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Why are we paying child benefit in Poland?


espana 17 | 911  
4 Dec 2009 /  #1
what we do?
we stop global warming or we stop 38.000 Hungry poles children

in 2009 the poles keep doing the same.
2006 was 45M
2009 20M
2012 fxxx off

Here's a puzzle for you: what are we doing paying benefits for children who do not live in Britain, and may have never visited our shores? The Treasury says it cannot put a figure on the amount, but the best guess is that about £20 million in child benefit was coughed up by British taxpayers last year to support almost 38,000 children living in Poland.

telegraph.co.uk/comment/telegraph-view/6475309/Why-are-we-paying-child-benefit-in-Poland.html

2006
https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/uk-ireland/poles-claiming-state-benefit-cost-3814/
Wroclaw Boy  
4 Dec 2009 /  #2
we stop global warming or we stop 38.000 Hungry poles children

38000 thats exactly 0.1 % of the population there Espana I think you may have your figures messed up.

Hungarian Poles or Poles that need food?

in 2009 the poles keep doing the same.
2006 was 45M
2009 20M
2012 fxxx off

I dont understand that at all.

Tens of thousands of Eastern European migrants living in Britain are exploiting a loophole in the law to claim UK child benefit for children they have left behind or living with them.

Well that has to be a first a source traced back to a forum poster of this site dated back to 2006. A source from this forum no less, good work..
OP espana 17 | 911  
4 Dec 2009 /  #3
I dont understand that at all.

about £20 million in child benefit was coughed up by British taxpayers last year to support almost 38,000 children living in Poland.
2009 £20 millons
2006 £45 millons

Poles that need food?




santander 1 | 68  
4 Dec 2009 /  #4
Well forget about that for now, if Britain signs up to the EU changes on inheritance law, I think that child benefit will be the least of their worries!
Mister H 11 | 761  
5 Dec 2009 /  #5
what we do?

No idea. I don't think that there is much that we can do, however, one day the money will run out then something will have to be done.

Things such as benefit entitlement illustrate perfectly why countries such as Poland and others should never have been allowed into the EU - not with the rules in place at the time anyway - as their economy simply wasn't up to it.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
5 Dec 2009 /  #6
espana

espana:
in 2009 the poles keep doing the same.
2006 was 45M
2009 20M
2012 fxxx off

About 3 years ago, I was asked by my Polish neighbour, to help him with some forms that were written in English. The forms were applications to claim for child benefit while he was working in Ireland (he had been there for around a year). I wanted to fully understand the circumstances of the regulations regarding his right to claim for his children living here in Poland, so, I looked up the necessary rules on the English government website and also the EU website.

I found out that the regulation that allowed him to claim for child benefit was in fact an EU law.
This stated that workers who travelled to a member state could claim the same benefits that the people of the member state enjoyed.
The British government made certain conditions applicable when people from other member states came to work in the UK. The right to unemployment benefit, the right to free health care (except in an emergency), the right to job-seekers allowance, the right to housing or housing benefit would not be paid until the person concerned, had worked continually and paid tax and national insurance (ZUS) for a period of 12 months.

Obviously, someone in the Labour government had not done their homework, child benefit is not for adults, its paid to every child who is a dependant of a person working in the UK, it is not based on any amount of earnings. If you had a salary of £100,000 a month, your children are still entitled to their child benefit. Suffice to say, that once the word went around, the workers who had travelled to the UK, the applications for this benefit, flooded in. From a couple of hundred in the first few months, to many thousands a month, and, as it was an [b]EU law and the British obey without question, all EU laws/regulations[/b] ( they are the only country to do so), it still applies to this day.

From memory, it was costing the British taxpayer some £24 million per annum 3 years ago and the prediction was for £50-60 million per annum by 2010. Another interesting point about this benefit, is,that once you apply, it is back-dated for 3 months, so, you get 3 months more money than you thought you would get.

Every year, the newspapers drag up this story when they want to bash the economic immigrants to the UK, but the Labour government remains silent on this subject as they will never admit to having made the mistake of allowing this to happen, its too controversial and would give the anti-euro/anti immigration sceptics to much ammunition.

I have a daughter here in Poland, what can I claim?, even if there were any forms in English to advise me or help me?....nothing.

There were so many applications for this benefit in Ireland alone, that it took my neighbour some 2 years to get the money that was due to him. It came in one nice big lump, so much for the need or hardship involved for this type of payment.

