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Russia tells teachers to lie to students about "Katyn"


Hueg - | 320  
7 Sep 2008 /  #121
who is Borg

You can't have a singular Borg they're like militant existentialists. No one mention seven. :)
We are the Borg.
We ARE the Borg.
You will BE assimilated, with a long breathy E.

conditioned people to serve their purposes.

Yep kind of sums it up but it's more than that. The assimilated believe not only that it's their purpose in life to serve but also to get others to do the same.

Gene Roddenberry got the idea one Sunday afternoon after some militant canvassing didn't he?
I can prove it there were witnesses. :)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
8 Sep 2008 /  #122
Hue is Borg, lol. There was a Borg called Hue.

Sorry lesser, I can't remember who used the Borg analogy.
Hueg - | 320  
8 Sep 2008 /  #123
There was a Borg called Hue.

He was One of them. Five I mean. Fab probably. :)

Our strange occular implants allow us to dispense fashion, cookery and grooming advice. You will be assimilated, ooh.

My friend Pastel will now take you up The Alley vicar. <He's gone white> It's a Theatre you mucky lot.

Hugh however was an ex-Borg as he'd had his link severed. <ooer> More Winston really.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
10 Sep 2008 /  #126
Excellant article on education and what is taught in Russia. I don't want to "quote" it to death but feel it's a must read in full. "He later confirmed the rumor that it was the presidential administration, along with the ministry of education, that had "invited" him to assemble the manuscript, making the textbook nothing less than an expression of Vladimir Putin's view of Soviet history"

"Vladimir Putin's reading of the Soviet Union's record represents nothing less than a repeal of glasnost and its accomplishments in the cause of truth."

"It is true that there was no "Nazism" in the Soviet Union, and no Auschwitz. But six weeks in the Kolyma camps turned a healthy adult man into a walking skeleton, dying of dystrophia, wracked by the bloody diarrhea of pellagra, and oozing pus and blood from frostbitten fingers and toes."

"We are saying: why remember? Why remember the past? It is no longer here, is it? Why should we remember it? Why disturb the people? What do you mean: why remember? If I was gravely ill and I was cured, I will always remember [the deliverance] with joy. Only then will I not want to remember, when I am still ill, in the same way or even more seriously, and I wish to deceive myself. . . . Why remember that which has passed? Passed? What has passed? How could it have passed--that which we not only have not started to eradicate and heal but are even afraid to call by its name? How could a brutal illness be cured only by our saying that it is gone? And it is not going away and will not and cannot go away until we admit that we are ill. In order to cure an illness one must first admit that one has it."


aei.org/publications/filter.all,pubID.28586/pub_detail.asp
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
10 Sep 2008 /  #127
Carol, I don't know about Poland and the US but in Russia it's considered mauvais genre (bad form) to admonish others whilst your own face is in a trough. The US have bulsh!tted their youth for ages. It's impossible to learn anything new about what's happening in the World watching american newsblocks and reading their history books. Polish government simply sold their own nation. Why can't "putiashka" do it then?

-was quoted as saying that "our goal is to make the first textbook in which Russian history will look not as a depressing sequence of misfortunes and mistakes but as something to instill pride in one's country. It is in precisely this way that teachers must teach history and not smear the Motherland with mud."

They just follow the US policy.
Remember one simple thing every government every generation write the history the way they want. It's well-known and it's more or less like that everywhere... to say nothing about the US. The US is an empire... they have always lied to people, otherwise they would have fallen apart a long ago. American "patriotism" is a garbage by 90% as well as Russian... maybe ours is by 50% (since we're not that experinced in brainwashing).

"As to some problematic pages in our history--yes, we've had them. But what state hasn't? And we've had fewer of such pages than some other [states]. And ours were not as horrible as those of some others. Yes, we have had some terrible pages: let us remember the events beginning in 1937, let us not forget about them. But other countries have had no less, and even more. In any case, we did not pour chemicals over thousands of kilometers or drop on a small country seven times more bombs than during the entire World War II, as it was in Vietnam, for instance. Nor did we have other black pages, such as Nazism, for instance. All sorts of things happen in the history of every state. And we cannot allow ourselves to be saddled with guilt--they'd better think of themselves."

How about that thought, Carol? You don't like it?

As for putin's calculations. Nothing's wrong with them. Don't worry, children and people know everything and will never forget that's mentioned apart from the ways of execution. You better worry about your country where people have remained blind for many years and I suspect will never learn the truth. Typical american is lack of an opportunity to get some new info.

The article is stinky, nothing more and the fact are tirer un texte. I strongly sympathize you if that kind of sh!t-arcticles you're gathering in web strokes your ego. You should understand Russophobia is an illness. So... get better.

As Russian wits like to say, "sovereign democracy" and "democracy" are as different as "electric chair" and "chair."

This I like. Never seen in English.

Excellant article on education and what is taught in Russia.

If you like some article, that doesn't necessarily mean it's worthy and excellent.

P.S. The more I read people like you, the less I loathe putin. That worries me... In comparison to western media and their statements, ours sometimes seems to be the bulwark of democracy.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
10 Sep 2008 /  #128
The US have bulsh!tted their youth for ages. It's impossible to learn anything new about what's happening in the World watching american newsblocks and reading their history books.

