Jewish Roots of Poland

You are asuming I am an ignorant merely because I don't agree with you or refuse to understand people constantly criticizing Israel for everything.

Yesterday I came to the conclusion that for a Jew to be good in the eyes of European media and/or activists like you, he has to be a victim and not fight back.

It seems these are your own issues and insecurities about your intelligence because I can't see where did Seanus insult you in any way.

People are entitled to be interested in whatever they want to..

What I meant was that you seemed oblivious to a very simple point. That many activists are not from the ME itself. Heck, Palestinians can't even leave Gaza so how would they be able to spread the message? You are very free to disagree with me, that's the point.

No, again you don't read what I write. I have said it a couple of times that Israel cannot go on granting concessions to a largely ungrateful Palestinian bunch. I have also said that the IDF must protect Israelis and, furthermore, that Israel has a right to exist. I just object to the brutality and disproportionate nature of some Israeli responses.

I respect the fact that Rabbis freely practise their religion and see the folly of some strands of Zionism.

That's known to everybody, including me. I just wanted to point at the fact that I don't understand their engagement for a region most of them have no connection to.


You do know there are many Palestinians outside of Gaza spreading the "message"?

Oh, I actually don't read all your posts. I can't be bothered to.

Whatever, I'm off now.

A little sth called news, MC. Those with a conscience can champion causes and reject unfair treatment. Heck, just think of the EU and their so-called legislators. Why would Brussels bureaucrats see fit to regulate the straightness of Polish gherkins/pickles? What interest do they have in regional Polish production? Under the Subsidiarity Protocol, Art 5b of the Amsterdam Treaty, it should not be within their competence but they deem it to be. We are people with broad minds, why confine your focus?

Yes, I'm aware of that. However, do they have the fund-raising capabilities of folk like George Galloway? He managed to raise 1 million pounds in 1 month by spreading the message.

Well, don't presume to know what I believe or what I don't without seeing the fuller picture.

Thanks for the tip from Jerusalem that what I'm looking for is 15 min. away from me in Warsaw. I was going to call ŻIH but I thought she requested they be shown in Israel. I found my book and I didn't remember correctly what she had written.

Just out of interest, here is my translation of what she wrote:

"Gela Seksztajn (Testament):

What can I say at present and what can I request?
Since I am standing at the edge of life and death, when I am more convinced that I will die than that I will live - I want to say goodbye to my friends and to my art works.

Ten years of effort - I collected, destroyed, and worked again. I was getting ready to display my paintings, and especially my "portraits of a Jewish child." Now, I am rescuing, within my means, whatever is possible and for whatever there is space. In addition, I am leaving in "Lord's hands" tens of my oil works, portraits of Jewish writers, scetches, and coal drawings.

I am not asking for hymns of praise; I only ask there will be a memory of me and my daughter, a talented girl, Magalit Lichtensztajn [...], who at the age of twenty months is showing a talent for painting... She is a Jewish girl, speaks nicely in Yiddish, and is beautifully developed psychologically and physicaly.

I offer my works to the Jewish Museum, which will be created in the future to rebuild pre-war Jewish cultural life and for the study of this horrible tragedy which befell the Jewish community in Poland during the war.

Alone, I am not capable to pass on the details of our demise and the great tragedy of our nation. I leave that to my friends - the Jewish writers.

I ask the person who finds my works to take into considerationn that I had to reduce their format and adapt to the present conditions.

Warsaw, 1 August 1942."

Source: Archiwum Ringelbluma. Dzień po dniu Zagłady. p.179 [I1456]

She wrote this a week after the deportations to Treblinka started and now I see that her artworks were found in the first cache of the archives found in 1946.

You know, if people here weren't busy discussing "why all Polish girls have two ears," we could actually learn something. Now, I get to see her art.

Now I've learned about this artist who i didn't know. Thanks.

and now I heard from my ex-neighbor who is an Amsterdamer, that there is some of them there aswell, apparently they go to Surinaam and swallow packets of this addictive party drugs and then promote it on the streets.

They even corrupt the AFCA supporters with that devil powder

they still drugs in Colombia.

see, now you got CIA on your behind smartypants, did you watch a film about drug dealers and wanted to make easy money?

