Sasha
27 Aug 2008
History / Russia tells teachers to lie to students about "Katyn" [139]
Hi brat!
So may I perceive that as your consent on that RA's soldiers died? If "yes" then there's nothing to argue further about since it was the only my issue on the initial text of this thread.
Nevertheless I noticed you painted the conflict as if it was all about bad russian bear and tiny innocent rec pospolita which is not true.
First and foremost it's good to know that Poland has never been so harmless towards its neighbours. At some sizable periods of its existence Poland competes with Russia for the title of empire in the East Europe and sometimes... Poland was about to once and for all win the game.
Here're GV's targets for the war:
Poland. Main goal is to restore Poland in its historical boundaries of Rech Pospolita in 1772 with establishing of control over Belorussia, Ukraine and Lithuania and dominating in Eastern Europe.
Excuse moi. Does it sound as a statement of sovereign and innocent country that doesn't bully anybody and doesn't claim to be an empire? :)
Russia. As a minimum: establishing control over Ukraine and Belorussia and their sovetization. As a maximum: sovetization of Poland and further of Germany then the World Revolution.
Doesn't sound friendly as well.
My purpose was to show you that nothing was white in the World. Historic "facts" is a kind of information you gotta be especially careful with since every time when you express your opinion on how things look like you take a great responsibility that may impact all the Humankind in the future. People have always been a trigger under the finger of politicians.
Ogorki
Hi brat!
If it is true that RA soldiers died - you have to ask yourself the questions. Why were they on Polish soil. Soveriegn - FREE soil. FREE SOIL.
So may I perceive that as your consent on that RA's soldiers died? If "yes" then there's nothing to argue further about since it was the only my issue on the initial text of this thread.
In 1920 RA soldiers invaded a soveriegn country - Poland. They wanted to take what was not theirs. They wanted to enslave - to take Europe after WW1. Throughout history Russia has tried to control Poland - becuause it was in the way - an inconvenience. Occasionally Poland would fight back - with affect. Russia would respond - with revenge. Poland was fighting for basic survival - against a huge 'Bully' neighbour.
Nevertheless I noticed you painted the conflict as if it was all about bad russian bear and tiny innocent rec pospolita which is not true.
First and foremost it's good to know that Poland has never been so harmless towards its neighbours. At some sizable periods of its existence Poland competes with Russia for the title of empire in the East Europe and sometimes... Poland was about to once and for all win the game.
Here're GV's targets for the war:
Poland. Main goal is to restore Poland in its historical boundaries of Rech Pospolita in 1772 with establishing of control over Belorussia, Ukraine and Lithuania and dominating in Eastern Europe.
Uzef Pilsudsky: Secluded in the boundaries of the end 16th century, cut off of Black and Baltic Seas, devoid of natural resources of South and South-East Russia could easily turn to the state of second-class country that couldn't seriously threat to a NEW independent Poland. In its turn Poland as the biggest and most powerfull of NEW countries might easily get the sphere of influence spreading from Finland to Caucasian Mountains.
Excuse moi. Does it sound as a statement of sovereign and innocent country that doesn't bully anybody and doesn't claim to be an empire? :)
Russia. As a minimum: establishing control over Ukraine and Belorussia and their sovetization. As a maximum: sovetization of Poland and further of Germany then the World Revolution.
Lenin: crashing polish army we're destroying that Versaillais peace that holds system of nowadays international affairs. If Poland was Soviet, Versaillais peace would be destructed and all international system would crashed as well.
Trozky: Lenin had a plan to enter Warsaw and help people to overthrow their political system in the name of Socialistic Ideals.
Trozky: Lenin had a plan to enter Warsaw and help people to overthrow their political system in the name of Socialistic Ideals.
Doesn't sound friendly as well.
My purpose was to show you that nothing was white in the World. Historic "facts" is a kind of information you gotta be especially careful with since every time when you express your opinion on how things look like you take a great responsibility that may impact all the Humankind in the future. People have always been a trigger under the finger of politicians.