News / Some Poles burning American flag [299]

Well, we had this all out in the US back in 1989-90 with the flag-burning law and the Supreme Court decision.

The Supreme Court found that a law banning flag burning, even of our own flag, in the US would be an infringement on our First Amendment rights to free speech.

However, the Supreme Court did not say that just because some idiots burn a flag, that the rest of us have to "listen" to what they are "saying". Seriously, it's so . . . done.

A flag is not "just" a flag to anyone with a decent respect for his country, which is why there is such complicated flag etiquette in all countries. This is precisely why flag-burning is done - because a country's flag is a potent representation of that country. However, at this point, people who have to resort to such an act to make a point only show their stupidity and say nothing about their own cause - its effectiveness has been blunted by a quarter-century of overuse, in the case of the American flag (show us something we haven't seen!).

Work / University professor salary in Poland? [16]

My father-in-law said that Polish professors used to receive bonuses from the government when they published papers, monographs, books, etc., and that the Polish profs he met at academic conferences said that this was a big help to their income - there's nothing like that in North America or Britain. However, he did say that that system of bonuses was under the "old" regime (pre-1989) and he didn't know if it was still how things were done.

Obviously, not anything we are going to act on tomorrow, but I appreciate the feedback and look forward to hearing what anyone else has to say!

Life / Most famous, respected Polish last names? [46]

Those lists were very interesting. My husband's family name, Lakowski, isn't on the long one (or the short one!), but that's no surprise as there aren't any known Lakowskis living in Poland any longer. One branch of the family moved to the U.S. in the 1880's or so, and the remainder were sent to concentration camps or shot in WWII as they were Catholic intellectuals and business owners, and none survived. The American branch is still around and there has been some contact between the Canadians and the Americans. My father-in-law says it's a totally different name from the common "Laskowski" and was armigerous; apparently some family members had copies of coats-of-arms but those are all lost now. I don't doubt him on the variation - my mother's family name is Schirmacher with an "i", very specific, NOT Schumacher with a "u", which is a numerous name in Germany. Relatives back in the Heidelberg area confirmed our suspicions that "Schirmacher" probably meant "umbrella-maker" - a relatively new name, perhaps early 18th C.

In countries that don't rely heavily on the "patronymic" last name, whatever the local equivalents of "Miller" and "Smith" are will almost always be among the top names. We had an interesting thing happen in the States during the 1stWW - anti-German sentiment became very pronounced in 1916-17, and German communities and people with obvious German last names were harrassed and worse. Most of these people considered themselves Americans first - what could they do to prove this? Well, many anglicized their last names, both to prove their "Americanness" and to avoid further persecution. So, people named, say, Mueller, Schmidt, or Fischer changed their names to Miller, Smith, or Fisher - the English equivalents. That's why "Miller" is even more popular in the U.S. than in the U.K.

P.S. I think the basketball player you're talking about is Dirk Nowitski, the NBA MVP? From Germany, but obviously has Polish heritage! (I'm from Dallas so I've heard aaaall about him!)

Work / University professor salary in Poland? [16]

Thanks moire

News / Censorship in Polish school programs [12]

At any rate, this was something that J Kaczynski wasn't willing to put up with:
spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,487037,00.html - KACZYNSKI OVERRULES MINISTER IN SYLLABUS ROW - Goethe and Dostoyevsky Escape Poland's Literary Cull

So that's the end of that.
I suppose Giertych does these things to keep his peeps happy, and then Kaczynski plays Punch to his Judy, like back in March when they had their little tiff?


I know . . . you should hear the lefties I know go on about how Fox News needs to be shut down! ;^)

News / Censorship in Polish school programs [12]

Interesting poll result, don't know the quality of the poll (always a problem). Of course, the reaction to the interview is just plain stupid, though perhaps wholly expected. LPR really needs to chill a little, but I guess that's not in their brief.

Polish press review - Government & Economy

EDUCATION: Education Ministry's Policies Widely Criticized by Public Opinion - Far right politician Roman Giertych's politics disqualify him as education minister, 61% of respondents in a poll by GfK Polonia said.