Do I think that there is something wrong with the system that allows this?, yes. Do I begrudge my neighbour his ability to claim this money?, no. If the British government is stupid enough to do this and the British people who voted the Labour government into power are so complacent as to allow their taxes to be used in this way, they deserve all that they get.

You only have to read/hear your daily news to see how much financial trouble the UK is in. The wastage by the present government is phenominal, the sums of money lost are mind-boggeling and yet, nobody is to blame, nobody is responsible.(Gordon Brown has in the last few weeks promised, £100 billion towards climate change, to increase the amount the UK gives in foriegn aid, upwards from £12 million pounds a day. Every time the man makes a trip abroad he promises to give money to someone, who's money is this? How can the UK afford this?) If I hear the expression that "its a worldwide crises", once more, I will scream. Somebody started it, yet everyone else has to pay.

I have not visited the UK for 4 years now, I cannot bring myself to go there as I know it would make me so angry to see the decline of a once, great, country. The anger would be directed at the British people who allowed this to happen. All the lessons learnt from the last centuary ignored. Socialism, never works.
Mister H 11 | 761  
5 Dec 2009 /  #7
The anger would be directed at the British people who allowed this to happen. All the lessons learnt from the last centuary ignored. Socialism, never works.

May I ask who you would have voted for had you been living here for the three general elections Labour won ?

As for the child benefit situation, what is interesting to me as someone that works in collections for a large bank is the fact many Polish people can't manage even with all the extra help they get. £80 a month child benefit does little to help when you owe about £10,000 in loans, credit cards and overdrafts.

Many live in the UK now because they are trapped in a spiral of debt. Debts caused by their greed, naivety and in some cases not understanding English properly. This is together with the idiotic banks lending money to people with little or no credit history.

The Polish maybe patting themselves on the back for a job well done in rinsing the UK's benefit system, but many are finding that they are not getting the last laugh as they flee back home in a bid to escape bankruptcy.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Dec 2009 /  #8
Very good post, Avalon. It is the fault of the government and not of claimants who are aware of their rights. The British government wants a bigger role in regulating, now we see it. You also didn't make the mistake that many Brits and others make that the Poles should be the same as us, to pay out in similar fashion. They don't have the money to be a fully-fledged nanny state.

Socialism has its merits but all I need to say is Animal Farm. They can get quite good payouts, I discussed this with my wife who has a friend who claimed there. I hate the crisis being used as an excuse too, Avalon. Some friggin crisis when you can afford to be Santa Claus every day of the week.

Brown was taken to task on this but he prevaricated to his best ability. Cameron grilled him in the HoC and he just sidestepped his questions. I was never a big fan of Thatcher for many reasons but she would have stood up to EU bureaucrats more and not created so many dependants.
Mister H 11 | 761  
5 Dec 2009 /  #9
Very good post, Avalon. It is the fault of the government and not of claimants who are aware of their rights.

He also blamed the electorate, which is fair enough in some ways, but at the same time what were the alternative parties going to do ? Would they have been any different ?

Also, politicians are very good at keeping such stuff hidden. I like to think I keep myself informed as to what is going on, but I had no idea Poland and the others joining the EU would have such dire consequences for the British.

Knowing what I know now, I wouldn't have voted for Tony Blair.
wiesiek 1 | 36  
5 Dec 2009 /  #10
As for the child benefit situation, what is interesting to me as someone that works in collections for a large bank is the fact many Polish people can't manage even with all the extra help they get. £80 a month child benefit does little to help when you owe about £10,000 in loans, credit cards and overdrafts.

Many live in the UK now because they are trapped in a spiral of debt. Debts caused by their greed, naivety and in some cases not understanding English properly. This is together with the idiotic banks lending money to people with little or no credit history.

Their greed or the Banks greed.? Why did the banks not check if they could pay off the loans they were given.

They banks in the States lent vast sums to people who had no chance of paying their debts. Now the whole world has to pay. In the UK the figure is quoted at 85 billion, to bail out the banks.

Banks should have done more to protect their customers, and the leaders of the banks get paid vast bonuses for screwing up. I have no compassion for banks they should have been made to go under, like any other business.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Dec 2009 /  #11
Cameron surely wouldn't have been so generous with benefits, unless he was paid off to serve a pan-European agenda by the federalists. Brown doesn't appear to care as much as Tusk does about being voted back in in forthcoming elections. He knows his fate!
IronsE11 2 | 442  
5 Dec 2009 /  #12
You think Child Benefit is bad? You'd better close your eyes when the Child Tax Credit figures are put in front of you.

