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Russia tells teachers to lie to students about "Katyn"


OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #91
from what I learnt about you don't give a sh!t about Poles

when all else fails. lol isn't this what Stalin told all of Poland about the Polish that could not return. Stasha, they know the truth now so please give it up.

why shouldn't you tell us a truth?"

Is there a new one I'm not aware of?
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
3 Sep 2008 /  #92
ConstantineK:
why shouldn't you tell us a truth?"
Is there a new one I'm not aware of?

Oh please celinski, don't take it as insult, nobody really care about Katyn, because it was only one small episode in repressions of the Stalin's epoch. Do you hear me? O-n-e s-m-a-l-l e-p-i-s-o-d-e !!! There was millions and millions of Russians who had vanished in the same time. I can admit that it is a sharp point for Poles, but of course not for Russians. Here is a point where Stalin was absolutely right saying that millions of dead are just a statistic. Just compare 20000 of Poles with millions of Russians....
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
3 Sep 2008 /  #93
Stasha

I'm not Stanislava or Stanislav. I'm Alexander if this works better for you.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #94
Just compare 20000 of Poles with millions of Russians....

I was not aware Poles tied millions of unarmed Russians hands behind their backs and shot them in cold blood in the head?

I'm Alexander

Much better. Do you mind if I call you Alex. :)

I can admit that it is a sharp point for Poles, but of course not for Russians.

Are we in "Russian Forums" I thought I was in "POLISH FORUMS"?
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
3 Sep 2008 /  #95
I was not aware Poles tied millions of unarmed Russians hands behind their backs and shot them in cold blood in the head?

Let's try to digress from Russian or Poles nations, lets try to look on it impartial. If you want to ask my opinion on this theme as abstract atrocity, it would be one thing, but if you want to force me to sprinkle my head with ash and stand on my knees, it would be another....
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
3 Sep 2008 /  #96
abstract atrocity

Look at it whatever way you need to. The fact that Russia still lies to the Country and think so little of the message they teach a gift from God, "Children" they are teaching their children from a goverment level in order to feel good about yourself it's OK to lie. From the Russian's in here I see the adults go along with this teaching method. When will the Russian citizens demand a higher standards of the powers that lie to a nation let alone their own people?
irishdeano 5 | 304  
7 Sep 2008 /  #97
i find the katyan an interesting subject and i would like to learn alot more about it.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #98
U have to understand the prevailing climate of the times tho, Celinski. Were the clearing up of Katyn to have been made a matter of top priority, then the shape of the modern world would be very different. The point is, appeasement was extended to Soviet Russia. Roosevelt and Churchill acquiesced to Russia at Teheran, largely wanting to avoid a major conflict with Stalin. The finger can be pointed at ur government then, and mine.

However, it is distasteful for the Russians to teach lies. Stalin was evasive when confronted by Anders and Sikorski. They were at a banquet, sth that should be for friends and not enemies, when Stalin ducked and dodged pressing questions.

U shouldn't be surprised Celinski, they are politicians and fanatics. Why is it over 65 years ago that we are hearing about this through Wajda and others? This is, for me, more disappointing if u accept that lying is innate to politics.
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699  
7 Sep 2008 /  #99
Russia is adding insult to injury once more with the verdict out how will they explaine this to the children in the future?

this is what I was talking about with everyones version of history being different.

its sad that people dont owe up to their part in it..makes them look less trust
worthy in the future, and prob half the population feel remorse while the other
half is all for the teaching of this.. if I was a student and was lied to, it would
most definately turn me against my education/govt.. what does this show them?

we all know govts lie, but when it becomes a part of your education, even as
a Parent, how does this reflect on the students? so its teaching them its ok
to kill someone and lie about it,, yep and then in the future you can lie to the
world and no one would be the wiser..

disgusting.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
7 Sep 2008 /  #100
The fact that Russia still lies to the Country and think

The fact is that you know nothing about russian life, so you know nothing about coverage of Stalin's persecutions in Russia. You should be silent if you do not want to look stupid.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #101
And Putin wanted to commemorate the memory of Stalin, ConstantineK, why is that now?

He killed his own men. Or was it a Georgian killing Russians? U tell me
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
7 Sep 2008 /  #102
And Putin wanted to commemorate the memory of Stalin, ConstantineK, why is that now?

No! Where did you find this crap? Russian TV is full of documentaries and films about Stalins persecutions

He killed his own men. Or was it a Georgian killing Russians?

Do you have any evidences of such accusations?
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #103
aw2w.blogspot.com/2007/08/putin-rehabilitates-stalin.html
reason.com/news/show/122319.html
informationclearinghouse.info/article18821.htm

In the last of these, Kasparov exposes Putin. He is a hero and rightfully so.

How can u POSSIBLY deny that Stalin killed his own officers and countrymen? If u seriously believe this, this just goes to show the true extent of ur denial.