Giertych was also insulted by radio journalist soon after completing an interview at Radio Zet, which prompted his far-right League of Polish Families (LPR) party members to call for sanctions against the station. [Rzeczpospolita][Dziennik]

News / Censorship in Polish school programs [12]

According to [anorak/twitterings/174036.html] this source (please click, then scroll down to the bottom of the article):

"There was an immediate outcry in Poland and Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski in a rare attack of sanity, went on radio to announce that this may have been a joke but was in very poor taste. The classics, he insisted, will stay on the Polish school syllabus. Children will go on reading Goethe, Dostoyevsky, Kafka and Josef Conrad."

So it seems that Goethe, Dostoyevsky, Kafka, Conrad, and Gombrowicz aren't going off the syllabus. Status quo ante.

Life / Doing laundry in Poland [66]

I think the big difference in wash times comes about mostly because in the U.S. and Canada, the big majority of washing machines are "top loading" and have an agitator in the center of the tub. This allows the wash to be done much more quickly than in a "European-style" "front loading" machine, but it also uses a bit more electricity and a lot more water . . . :^( Front loading or "European" machines are starting to gain popularity, but they are often twice as much or more than our "regular" machines here - the prices are coming down, though, as domestic manufacturers start making them.

And you'd better have a matching big dryer because we also have (IMO) very idiotic bylaws in many cities and towns in the States that you cannot hang washing out behind your house, because it looks "poor" and "trashy" (these were often passed in the 1950s and '60's). Some of these are starting to be challenged now. But a whole generation (or two?) has grown up not knowing how to hang out laundry - I certainly don't, and wish I did . . .

Language / Good books about polish grammar? (online purchase) [19]

For an actual book - I took "Polish: An Essential Grammar" by Dana Bielec out of the local library. It is fascinating and thorough. After covering pronounciation, she goes through each part of speech extremely thoroughly, and then goes into sentence elements and structure. Dom Książki has this on their website, also her book "Basic Polish: A Grammar and Workbook", which I haven't seen but I would think is good, based on this book.

Life / Doing laundry in Poland [66]

I've seen my mother-in-law hang out laundry (in her late '70's!) and I can tell it's harder than it looks! - to get it done well, anyway.

I use Method washing liquid, which is very concentrated (and unscented), applying a little bit to any stains, using borax powder for color protection (I try not to use chlorine bleach). I'm very picky about separating colors. I put some "regular" white vinegar in the rinse water, especially with my husband's clothes - he perspires terribly and it makes a big difference in deodorizing! And I don't use fabric softener. I'll take a little static cling for my clothes just smelling like . . . clothes. But then I get migraines so I have to be vigilant about smells.

Cute pic!

News / The legal definition of Vodka in EU - Poland not happy [16]


LOL!!! (Although that must have been very awkward for you . . .)

Maybe that should be part of the EU's definition: a beverage distilled from etc. etc. with a high enough alcohol content that it will not freeze!

I just think it's kind of funny (in a sad way). The EU mandates uniform bananas, condoms, etc., but any old thing can be vodka? Give me a break.

News / Poland's Contribution to the E.U. [56]

Of course I'm viewing this as an American, but I think it's awesome that Poland is getting this discussion going at the EU summit. France and Germany always pout and flounce around when they don't get their way, 100%, right away, on any EU issues. Look at Giscard - supposed to be one of the great men of Europe, and instead of contributing to the discussion as a constitutional authority, he's just stomping around complaining that everyone wants to trash his beautiful darling constitution that he worked sooooo hard on. Ooooo, poor little Valery! Did Madison and Hamilton complain like that when the American constitutional convention started arguing and carving up the nicely written documents they'd provided? -Well, yes, they did, some, but they also got right into the arguments and hammered things out. I just don't understand how some countries think you can have something called a "union" but then just push basic decisions concerning governance of said union onto the other members and expect them to accept without taking their ideas about it. I think the EU needs a little more of what we Americans call "sh*t-disturbers"; the EU bigs want to pretend that everything is happy-happy sweet-sweet but it isn't, so why pretend? No *real* parliament has to act that way; they are free to get arguments out in the open and *resolve* them.