Analysis of Jewish genomes refutes the Khazar claim:

newsweek.com/2010/06/03/the-dna-of-abraham-s-children.html

First of all, claims in this study are not clear. Flue words about Ashkenazi and Khazar relation. Sure, Sephardic and Italian Jews are probably middle east origin, and these Jews do not want Ashkenazi Jews originated from Khazars.

Secondly, this is one study. Most of studies including some DNA studies show that Ashkenazi Jews originated from Khazar.

Arabs don't like Ashkenazi Jews owned Israel lands, we know. But, Israel being owned by Ashkenazis (Khazars) is better than being owned by Sephardics or Middle East origin jews.

That makes sence. Especially when one considers there were already Ashkenazi jews in Europe before the Khazars converted.

Even if the Ashkenazis were turkic..what would that change? They are still Jews.

You Colombians sure know a lot about Jewish culture, maricon :)

This makes the tight connection between Israel and Turkey (at deep states levels) as it has been done for centuries. And this means a big major (though invisible) force in the world. Ottoman Sultans had known these Ashkenazi Jews for centuries and had close relations with Ashkenazi Jews for centuries. Just an example, Sultan Mehmet II when capturing constantinopolis/istanbul, his big balls/cannons were casted by a Hungarian (read Ashkenazi Jew) craftman.

Religion is not important for Turks (see Turks have different religions) as well as for these Ashkenazi Jews who control money power.

I am a Colombian born sephardic Jew, you idiot.

Maricon=your toilet-cleaning daddy ;)


Turks are mostly muslims.

Ashkenazi jews control the world. Be sure they would have shot you dead if they did control the world.

Not so actually.. Lets say so.. you know what? Arabs consider Turks as their biggest enemies. Thats why Arabs hate Israel being owned by Ashkenazi Jews who are Turkic origin. If Israel were in control of Sefardic/Semitic jews, Arabs would not object.

Hate between these two folks Arabs and Turks goes back to 8th century. No ottoman sultan had gone to hajj even though they were qaliphate (leader of all muslims.) Just this shows that turks actually not really muslims. Even today, a muslim party can not take more than 40% of the votes even if they spent much money.

So much for you knowing South American Spanish.

I speak Spanish perfectly ,and no toilet-cleaning Polish humanoid will teach me how to speak it.


Arabs against Turks? They better get used to Turks, for Turkey will make the muslim world join against Israel.

And I am sure most of Arabs don't know about A.Jews having a turkic origin. They surely wouldn't care about the racial background of a zionist.

Ordinary Arab doesnt know, but, who cares an ordinary folk, they are usually like sheeps. Their shepherds (Arab kings, royals, riches, intellectuals, etc) know that Ashkenazi Jews are Turkic and they control Israel. Thats why Arabs hate Turks. Rich Arab kingdoms dont import any good from Turkey and pay double price to Europe, just not to help Turks make money. Zionists are racists? Maybe. But, Arabs, Europeans, etc are more racists.

All humans are racists.

Actually ,the human race is a mistake (1jola being a great example). See the film Earthlings for a reference.

I disagree. I wish I had clear blue eyes. :-(

LOL

all those domestic historians..;-)

Jews are generally very close society (see: [Ghetto]) so they didn't mix a lot with the rest of population and if they did - it happened mostly in the big cities.

They lived mostly in a large cities (with some exceptions of course - there were small towns populated mostly or only with Jews) and the most of Poles lived in small towns and rural areas before the World War II.

So, Jews were tolerated in Poland (not like in the 'European' countries that wants to teach us tolerance nowadays ;-)) but not to the extent that there were some kind of massive race mixing in Poland (besides like a said before Jews in Poland were a close society those days).

But I agree, some Poles have Jewish ancestors and some are Polonized Jews but they still consider themselves to be Poles (how many Turks in Germany truly consider themselves to be Germans? Or Muslims in France to be French? ;-))

[i]Ghetto was originally used in Venice to describe the area where Jews were compelled

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto


Evidently your level is English language isn't too good, the word compelled means:

1. To force, drive, or constrain: Duty compelled the soldiers to volunteer for the mission.
2. To necessitate or pressure by force; exact: An energy crisis compels fuel conservation. See Synonyms at force.
3. To exert a strong, irresistible force on; sway

So it had little to do with them "wanting" to live in tight knit communities...it was rather through lack of choice, same as in Prague where they were only allowed to live in a certain part of the city.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vjw/Prague.html

In 1179, the church announced that Christians should avoid touching Jews. In this period, civil rights granted to Jews were severely limited and they were forced to build their community on the right bank of the Vltava, close to Staromestske Namesti, the Old Town Square. This limited their movements and identified them as a minority group. This was the origin of the Jewish ghetto. By day movement was free, but in the evening and on festivals the gates of the ghetto were locked.

