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Russia tells teachers to lie to students about "Katyn"


ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #61
Could You tell me your address Celinski? I will buy You a standard Russian history textbook and will send it to You by DHL at the expense of our company. Sure enough it will be provided with translation on English.
irishdeano 5 | 304  
27 Aug 2008 /  #62
hmmm what my Ex polish GF told me that they were taught the germans carried it out. then i also learnt that the russian army told the ukrainian soliders to leave and then shot the polish soliders. i think people who are saying she and other polish should let this go is terrible, Its history that should be told the way it happened. its lies that would start another war the truth would be better. for instance most protestant schools do not teach the truth about William of orange. they dont know that william of orange was from holland that is army was a catholic french and spanish army and was sent by the pope to kill King james king of england.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
27 Aug 2008 /  #63
Russian history textbook

lol this post is about teaching twistd versions of history.

I will buy You a standard Russian history textbook

What version will it have the German's did it, or new and improved we did it because "Stalin was an efficient leader, not a murderer. The killing of Polish officers in Katyn was a well-deserved revenge," will be the new official historical theory taught in Russian schools."

History is the truth, not some fairy tale that you can alter.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #64
What version will it have the German's did it, or new and improved we did it because "Stalin was an efficient leader, not a murderer. The killing of Polish officers in Katyn was a well-deserved revenge," will be the new official historical theory taught in Russian schools."

I repeat once again. Stop brandish your Katyn as a dirty rag. Nobody is interested to see your bleed wounds through the holes on your clothers.
jkn005 1 | 127  
27 Aug 2008 /  #65
I don't know if you find the term 'Jap's' offensive or not, if you do i'm sorry its just what the short version of 'japanese' is in the UK. Sometimes even they are referred to as 'Nips' i.e. the 'Nipon Army' or 'SUper Nipon' football team. I was always told when i was younger the term 'nip' was offensive however the Japs seem to use it themselves???

Depends on who you ask. For me not really. But for many it was term used by the allies to demean the Japanese in the time of war. Similar to krauts I guess. To be honest I prefer Japs to yellow or chinks. If your talking to Japanese however I wouldn't call them that. They have a real thing with respect, whether it's them giving or receiving. So you might **** them off, but Japanese being the way they are wouldn't actually let you know it.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
27 Aug 2008 /  #66
your Katyn as a dirty rag.

It's not a "dirty rag"? I must say it is rather odd that now Russia admits to this murder. Least they simply show respect, make amnends, let the victims families heal. That would be to human though, better to start a new round of bs.

My message is simple, take responsability, tell the truth and make amnends.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #67
tell the truth and make amnends

The truth is that they were killed, it's enough. I hardly can imagine that 20000 poles could simply pick open their occiputs, of course they were killed...but nothing more! Just keep silent and mourn over them.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
27 Aug 2008 /  #68
Just keep silent and mourn over them.

Thats right we can't talk about it. lol What a neat little package for Soviets, sorry this is no longer the case. Sooner or later Russia will learn that all have rights and they cannot pick and choose what is spoken of.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #69
Sooner or later Russia will learn that all have rights

Of course you have rights, but in the same time you don't have means. C'mon, isn't it clear? All those self-satisfied countries (France, England, Germany) don't have even a slight interest on your past tragedies?
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
27 Aug 2008 /  #70
lol this post is about teaching twistd versions of history.

lol you already know one twisted version. why not learn another one?

"Stalin was an efficient leader, not a murderer.

That fact that he was a murderer doesn't make out of him inefficient leader.

The killing of Polish officers in Katyn was a well-deserved revenge,

You should agree. This version works pretty well for people... not just for Russian, but for people, for everybody. People don't necessarilly need to know the truth, they're ok with believing in things they want to believe in. You and many other guys here are only the best proof for that. You and people like you simply flatter yourself with the idea of that most of Russians are semi-mongolian retards who don't know how to think and don't have their own opinion... they are at any time manipulated by their own GV. Perhaps that's true. But you're absolutely the same and you merely don't want to realize it.

Back to your sentence... If Russia right now attacked Poland and some Polish soldiers died in captivity, McCoy-like people would be in a first row among people who would be eager to shoot Russian officers and you celinski would then say "war is a war", "nothing wrong with that", "russians are agressor".

The Pole-instinct and revenge drive you celinski, nothing more. It's not about common sense. If you were Russian, you would vehemently prove that all Poles are bastards. That's not a constructive position.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #71
If you were Russian, you would vehemently prove that all Poles are bastards

Isn't it true? Personally, I think they are!

They are trying to represent that Katyn is Russian deed, but I am saying them - "That is German murderous act, so Brat should bee called to account!"
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
27 Aug 2008 /  #72
Isn't it true? Personally, I think they are!

Kostia... c'mon we're both know you're merely trying to bring them on by this phrase.
ski 7 | 140  
27 Aug 2008 /  #73
In my opinion Katyń is more about true than revange or money. Some people feel humalitaded when they listen to Russian version of history.

anny way, how do you see future of Poland and Russia and our neughbourhood
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
27 Aug 2008 /  #74
c'mon we're both know you're merely trying to bring them on by this phrase.

Do we need it? They will always hate both of us, so what a reason to be kind with them?
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
27 Aug 2008 /  #75
Do we need it?

Need what? Bring them on? I wouldn't make it my primary ine of behaviour like you did. Be kind? Are there any reason to be unkind?