Frankly, I'm thinking that Poland (along with the Czechs) does not want, at the moment, exactly what they're asking for, but that perhaps their true goal is to get the big countries to the table to actually recognize the "little" countries as actual partners in the union, who have as much right to contribute to the writing of the new "constitution" or "treaty" or whatever as the "big" countries do, and perhaps force something more like a constitutional convention, rather than the rubber-stamp chin-wag that France and Germany seem to expect. THEN voting systems can be brought forward - whether majority, square-root, whatever. Just a suspicion but you can make an argument for it.

News / What can Poland do to maintain its Ethnic Integrity? [118]


Olito, I hear what you are saying. As an American, I am frustrated in a "big picture" sense that we cannot control our own border. But, on a personal level, I knew plenty of people who had been or were, at the time I knew them, illegally in the country from Mexico. They weren't there because they each had an evil, diabolical plan to change the character of the United States. They were there because the positives of being in the U.S. outweighed the negatives of their illegal situation, because the economic situation of their town back in Mexico was just too bad. --What really makes me angry is that it always seems to be reduced to the immigrants vs. the United States govt (and anonymous angry white people), when the problem really seems to be the Mexican oligarchy using the U.S. as a pressure outlet so that they can avoid having to make painful decisions and structural changes. BUT that's just my opinion . . .


This is very true. Especially if you don't understand the language very well, or even at all. And especially if the "locals" are not very niceto outsiders to begin with.

Of course, Poland's an interesting country b/c it was very mixed ethnically until the end of WWII - the current ethnic situation is an historical anomaly.

P.S. James, you are an idiot and every time you "open your mouth" you simply confirm this. FYI.

P.P.S. I'm pro-mexican-food, too! :^)

News / your PM and President the two twins.... [24]


Well, that's great . . . see, the reason I can tell the twins apart is that my husband looks like Jarosław but NOT Lech, only he has a bigger chin, more oval face and is a little taller. And I think my husband's super-cute! We all have our own biases I suppose.


Dude, what planet are you from? Do you actually know any Poles? You say you live in Warsaw, but, come on . . .

Travel / Polish Airports and Air industry are pathetic [32]

No way that Lot could be worse than United or US Airways. I mean - how often do you hear of a Lot crash? :^S

Speaking of bad airports - LaGuardia (New York) used to be a total dump. JFK wasn't much better. Flying into Newark instead was like flying into a palace, comparatively. And Logan (Boston) in the '80's? Yech. We have some real prize-winners in the States. I'm sure Polish airports are just now starting to get to where they need to be in the post-communist era, or making their plans.


I'll second that, getting delayed in Pittsburgh is a nightmare now because each concourse is actually a real mall (it's called the "Airmall") - the "shopping mall mentality" taken to its logical extreme. Don't do it, Poland! If you must - a newsagent, bookseller, maybe a tourist gift stand and absolutely a cafe with yummy, affordable food but NOTHING ELSE!!!

News / GERMAN NEWSPAPER DEFENDS POLAND, KACZYNSKIS - BRAVO GERMANS! [99]

It looks like Germany and Poland have agreed on a treaty blueprint . . . not on the new treaty per se . . . slight difference. In another report I saw, Presidents Sarkozy and Adamkus were very involved and influential in the Merkel-Kaczyński meetings.

eubusiness.com/news_live/1182553205.1 - EU strikes deal with Poland on treaty: Lithuania

22 June 2007, 23:00 CET

(BRUSSELS) - The European Union has reached agreement with Poland on a blueprint for a new treaty to replace the failed constitution, a spokesman for the Lithuanian delegation said at an EU summit here.

"The negotiations were successful," spokesman Jurgita Apanaviciute told AFP.

A Polish diplomat also said there were "good signs" of a possible compromise deal between Poland and its 26 EU partners over Warsaw's objections to the voting system in the proposed treaty.