Speaking as someone who works in benefit administration, I can safely say that the system is in need of major reform.
Mister H 11 | 761  
5 Dec 2009 /  #13
Their greed or the Banks greed.?

Both. People know when they are living outside of what they can comfortably afford and, yes, of course the banks have the power and the responsibility not to lend, but at the same time people don't have to borrow.

I'm all for holding the banks to account for their actions, but the people taking out the loans and credit cards etc should take their part of the blame too.

It will take much more than some child benefit and working tax credits to pay back what many people (including many Polish people) have borrowed.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Dec 2009 /  #14
I'm watching a presentation by Brian Gerrish who speaks on Common Purpose. Go to Google Video. He is a noble English gentleman, the kind that I respect. He alludes to many factors which are impacting on our government and its operation.

Cultural Marxism at the moment. He is not PC and he states this from the outset. Yet he is a fair and balanced gent.

He has just covered one of the most critical of issues. National sovereignty, as championed by Thatcher, under attack from the globalists. For Brits, their loyalty to the Queen will be tested as she is at the centre of the debate.

As for benefits, the globalists want so many to pay so that the taxpayer goes into debt and we descend into chaos. More mixing means more call for supranational government, not the governance of our own nationals.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
5 Dec 2009 /  #15
Mister H

May I ask who you would have voted for had you been living here for the three general elections Labour won ?

I was one of "Maggies" children. I have always voted Conservative. I started my own business in 1973 and did very well, but by 2002 I knew where Labour was heading and realised that my fellow Britons were to stupid to try and change things. If I could not change what was happening, it did not mean that I had to be a part of it, so I walked away.

How the people who claim child benefits, spend the money, does not concern me. I was merely pointing out that the advisers to the government, who should have warned them about the consequences of having to pay child benefits to economic migrants were inadequate to do their jobs. I expect that there are many clauses hidden in the Lisbon treaty that will jump out and bite them on the ass at a later date. Who bothers to read the small print?

He also blamed the electorate, which is fair enough in some ways, but at the same time what were the alternative parties going to do ? Would they have been any different ?

I have no idea if the Conservatives would have done a better job. I do know that individuals with money, generally know how to look after it. Labour polititions make there money, during and after they have served their term in office and every time they lose power, the country is left with huge debts. As I have said before, the poor do not pay taxes, the rich can afford good accountants to avoid their taxes, which leaves the middle income earners to get hammered.

wiesiek

In the UK the figure is quoted at 85 billion, to bail out the banks.

You forgot the other "0", they have spent £107 billion to date and the final bill will be around £850 billion. It has been said that this equates to £40,000 for every family in the UK. Take out the families on low incomes, say 50%, who have no ability to pay this back, you are left with £80,000 per family who have a disposable income to pay this off. This is more than the average mortgage owed at the moment.

IronsE11

Speaking as someone who works in benefit administration, I can safely say that the system is in need of major reform.

So explain to me how you get the Genii back into the bottle? Try taking away benefits once they have been given and the poor have become dependant on them. social anarchy.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Dec 2009 /  #16
This is the anarchy they seem to want. They want debts and for the ruthless to continue to make grotesque profits. The middle class will have to learn how to fight.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
5 Dec 2009 /  #17
If I was still living in the UK now, a male and my age was , say 50-55, my mortgage was paid or nearly paid off and I was intelligent enough to realise that the financial state of the UK will be dire for the next 20-30 years, I would be having the following thoughts:-

1) The government have raised the retirement age from 65 to 67 and already they are talking about the possibility of raising it again to 70, so I will have possibly another 15 years to work, what if I have to leave work earlier due to ill health, how will I manage?

2) Taxes, both direct and indirect are going to have to rise to pay for the money the banks and the government have lost, which means that any money I earn will be worth less than I am getting now, how will I manage?

3)More money will be needed for the asylum seekers and people on benefits and to fund their children and their childrens children, where will this money come from?

4) My fuel bills are increasing by double digits every year, how much will the "green taxes" add to my future bills?, the government has not increased pensions in line with inflation, will a future government do this?

4) If petrol keeps increasing, will I be able to afford to run a car. Public transport is too expensive and unreliable, how will I get around.

5) Michael Portillo (Con) MP, warned me 18 years ago that anyone under the age of 40 at that time, would not get a state pension as there will be no money left to pay for this. So am I a fool to rely on a state pension when I retire?. How will I manage if I have to dip into my savings, just to enable me to live over the next 15 years?.