Get a grip man. Stalin was heavily assisted to victory by the Polish AK plus the Allies. Without Polish assistance, the Red Army would have fallen to Hitler.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
7 Sep 2008 /  #104
In the last of these, Kasparov exposes Putin. He is a hero and rightfully so.

Who? Kasparov? He is aged idiot!

Without Polish assistance, the Red Army would have fallen to Hitler.

Ha-ha
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #105
Then why did Stalin invite Anders and Sikorski to Moscow for talks? No, not to discuss toothpaste as Bush did, but to seek Polish assistance. The Poles were rugged fighters who fought with pride and passion. They were a strategic asset to Stalin and he knew it.

The Nazis were a far more effective killing machine than the Red Army. Drop ur pride, Stalin reached out for help. I don't recall Hitler doing that.

Kasparov is a logician, mathematician, genius chess player and very articulate spokesman. U seem to be afraid as he is sb who can expose the true nature of the Russian state! Don't get me wrong, I'm no enemy of Russia, but I'm inclined to believe Kasparov.
ConstantineK 26 | 1,259  
7 Sep 2008 /  #106
Kasparov is a logician, mathematician, genius chess player and very articulate spokesman.

And US paid out Jew....

Drop ur pride, Stalin reached out for help. I don't recall Hitler doing that.

Of course he had needed poles on RA side, but only as a symbol and may be as sherpas on the Polish territory. Anyway their role hadn't been crucial
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #107
Get a grip man. Stalin was heavily assisted to victory by the Polish AK plus the Allies. Without Polish assistance, the Red Army would have fallen to Hitler.

Although activity of the Polish underground helped them much, holding German transports much longer or even forcing to travel avoiding Polish territory, this is too much to write that without their assistance the Soviet would fall to Hitler. American assistance was much more helpful.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #108
The Americans came in on the other side lesser, they moved from the north of France. U should watch Kompania Bracia. There's another good film about American involvement, it's on the tip of my tongue. About a certain US regiment, damn, what was the name?

The Russians were worried that Polish resistance would be overcome, putting the Nazis within 400 miles of Moscow. The Poles kept them to 600 for a long time.
Wahldo  
7 Sep 2008 /  #109
Kasparov is a logician, mathematician, genius chess player and very articulate spokesman.

Yes he would have been an able statesman. He's not a hoodlum.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #110
He would've been forced out tho. He may yet be assassinated for being a pest.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #111
The Americans came in on the other side lesser, they moved from the north of France.

Exactly, Hitler could not concentrate on eastern front. One cannot underestimate influence of American supplies to the SU.

Kasparov is bad-mouthed and I doubt he has something to offer himself, unless this is euro-socialism. Bukovski on other hand is a class act. Still, both of them are politically irrelevant in Russia.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #112
Hmm...only because they are suppressed. Kasparov has been arrested, as was a member of his party, detained for 46 days. Kasparov had better watch tho, Russians have spy networks and could be following his movements. If I were him, I'd be careful. He is telling us what we all know, that Russia is a police state who can squash opposition. He will achieve no reform so I'd return to family life if I were him and be remembered as a super talent on the chess board
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #113
Hmm...only because they are suppressed.

However majority of Russians seems to like them being politically suppressed. This is old dilemma of democracy, whether to respect decision of majority rejecting democracy.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #114
That's because they've been conditioned to do so. States like Russia tend to inculcate such behaviour in their citizens. If freedom of speech was so cherished, they wouldn't be so quick to curtail it. Blind allegiance to the state is a very unthoughtful position.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #115
Monarchies in Europe were somehow abolished. They also conditioned people to serve their purposes.

Today's political establishment in Europe also conditioning people to accept their doubtful version democracy and Swiss model is never ever mentioned in schools. We don't have the right to interfere in internal affairs of this country, we can just comment and discuss.
shopgirl 6 | 928  
7 Sep 2008 /  #116
That's because they've been conditioned to do so. States like Russia tend to inculcate such behaviour in their citizens. If freedom of speech was so cherished, they wouldn't be so quick to curtail it. Blind allegiance to the state is a very unthoughtful position.

Try to tell a Russian or a Chinese that!
Its like trying to tell someone in a cult "Hey! You're in a cult!"

Oh well, maybe we are all caught up in a kind of "matrix".
Oh dear lord, now I sound like Crow.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #117
A bit like the Prime Directive in Star Trek:TNG, right lesser? I know u watch it

Yeah shopgirl, denial is rampant in their cultures
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #118
A bit like the Prime Directive in Star Trek:TNG, right lesser? I know u watch it

I must disappoint you, I never watched Star Trek. :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Sep 2008 /  #119
But u mentioned the Borg and assimilation and used it by means of analogy
lesser 4 | 1,311  
7 Sep 2008 /  #120
You confuse me with somebody else, I don't even know who is Borg. :)

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