See, nothing to with with:



Thats good of you...


A muslim is a person that follows islam which is a religion not a nationality - do you mean Algerians in France who are generally mulsim?

Amathyst

Nice ;-)

But what I meant is an ethnic ghetto (I guess Jews had a right to choose their place of living in the country of freedom and democracy, or were they compelled there?):

"..Other ethnic ghettos were the Lower East Side in Manhattan, New York, which, until the 1990s, was predominantly Jewish..." (same source)

And of course I understand that Jews were conditioned this way through the centuries of separation. But we are talking about facts here - not a moral judgement.

The answer to your second question:

Not sure if the Muslim population in France consists of Algerians only, but yes.
Let's say: all the French citizens of Arabic or/and Persian descent that happens to be Muslims :-)

"...The Jews (Hebrew: יְהוּדִים‎), also known as the Jewish people, are a nation and ethnoreligious group originating in the Israelites or Hebrews of the Ancient Near East. The Jewish ethnicity, nationality, and religion are strongly interrelated, as Judaism is the traditional faith of the Jewish nation..." Wiki

So yes, as far as Jews are concerned - religion is a nationality.

Religious Jews live in Jewish enclaves because of their strict observance to the Torah, and the Talmud. Which would make it very difficult for them, to live within a Christian or secular neighborhood. Not impossible just very difficult, frum Jews (religious Jews) lives are completely governed by what is written in the Torah.

Poland does not have jewish 'roots'. Poland pre-existed it's jewish population.

Poland's jews came from east, and west, Europe. England, Spain, Germany, all kicked out their jewish populations for various reasons. You should investigate that, why no one wanted the jews to live near them or do business with them back then. The king of Poland at the time (12th century or so) offered them safety in Poland and many obviously accepted the offer. Many also came from Russia.

Of course, the Catholic church was also very powerful back then and there were strong biases within there against jews too, aside from other politics. Poland is a Catholic country, but I don't think the inquisitions were as rampant there as in western europe, I've never seen anything written about inquisitions in Poland.

Martin Luther wrote an essay about the jews in the 16th century, his thoughts probably express common sentiments of the times.

a copy of that is here:

On the Jews and Their Lies, 1543
by Martin Luther
humanitas-international.org/showcase/chronography/documents/luther-jews.htm

In the 16th century most of the population could not read, I think some of the sentiments expressed by Martin Luther and the educated classes, who had access to Jewish scriptures and could read Hebrew or common Greek. Some of the writings are not nice reading for the Christians who considered themselves the true religion.

PS I hope you can understand this, I don't know how to put your quotes in boxes

Don't know for sure if he expressed the general sentiments towards Jews at the time, but I know for sure that Luther wrote this angry pamphlet out of frustration that the Jews refused to convert to Lutheranism.


A big part of the educated classes were Jews themselves, so it's highly unlikely that they would write hate-literature against themselves.

Btw: the usual reason to kick Jews out of one's country was the refusal to convert to Christianity.

>^..^<

M-G (yay!)

Of course you are right the Jews would not write hate-literature about themselves, I was referring to the Christian educated classes. I am aware the Jews were used as political scape-goats, by the ruling classes, sometimes to redirect revolts againist themselves. And by the Church to emphasise that the way to salvation, lay with them the Christian Church. Other wise the Christians would have wiped them out in Europe long before that. The Jews were kept alive in Europe because they were an easy mark, to blame when time got tough.

I hope you are keeping well M-G and your health has improved.

I highly recommend the book, "The Jews of Poland" (A social and Economic History of the Jewish Community in Poland from 1100-1800)by Bernard D. Weinryb, and published by "The Jewish Publication Society of America"(1972).

It's from a Jewish perspective (but/and) quite informative. Even when there are occasional attempts to blame Poles for something, it's still obvious that Poland was the best and safest place for Jews in Europe or possibly anywhere. Backhanded compliments to Poles are more than evident.

The Jews in the Netherlands had it pretty good too.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_the_Netherlands

>^..^<

M-G (yay!)