News / GERMAN NEWSPAPER DEFENDS POLAND, KACZYNSKIS - BRAVO GERMANS! [99]

Braut (may I call you that?), here's a commentary from Polish Radio's English-language service:

polskieradio.pl/zagranica/gb/dokument.aspx?iid=54354 Weekly Commentary

Typical Polish good sense and humor. I especially liked the last paragraph:

"However, we shouldn’t listen just to our own arguments. Being tough doesn’t necessarily mean being stubborn. There is some space for compromise, no doubt about that. No matter if we win or lose the battle, we have to come across as a state fighting for our victory rather than for someone else’s defeat. There is a joke about a merchant saying that for him it’s not enough to be doing well; he wanted to be the only one winning and to see all the others lose. Not a good example to follow."

Also:
"By the way, I would love to know who on earth invented calling a new treaty ‘the European Constitution’. Perhaps someone just wanted the whole project to lose for it was impossible to believe that Britons would support any document called this way. But they didn’t have to look far because the French and the Dutch took care of that."

Heh, heh. :^)

News / GERMAN NEWSPAPER DEFENDS POLAND, KACZYNSKIS - BRAVO GERMANS! [99]


But that's exactly the opposite of what the writer is saying. He's saying, we need to fight for this principle ("a state fighting for our victory") and not for the sake of fighting, being stubborn Poles ("rather than for someone else’s defeat" or what you might say "deny the Germans a success" from your point of view). Which is why compromise is possible and will come in the end.

The Poles and the Germans both seem to be fighting /negotiating for advantage AND principle - what is wrong with that?

News / GERMAN NEWSPAPER DEFENDS POLAND, KACZYNSKIS - BRAVO GERMANS! [99]


I understand that that is your perception. I suppose time will tell - i.e., once the K's are out of office and so on.

News / Why do Poland block the European Constitution? [68]

We Yanks had military responsibility for one sector of Germany after the war, but that does not correlate to fiscal responsibility or immediate investment.

Look, here is a fascinating page on germany.info/relaunch/culture/history/marshall.html - the Marshall Plan from the German Embassy in the U.S. The Marshall Plan was not exactly what some people think it was, but on the other hand it did a hell of a lot more than apparently some other people are willing to give it credit for. (And got the proto-form of the EU going, God help us - ;^) )

News / Poland's Contribution to the E.U. [56]

Peter, this is just my impression as an outsider following the news, but it seems to me that the Merkel govt acts in better faith than the Schroeder govt did - I can totally believe that Gerhard and his boys wanted to dominate everyone on the continent, but Merkel & co seem to be really trying to work & negotiate while, *of course*, getting the best deal possible for Germany (which any sensible govt should). This is also my opinion on the K's - they are making a lot of noise and stirring up stuff, not in bad faith but because they want to bring up some things that they believe are important to Poland and they want to get the best deal possible for Poland - BUT they are still willing to work & negotiate. The SLD, perhaps also the PO, would not be acting that way if they were in power - for some that would be a relief, but I don't think that would be doing Poland any favors.

Of course there are other perennial issues but I am just considering the current fracas. Japan and China have a certain am't of bilateral relations despite the Manchuria/Rape of Nanking business that continues to this day (just check out the Japanese and Chinese news of the last week).

History / Jewish belongings [118]


I would recommend looking up Jewish sites and, if possible, making contacts with Jewish folks in Poland. In my initial research into things Polish, I've found two Jewish sites that look good. One is jewish.org.pl, though it's in Polish only (several links to it note it as English/Polish bilingual, but clearly it isn't). All their stuff looks really interesting though - for example, they have a big story up already on the cornerstone laying for the Museum of the History of Polish Jews that took place in Warsaw today.

Also, the Polish Jews Forum looks like it might be helpful - it is definitely in English and Polish! However, the forum part itself looks like it's only in Polish. :^( Still, you might be able to get some information there.

Unfortunately (until one knows Polish much better, anyway!), most Polish-Jewish websites seem to be Polish only.

Language / Kasia and Zosia pronounce [17]


So true! Whenever I try to say the names of Polish historical figures (or current people) whose names end in "-sław", my husband ALWAYS says, "No, no no no!" Then, depending on my error, he reminds me that there's no schwa and no "sh" sound in that syllable. I can make either error with that syllable, depending on the first part of the name I'll say "suhwav" ("uh"=schwa) or "schwav". Can't get just "swav" to come out!