6) Crime is so bad now that I am scared to leave the house. Even if I do go out I do not feel safe. Many people in my area have been attacked and the police do not seem to be able to stop this. The courts seem to be imposing very lenient sentences which do not act as a deterrent, what can I do?

7) If I get ill and need a non-urgent operation I will have to wait up to 2 years or more unless I am prepared to pay for this privately, they say that there are no beds available due to the sheer numbers wanting teatment and that I am a low priority? It never used to be like this, did it?

8) After I retire, if I have to go into a care home, they will sell my house and use the money to pay for my treatment. I was hoping to leave the house to the kids, why have I been paying my contributions for all this time? People who do not own their house do not pay, why should I?

I could think of many other questions i would be asking myself and with the knowledge I have now, the answer would be easy.

Sell up, move to Poland, buy a flat or house for around £60,000 and invest the rest of the money. Live on the interest, do not bother to work, medical costs are a fraction of what they are in the UK and as you are paying privately, the treatment is usually better. I would not miss my neighbours because I never knew them anyway, they were all too busy with their own lives to even be civil. Walk around in safety. The Polish police are not interested in the human rights of the person who attacks or robs you.

4,6, and 10 year sentences are normal for 1st offences in Poland, not 80 hours community service or a £50.00 for the 8th offence.
There is no £500.00. fine for putting your rubbish bin out on the wrong day.
No £60.00. if your baby drops a biscuit out of the pram.
No towing your car away and paying £200.00. to get it back, just for being 30 mins late getting back to the meter.
No speed or CCTV cameras every 100mtrs.

Ahhh you say, but Poland is a 3rd world country.

Good, it means they are not so stupid as to have all the rules and regulations that you live under.

Ahhh you say, this will all change when we have a federal state of Europe, these rules and laws will be everywhere.

Not in my lifetime baby!!!!............bring it on, bring it on if you dare.

My village rules!!!! I cannot pronounce the name of it but I know it rules!!!!

NB. The Polish women are beautiful.
SeanBM 35 | 5,808  
5 Dec 2009 /  #18
Sell up, move to Poland

You've blown it now, they'll be flooding in here soon :)

Not in my lifetime baby!!!!............bring it on, bring it on if you dare.

LOL that made me laugh but unfortunately for some over there, it's all true.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
5 Dec 2009 /  #19
SeanBM

LOL that made me laugh but unfortunately for some over there, it's all true.

Lets tell a few more truths:-

Dentist for a filling......around £18.00.
Visit to Cardio Consultant (not doctor, consultant).....around £20-25.00 (private)
Meal in restaurant (local town), meal of the day, 3 course + coffee).....£2.90. (table service)
Land tax (community charge)......£44.50. per year..(Rubbish bin emptied (weekly) for £4.00. per month including any bags put out as extra)
Petrol, diesel....10p litr cheaper than UK
Beer........£1.00. half litre (5.6% proof)(bar)
Beer....... £0.60. half litre bottle (shop)
Spirit.......£1.40....(large vodka, free bottle of tonic water)
Mineral water.£0.40. (5ltr bottle)
Car insurance...£66.60. (1 year, 3rd party)
Train fare....£2.67.....(90km return fare)
Bus fare.....£0.40....(10km journey)

If you had no mortgage, you could live well here on £5-600 per month. The interest after tax on about £150,000.

I say, stuff the UK, I never made the mess so why should I pay to clear it up. Its not as if there is a quick solution, even a change of government is going to mean a lot of hardship for the working class who are barely managing now. If its so attractive for the millions they have let in then let them keep it, I have no wish to live there anymore.

I have just this minute heard Gordon Brown talking about climate change and needing to house the people whos land is threatened by rising sea levels, I guess thats another 10 million that will be heading for the UK.
OP espana 17 | 911  
5 Dec 2009 /  #20
I have a daughter here in Poland, what can I claim?,

i always thought that the childrens benefit was for british people only.
for exemple you or Wroclaw Boy , who have a kid abroad deserve more the money than poles.
british government should help the british people , that it ..

if a pole has a kid with an english citizen , they should have benefit too
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
5 Dec 2009 /  #21
espana
i always thought that the childrens benefit was for british people only.

No matter what contributions we have made in the past, we do not reside in the UK, therefore we are not entitled to any benefits whatsoever. If you are an asylum seeker, (who has never paid a penny into the system)you can have whatever you want.