They will always hate both of us

Who they? All Poles? That's none of true. Being kind is not vain if it keeps anybody's attitude towards you similar to yours.

how do you see future of Poland and Russia and our neughbourhood

God knows! That will only depend on our politicians (read "on the ones who wash our brains")...
Borrka 37 | 594  
27 Aug 2008 /  #76
Sasha are you a Rabbi by any chance ?
Your posting sounds like a mistical verse of Torah.
The real world is not that complicated and don't believe when somebody tells you the earth is flat.
It's not.

It's a common demand for historical true - be it Holocaust, be it Katyn or Holodomor.
No need for splitting hairs, no need for twisted logic.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
27 Aug 2008 /  #77
Sasha are you a Rabbi by any chance ?

Taki sho Vi spGashivaete?!
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
27 Aug 2008 /  #78
They will always hate both of us, so what a reason to be kind with them?

Hate is a strange word Constantine. When we are discussing historical truth I have a low tolerance for ignorance. This does not mean I hate you or anyone else for that matter.

I do "hate" when your goverment lie's to you or your children and sets an example that by twisting and down playing the truth, it makes everything acceptable. What happened to Poland's people at the hands of "Katyn" or "Siberia" on the orders of a brutal dictator should never be ignored, downplayed or forgotten. This history should be a lesson in responsability, accountability and what can happen when evil takes power.
Ogorki - | 114  
27 Aug 2008 /  #79
So may I perceive that as your consent on that RA's soldiers died? If "yes" then there's nothing to argue further about since it was the only my issue on the initial text of this thread.

No - I said "IF" - do you understand?

If "yes" then there's nothing to argue further about since it was the only my issue on the initial text of this thread.

You can't get out of this so easily. You started this issue - now finish.
Finish by answering my question.

Poland. Main goal is to restore Poland in its historical boundaries of Rech Pospolita in 1772

I was talking about 1920 - when Poland was very poor and harmless. The rest of Europe was exhausted after WW1. Russia was not provoked. She simply saw oportunity to take Europe but underestimated Polands defense.

Excuse moi. Does it sound as a statement of sovereign and innocent country that doesn't bully anybody and doesn't claim to be an empire? :)

Thank you for admitting that Russia never wants Poland to become powerful and have ambition - and would prefer her neigbour under her foot like all the others.

Sounds familiar?
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
27 Aug 2008 /  #80
I was talking about 1920 - when Poland was very poor and harmless

Seems like you totally misunderstood me. So was I. The goals I listed are the goals of Poland at those time showing their offensive style.
Crow 160 | 10,261  
29 Aug 2008 /  #81
Russia tells teachers to lie to students about "Katyn"

if this is truth its not nice

Russians can do it bater. Honest approach can heal Polish wound and open possibilites for future mutual understandings
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
29 Aug 2008 /  #82
Russians can do it bater. Honest approach can heal Polish wound and open possibilites for future mutual understandings

Thank you so much Crow, by the way I love your new picture.
Crow 160 | 10,261  
29 Aug 2008 /  #83
truth must be said. No more, no less then that

but in case with my new picture

actualy, its me who should thank you

Your wings on avatar and balanced attitude here on forum inspired me

so, thank You
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #84
I have to question how it affects Russian children if/when they read articles about the lies in their text books?

"Josef Stalin acted rationally in killing millions, claims Russian textbook"
Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin claims he acted "rationally" in executing and imprisoning millions of people in the Gulags, a Russian school book claims

Millions were shot, exiled to Siberia or died of starvation after their land and homes were taken to fulfil Stalin's vision of massive "factory farms" in the 1920s, while in the 1930s anyone who was a threat was executed or exiled to Gulag labour camps in Siberia.

Historians believe up to 20 million people died as a result of his actions, many times more than were killed under Hitler's Nazi regime in Germany.

The manual says: "He acted entirely rationally - as the guardian of a system, as a consistent support of reshaping the country into an industrialised state."

telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/2672717/Josef-Stalin-acted-rationally-in-killing-millions-claims-Russian-textbook.html
Borrka 37 | 594  
3 Sep 2008 /  #85
Oh how I looove hypocrisy of our Russian friends !

They cry a river when Estonia removes some ugly monument to the Soviet occupants.
Every year thousands of toothless babuskhas and drunken vets are cheering nuclear czar-pushkas on the Red Square in memory of the ww2 soldiers.

Their TV program is filled with boring ww2 movies, nevertheless they are trying to teach us the lesson:
don't look back in the past , think of your future.
Shut up, forget your Katyn etc.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #86
"That is German murderous act, so Brat should bee called to account!"

If all else fails blame the German's.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
3 Sep 2008 /  #87
Oh how I looove hypocrisy of our Russian friends !
They cry a river when Estonia removes some ugly monument to the Soviet occupants.

Oh dear Borrka I might shot you if I didn't love you so much, so:

1. Don't touch Soviet war monuments, because they are sacred
2. Shut up, forget about your Katyn, because it is so boring
3. Let's talk about some other events in Polish history
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #88
Shut up, forget about your Katyn, because it is so boring

How sad that this is "boring" you, but the truth is out now how will you explaine to your children why you lie to them?
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
3 Sep 2008 /  #89
I have to question how it affects Russian children if/when they read articles about the lies in their text books?

You better worry about Polish kids being bullsh!tted since childhood (well... you don't have to worry as you live in the US and from what I learnt about you don't give a sh!t about Poles). As for Russians I would say recent generations don't have any delusion on Stalin's personality. There're lots of programs on Russian TV that debunk myths on his "heroism".
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
3 Sep 2008 /  #90
w will you explaine to your children why you lie to them?

I hardly can imagine my children asking me "daddy, daddy, please tell me about Katyn, why shouldn't you tell us a truth?"

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