Show me where? Lets see do you think history will leave out what President Bush did wrong?

The more I read people like you, the less I loathe putin

And this is a good thing for Russia? Sooner or later you must conclude that in order to play on the play ground with all nations you must behave. Just maybe Putin is not doing the right thing for the Russian people?

"Putin has been both the instigator and beneficiary of this rising nationalist tide. The old Soviet iconography, albeit stripped of its communist undercurrents, began to return in the service of the new strident Russian state, from the restoration of the melody of the old Soviet anthem, to the manipulation of the nationalistic aspects of Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's work. The most disturbing revisionist trend, however, has been the rehabilitation of Stalin and many of his most heinous deeds. For Poland, this is particularly worrying not only because it is illustrative of Russia's renewed hostility toward it, but also because Poland was more affected by his actions than other any non-Soviet nation."
LastUnicorn - | 2  
10 Sep 2008 /  #129
Show me where? Lets see do you think history will leave out what President Bush did wrong?

Ok, e.g. Bush authorized the leaking of selected portions of classified documents, selected in such a way as to constitute a lie. He painted a picture of a nuclear threat that he knew did not exist, and used it to scare people into supporting an illegal war, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
10 Sep 2008 /  #130
He painted a picture of a nuclear threat that he knew did not exist, and used it to scare people into supporting an illegal war, resulting in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people.

In the USA this is a known fact and they even looked into taking him out of power. Now show me where in the USA we lie and deny history even if we screw up.
southern 75 | 7,096  
10 Sep 2008 /  #131
Now show me where in the USA we lie and deny history

US historiography?What do you mean?That Socrates was black?
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
10 Sep 2008 /  #132
US historiography

Putin knows the truth and decides to teach a lie, Bush lied and we all know it. I asked for examples of USA history that you cannot read the truth, even if it makes us look bad.
Sasha 2 | 1,083  
11 Sep 2008 /  #133
Carol, I'm a bit tired of our one-sided dialogues when I'm stating the points, you simply ignore them, pull out of my text couple phrases and state your question.

We have a verbal game in Russia... it's called "yevrey" or "zhid" (jew) by their manner of speaking: the sense is not to answer the question but to bring up your own instead. For instance:

- What're you doing right now?
- And how about you?
- Why are you asking?
- Why are you interested in that I'm asking you?
.... etc.
Do you wanna play the game? Open new thread then...

Anyway...

Sasha:
The more I read people like you, the less I loathe putin

And this is a good thing for Russia?

Good thing what? How this boils down to my statement?

Sooner or later you must conclude that in order to play on the play ground with all nations you must behave.

...we must behave in the manner of other nations? in the manner of the US? So... we're getting closer and closer to the way you play. We don't go on the world's terror yet though...

Just maybe Putin is not doing the right thing for the Russian people?

He's not doing right thing for russian people of course, but your government's doing worse thing for american (which is more or less fine as long as it's only americans who suffer) and for people all over the world.

As for the links... there're plenty of them. You only need a will to look for them. Don't be lazybones. So help you google... or maybe Joe can explain to you what the US is. Take off the blinders.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
11 Sep 2008 /  #134
Stalin's Willing Executioners

"Echoing Solzhenitsyn, Wajda extols remembrance: "The best remedy for political and social problems is to show them and to speak truly about them." In contrast, the Kremlin shut down its Katyn investigation in 2005 without prosecuting any perpetrators. KGB alumnus Vladimir Putin classified as secret 116 volumes of findings."

amconmag.com/article/2008/sep/08/00028/

"Another long-standing bone of contention between Poland and Russia is the case of Katyn Massacre."

The Germans revealed the 1940 mass murder of 22,000 Polish officers in Katyn, Russia and accused the NKVD, who, in turn, reflected the blame upon the Nazis. In 1990, the Russian government officially acknowledged NKVD's responsibility for the event, but refused to see it as a war crime.

"Today, in fact, the Moscow City Court will hold a trial in which the Russian Organization "Memorial" will attempt to reveal the truth about the massacre."
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
7 Jan 2009 /  #135
economist/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=549283&story_id=10639983 here's a good article. Putin does seem to be a bit misguided here.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
8 Jan 2009 /  #136
Putin does seem to be a bit misguided here.

Thank you for an interesting article. This was almost 1 year and look at where we are today.

But that calculus holds only if modern day rulers show no hint of sympathy for their predecessors’ atrocities. If Herr Puschnik, our putative leader of a post-Nazi Germany, starts flirting with Holocaust denial, every alarm should ring.

Vladimir Putin has already come dangerously close to this in Russia. He has claimed that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was legal. He sees no need to apologise to Baltic victims of Stalinism.

Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Jan 2009 /  #137
You are welcome. The Economist is often critical of Russia, unlike Time magazine which named him the Statesman of the Year for 2008.

Still, they do aim for a certain level of objectivity.
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
10 Jan 2009 /  #138
The soviets are the smartest people ever!
Attacking Poland after just becoming a country in 1918.The Poles were not expecting war and the soviets think that we already have proper POW campes.And there saying that its our problem that the soviets died from disease.Poles werent treated much better or even before 1918 the russians didnt even treat Poles good either.
OP celinski 31 | 1,258  
11 Jan 2009 /  #139
The soviets are the smartest people ever!

Where do you see IQ here?

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