These are not lies. The British goverment will deny this, but, this is what happens in the UK. This is the sociaqlist Labour government. I will defined as racist, I am not, I will be called politically incorrect, words to hide the wastage by the present government. Call me what you want, I am only relaying what the Bristish people have been saying for years.

I million people marched on Whitehall to protest about the war in Iraq. Blair, elected byt the people to serve them, totally ignored them and sent the troops. Democracy, is a joke in the UK, do as your told, not do as you think.

I love my country, the memories I have from childhood and teenage years are the best. What the hell happened to allow this bunch of morons to dictatae and destroy all the fine values that I believed in?.

Yes, I have been drinking vodka, yes, I am angry, Yes i loved my country, yes, I use the past tense, because, my love was in the past, I cannot accept the present and I fear for the future.

England, England, England!!!!.....wake up and stop this nonsense now.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Dec 2009 /  #22
Many good points made by Avalon. Many things that are changing in the world are being masked and packaged well. Look at the New Deal, it was presented as golden but a look at the actual content leads one to think otherwise. Many rich people are turning to 'charity' to justify their actions. I'm sorry but charity's nature should not be changed in the way that it is. We see Common Purpose doing the same. People like Bill Gates, Warren Buffet and bankers portraying themselves as ostensibly charitable. In effect, it's just a finger in a different pie and another outlet of society in which they can work through.

Benefits are the same. They are paid by those that shouldn't be contributing to that level. This reciprocal agreement is a sure-fire lure to EU folks to come and take advantage of it. A basic look sociological and demographic trends show that there are more and more single mothers. They will look for any support they can get, rather than go through the cumbersome aliment process. Procuring alimony can be an arduous process for those who see themselves as too busy. Again, many people are not aware that this is EU Law and I think the reaction wouldn't be too favourable if they did.

The people need to take their country back. We need to learn from films like America: From Freedom to Fascism by Aaron Russo (RIP). This tells the story of what we can do as citizens. Much of it centred on income tax and the IRS not finding a provision compelling Americans to pay, LOL.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
6 Dec 2009 /  #23
Seanus

Nobody minds, helping out genuine cases, but, the English government seems to have a proplem with this. They give to anybody and ask questions later. Can you see the authourites in Poland, doing this?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Dec 2009 /  #24
That's the big difference. In Poland, they don't want to encourage a proliferation of lame duck cases, those that could fend for themselves but take the easy option. It's important for teachers here to stay on top of things as I have little confidence in the Polish state stepping in to help. Maybe for health care but the range of benefits is seriously limited.

Poland has the potential to be much more of a 'means-tested' culture.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
6 Dec 2009 /  #25
Seanus

My partner is an English teacher. I find her knowledge of English abysmal, She has a masters degree and i have to correct her many times. I am a poor, simple, ignorant, builder, yet, I have to correct the work she does with her students, where am I going wrong?

By the way, I am drunk at this moment in time.
So forgive me the typos.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Dec 2009 /  #26
She might be one of those bad teachers then. There are those out there. I wonder if you are wurring your slurds ;) ;)

I still find paying for kids abroad weird. The pillars of the EU surely didn't envisage that but that's what we have.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,734  
6 Dec 2009 /  #27
I still find paying for kids abroad weird. The pillars of the EU surely didn't envisage that but that's what we have.

The problem is that the UK state could cut it out overnight by simply linking child benefit to school attendance - which has to be verified by the educational authorities. Easy for UK resident children, but very difficult for Polish resident children due to the much more autonomous nature of schooling here.
Avalon 4 | 1,068  
6 Dec 2009 /  #28
Seanus

She is an excellant teacher, many students want private lessons. I help, I do not charge, I believe in giving back, the friendship, relationship, that I have been given here has been phemnominal.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
6 Dec 2009 /  #29
Education authorities would have spotted this. People see the gaping flaws in things but are likely told to stand down and let the agenda fulfil itself. Without resistance, this state of affairs will be allowed to repeat itself again and again.

The problem with the reciprocal agreement is that certain states are far more likely to claim than others. It's hardly fair as Brits didn't learn Polish in schools and have far more limited prospects here as a result. Yet again, Britain loses out but I'm not blaming the Poles for that.

Avalon, why the mention of teaching on the benefits thread? Just curious. There are other threads if you wish to discuss it.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,734  
6 Dec 2009 /  #30
It's hardly fair as Brits don't learn Polish in schools

Hey hey Seanus, not true - there's both GCSE and Standard Grade Polish now! I think they're actually starting to recognise Polish as a good gateway language to Slavic languages instead of Russian in some schools now.

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