it all. Unless you have a pretty twisted definition of paradise...

No i'm saying that 1930 Poland was a society of equal opportunity for Jews, there was a negative backlash in Poland at the time towards jewish racist anti-polish practices as regarding their attempts to monopolize various trades as jewish only.

Older Poles readily recount unethical practices by the local jewish merchants aimed at rooting out polish trade in the region, not only did the polish Jews fail but they antagonized the Poles in the process.

That understandable negative backlash by the Poles did not however translate into Jews having less opportunities or being limited in any way.


Poland was a country that offered equal priveligies and opportunities, only when Jews embraced the racist ideals of Zionism and attempted to opress Poles in their own country did Poles turn against the Jews in self defence but even then Poland offered the protection that no other country in Europe did.

I have no idea what anti-Polish bias you're basing your opinion off but its clear there's prejudice there.

Obviously the Jews weren't perfectly innocent. No ethnic group is and there was definitely at least some antipolonism among the Jews.

With that said, Poland was a much better place to live in for the Jews than most of Europe. Why else would most of the Jewish population live in Poland for centuries? At least Poland didn't expel the Jews like most European countries.

To be brutally honest, Poland was a paradise for the Jews untill Jews themselves messed it all up.

When Kościuszkos Insurrection broke out the few politically conscious Jews sided with Poland but already in the next insurrection they were pro-russian.

Financial and social gain pushed Jews to work against their polish hosts untill more than a century later most of jewish elites in Poland. were rampantly anti-polish and racist towards non-Jews in general.

By that point the Jews created an impassable, unhealable rift between them and the Poles, all the gossip and heresay about how "anti-semitic" Poland is or was is manufactured to conceal the harsh truth and extent of betrayal and shamefull conduct of Jews in Poland towards Poles and Poland.


Seeing what great harm and little contribution the Jews brought to Poland i sometimes wonder whether accepting them in our country was the right thing to do...

Thank God this is coming from you and not from a sane person. Like I said some time earlier, I have stopped taking you seriously a long time ago. And besides, nobody gives a shyte about your opinion, little man.


Names, pls.


Sure Jola, sure...You just so happened to find that nearly all bad things in PL happened because of the Jews. You are so predictable, it's nearly pathetic.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

that big crooked Polish nose, is that stemming from Jewish roots then?

Quite a lot of them, Jola brings to the table a certain historic fact, plenty of top communists instrumental to the destruction of Poland were Jews, i like how you failed to adress that point and as always went on to insult the poster instead since throwing mud requires no historic knowledge from you and you know you wont be caught lying, again.

This has nothing to do with the topic of the thread that deals with Jewish roots of PL and not with communist Poland or would you say that PL was already communist in the 14th century?

Speaking of insulting other posters, I learned from the best, you miserable dwarf. It's not my fault you don't have a life and that history of PL doesn't exist if it's not glorious and an example for the whole world. Well, contrary to what you may belief, PL is not that important. And besides, I only fight bullcrap from you and Jola and some others. Intolerant bastards like you who tend to overglorify the history of a marginal country.

Wasn't it a dwarf like you that called some of the best Polish historians liars just because they came with facts that you didn't like? Hm. Remarkably how you call everybody a liar who presents a truth you don't like. Get a new act.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Yeah, it's easy to blame Jews for the sh1t that happened in your country. Scapegoating that is.

There's no such roots, what else is there to discuss on the subject?


Oh fock you i'm entitled to insult people because thats me, you're not entitled to even look at people because thats you :)))))))))))


Oh far from it, the greatest perils of my country happened due to its neighbours, Jews never initiated any of the great atrocities against Poland, they "just" participated in all of them.

Considering there were many Jews in Poland in the past, it's naiv to assume that millions of Jews will stay out of dubious deeds. It's logic to say that some of them will end up doing bad things. And no, it's not related to them being Jews.

So you and your friend use this conveniently to spout your anti-semitic vile on this forum once more?


Miguel, you musn't forget that Sokidoki and his little helper don't like Jews to the point where they have become racist. To them all good flows from the Poles themselves and all bad flows from the others, notably the Jews. It simply doesn't fit in their little world that Poles can do bad things too. In fact, to them Poles are so glorious and good ppl, they don't even need jails in Poland and no Pole could do sth criminal :) Well, there is one jail, for the foreigners, because they are the only ones that do criminal things over there.

>^..^<

M-G (gee, wonder where that Polish gang that confessed to at least 30 burglaries in Southern NL came from - surely they only were called Polish as no Pole would ever do that)

Naturally but the fact that so many communists and tormentors of Poland were Jews and that jewish community at large repeteadly betrayed Poland from which it received so much cannot escape attention.

Sad enough is that Germans and Russians were contenders for european domination, they destroyed Poland because Poland while still an european power hindered them, Jews were polish guests and citizens, they received shelter when none in Europe would have them and built themselves a good life in Poland, in exchange they betrayed her and murdered her people.

In this context saying that Poland has roots with some of its butchers is... y'know.