I'm sllllooowwwly getting better . . .

USA, Canada / Getting my Polish fiance into the US [16]

Let me be honest with you: Immigrating legally to the U.S. is a big pain in the behind. It's an even bigger pain - as you've found - when trying to decide between the fiance and spouse visas at the time of your marriage if you are getting married in the applicant's country, because U.S. Immigration does not seem to foresee this situation! Arrrghh! I was so glad when we got married that I went the other way to Canada; Canada has its own paperwork problems but you generally do not need a lawyer and I was able to live with my husband while they processed my residency request (this is not available to citizens of all countries, however).

My husband and I did meet through an online matching service, and on the general boards there was a good bit of talk about "should I emigrate there/should they immigrate here?" One book that I've heard is very helpful for fiance/marriage visas is this one: Fiancé & Marriage Visas: A Couple's Guide to U.S. Immigration, from Nolo Press, a publisher of legal advice books for "normal" people.

I would also look and see about finding any online support groups if possible. I belonged to a Yahoo group for married immigrants to Canada, and it was incredibly helpful, both technically and for "support". There's also one group I've heard of, American Families United, I don't know how helpful they'd be to you but you could see.

The most important thing is to have a good lawyer who you trust. If you're not sure, you can always check him out through AILA. If you are sure, then great! You're on your way. Ask your attorney if you can get a fiancee visa even though the ceremony is taking place in Poland. If worse comes to worse, you could always schedule a civil ceremony in the U.S. to satisfy Immigration & to put on paperwork - I'm assuming you're having a church ceremony in Poland, but that is an assumption on my part! - And don't have a "second" ceremony in the U.S. without an absolute OK from a good lawyer!!! Worst-case scenario would be getting a spouse visa and your bride possibly having to remain in Poland for a few months, even until the New Year. BUT, considering how unpleasant and expensive it is to take shortcuts and do it the "wrong" way - with any immigration authority but especially in the U.S. - those few months WILL be worth it, believe me.

Um, I'd also check the U.S. Embassy in Warsaw's website, sometimes the embassies have helpful info, sometimes not.

Whatever happens, congratulations and best wishes to you both!

Love / Dating a Polish man - is he old-fashioned or not interested?! [19]

Also - is he a serious Catholic? My husband is quite shy, and old-fashioned, and a serious Catholic (as am I), so he was very hesitant to initiate any physical behavior. I just sat back and let him get comfortable with me, and all things came along in good time . . .

Hope it goes well! (Although he should have asked before bringing the guys . . . sounds good otherwise!)


Agree.

But do it in a way so you can stay friends!


Man and woman - the eternal dance! :^)

Language / Good books about polish grammar? (online purchase) [19]

Oooooh, Books-a-Million! I forgot they have a website! Thanks!!!

Love / Dating a Polish man - is he old-fashioned or not interested?! [19]

I'd probably lean toward the give-him-a-little-more-time side, check out the situation further (maybe he's got a big project at work? one of his mates has a personal problem and won't listen to reason? sometimes there are reasons guys - and girls - cool in the early stages that have nothing to do with the other person), see if things get better. Maybe another couple months? You should know by then.

Oh! The not-knowing! I think that was the hardest part of being single. What does he really think? That I'm pretty? Ugly? Smart? Dim? Sexy? Unappealing? That he likes me? That he's not sure what he thinks? (The truth: Most likely he's thinking about sports results.) We women psych ourselves out far too much with that. In any culture!

Besides, after marriage, you'll know all too well what he really thinks.

(Just kidding! Well, mostly. ;^) )

History / Jewish belongings [118]


Well, good luck with your search! I'm glad you found my post - I was afraid it had gotten lost among all the "discussion" here! :^)

Love / She said she does not want to in any relation now. [30]

Here's another hug for you.

Maybe you should get some guy friends together and go some place within walking distance of your home for some (not TOO many!) alcoholic beverages and "guy time"? That might be nice, get your mind off it.