Davey 13 | 388 22 Jan 2008 / #1Okay why is it possible to say 'nie ma nic' instead of 'nie ma niczego'? How will I know which to use???Thanks
osiol 55 | 3,921 22 Jan 2008 / #2'nie ma niczego'I think this 'niczego' has to qualify a noun, but I am a donkey / beginner.
OP Davey 13 | 388 22 Jan 2008 / #3haha I absoloutely despise the genitive case, it's really the only one which has given me problems
osiol 55 | 3,921 22 Jan 2008 / #4I absoloutely despise the genitive caseI've been feeling a bit better about it since I've had a name to put to it.I'm still not entirely sure what it is though. It seems to appear in all sorts of odd places.I am strangely drawn to the -ego ending, and I don't know why.
Seanus 15 | 19,674 22 Jan 2008 / #5Grammatically correct is nie ma niczego as niczego is the genitive case of nic. But nie ma nic is used more in everyday language
osiol 55 | 3,921 22 Jan 2008 / #6Upon further questioning, my 'teacher' (who I had distracted from his enjoying facebook dot com) made things even more confusing. Is what I said above okay, or should I edit it down to a humble sigh?
OP Davey 13 | 388 22 Jan 2008 / #7Grammatically correct is nie ma niczego as niczego is the genitive case of nic. But nie ma nic is used more in everyday languageOkay that's a relief, I wanted to make sure I wasn't creating my own grammar rules=P i noticed 'nie ma nic' is used a lot more often though than 'niczego'
Seanus 15 | 19,674 22 Jan 2008 / #8I had the same with nie ma nikt and nie ma nikogo. It's like od Sean and od Seana. Od Seana is grammatically correct but the former is also acceptable. Cases come through instinct quite often. I don't know them inside out, that's 4 sure. Mistakes galore.
plk123 8 | 4,142 22 Jan 2008 / #9Cases come through instinct quite often.yeah, i don't see how you guys do it. kudos for sure, for ever trying.and i'd say about interchangable.. there may be a few cases where one just sounds "better" then the other though.
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #10Niczego comes from the Russian word pronounced nichivo, it has a strong slavonic rout. There is a very useful expression in Polish 'nie mam nic przeciwko temu', I have nothing against it (or that), which is used quite a lot.
z_darius 14 | 3,965 23 Jan 2008 / #11Niczego comes from the Russian word pronounced nichivono, it doesn't. It is a case form of "nic".Also, it is pronounced "nich'yevo"it has a strong slavonic routit may, but the word has IE roots, not just Slavonic.compare:nothingnichtsnada
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #12Also, it is pronounced "nich'yevo"No, it is pronounced nichivO with the stress falling on the big final O! It is not nich'yevo there is certainly no 'y' at all in the word. Stress and pronunciation of Russian is difficult, especially for the Poles who are used to the stress falling on the same spot in each word.
RJ_cdn - | 267 23 Jan 2008 / #13No, it is pronounced nichivOSorry Michal, but you are wrong. Darius's pronunciation is correct.Nichevo (not nichivo) or in Russian Ничево
z_darius 14 | 3,965 23 Jan 2008 / #14it is pronounced nichivOIt's not.I can't see how you can transcribe ничево into nichivOThe apostrophy in my post meant the softening of the "ch", not a syllable stress.Poles who are used to the stress falling on the same spot in each word.That statement is not true.
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #15НичевоYes, this is right. I can not write in Russian. Well, I probably could if I knew how to change the fonts to Russian. The dictionary word is nichtO (the stress falls on the big final O) from which we derive the genitive nicheevO. There is no other possible variety of either spelling or pronunciation. As I say, Russian phonetics is very interesting and is much more complicated than Polish, which is much more uniform in this regard. There is no je sound in it at all. Sadly, you will simply have to accept my word for it.
RJ_cdn - | 267 23 Jan 2008 / #16you will simply have to accept my word for it.Thank you for your offer, but I will pass.
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #17That is your decision. I tried to help but some people simply can not be helped I suppose. I certainly will not lose any sleep over it. Anyway, is this not a polish forum?
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #19You were also wrong if I remember in writing do swidania as one word when it was two.
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #21Exactly, with the stress on the final 'o'. Why the big deal anyway?
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #23Yes, that is what I said-with the stress on the final 'o'o. Another use of niczego in Polish is that it expresses something being useless. Coś albo ktoś jest do niczego.
Kociewiak 23 Jan 2008 / #24But there is a sound "je" in Polish, it just isn't made into a separate sign. For example words like "jest" or "je" feature this sound, don't they? Pozdro.
osiol 55 | 3,921 23 Jan 2008 / #25Go on - someone tell me something interesting about the Polish genitive.
Michal - | 1,865 23 Jan 2008 / #26is a sound "je" in Polish, it just isn't made into a separate sign. For example words like "jest" or "je" featuYes, but some Poles on this Forum are trying to state that the Russian word 'nicheevo' is not 'niczeevo' but is niczjevo' and that is rubbish. Teraz koniec tego tematu. Wystarczy na dziś!
osiol 55 | 3,921 23 Jan 2008 / #27I'll take your word for it Michał. I'm not learning Russian quite yet.
RJ_cdn - | 267 23 Jan 2008 / #28You were also wrong if I remember in writing do swidania as one word when it was two.Do branoc
Krzysztof 2 | 973 24 Jan 2008 / #29back to the topic (the question has been already answered, but I'd like to add an explanation for those confused about the lack of the genitive case in the quoted expression). That's what I read a while ago, so I hope I still remember correctly.the used form is "nie ma nic", because originally (in much older Polish) the word "nic" was a Genitive case of some other word (I forgot the archaic Nominative form), so naturally it was correct in this expression, over the centuries the Genitive form "nic" took over and became the Nominative, with the new Genitive ("niczego"), but the expression "nie ma nic" was enough common to remain unchanged despite the fact that it was no longer in Genetive case.that's why we rather also say:nic nie wiemnic nie powiemnic nie widziałem (or niczego nie widziałem)etc.Here's your daily piece of useless linguistic knowledge of Polish :)
storm80 - | 4 28 Feb 2008 / #30Merged: storm80: GenitiveHi,I'm new to this forum, been reading it for a while, thought I'd join in!I've been studying Polish at evening classes for a few months now and we have just started the genitive case. When talking about quantities the genitive is required. In the example: Proszę butelkę wina, wina takes the genitive but butelka still takes the accusative? why is this???