It depends on your definition of a "good job". 3city has a large SSC/BPO sector so I guess they would be happy to hire a native English speaker for a call center 1st line of technical support and similar positions... that should pays around average national salary... If that's a good job or not is a matter of personal perspective... without really fluent Polish and no degree it will be nearly impossible to get any truly "upper class" job but I think "native speakers" of western languages can still meet both ends here somehow without mopping the floors.
Hey guys. I am from Pakistan but based in UAE for the past two years. I am planning to study International Business in the University of Warsaw.
I am an HR professional, but I know it is of no use to find even temporary work there as I can only speak in English.
What are the prospects of a student earning their living in Warsaw, considering they can only communicate in English? Furthermore, what are the prospects of finding decent work after graduation?
What are the prospects of a student earning their living in Warsaw, considering they can only communicate in English?
Practically zero. If you need to earn money to support yourself, then Poland is not the country for you.
As for studying international business, that is a bad idea, especially if you are going to study it in an English-language course in Poland. English-language courses in Poland are generally of inferior quality and are not respected by employers anywhere, in Poland or elsewhere. This is particularly true with a vague subject like international business, which is worthless unless it is studied at one of the top schools in the world, like London School of Economics, Harvard or Stanford.
As for finding work in Poland after your studies, the chances, again, are practically zero. You might have a small chance if you studied something like computer engineering or financial mathematics, but the wages would be far lower than in richer countries.
If you want to do business, then about the worst thing to study is business. Study a field that requires a lot of advanced applied mathematics, like petroleum, geological or biomedical engineering, or econometrics (not economics), financial mathematics (not finance), financial engineering or actuarial sciences. The world needs more people who can do advanced applied mathematics. It doesn't need more graduates in "international business".
@makdxb It depends. There are some international companies that hire foreigners with no knowledge of Polish but they must have really good qualifications and experience.
Does a degree in Business from a Polish university in English count as good qualification? I do hold a masters degree already and relevant UAE experience though.
Get your degree in IT and business studies, then get a job in the UAE carrying out business systems implementations, there is a huge market for it , you will make far more money doing that then going to Poland.
Does a degree in Business from a Polish university in English count as good qualification?
No. It's basically worthless on the job market. There is a huge glut of business graduates worldwide. Business degrees don't count for much unless they are from a top business school, and even then, they don't mean much without plenty of actual business experience.
Dominic is right. Think about it Max. Why would a Polish employer need you when he can find a local person with native fluency in Polish and adequate English skills to fill the role? The only time employers need to recruit a foreign national is if they can't find a local candidate with the necessary skills and experience. The fact that you've studied/are studying through English at a Polish university won't be of any interest to them.
Sadly, I'm certain you must be right in various industries. However, working in any country without at least knowing the basics of the national language would have to be agonizingly self defeating, sitting alongside one's colleagues at an office or factory and not really catching what they mean!
@makdxb It depends on the degree and the university. Your qualifications and skills must be really good to compete with someone who has the same degree and speaks both English and Polish.
There are international companies in Poland that hire foreigners with no knowledge of Polish but the question is: What is so special about your qualifications that makes you a better candidate that someone who does speak Polish.
There are also some call centres. The best you can do is to send your CV to some companies and check if they're interested.
Most EU-nations will number countless recent university grads who claim bi- indeed tri lingualism and are highly "competitive" with international job seekers! The issue becomes whether the quality of their English sufficiently matches that of their native language, along with their other skills, e.g. IT, event planning, accounting etc.
In my experience, at least in the rest of Europe (Italy, Germany, Austria), is that the average information technologist may well have above-average skills within their discipline, to be sure, might have graduated at the top of their class, competitive with the best from elsewere, yet their spoken and written English is typically lacking in comparison with that of an American, Brit, Australian or Canadian.
Convincing many young Italians, Germans, and Austrians of this, can often be a full -time job (...equipt with battle gear for the tough fight one'll get)!
Bottom line in today's economy remains just that; to maintain a healthy bottom line, international companies are eschewing hiring interpreters because it's considered way too expensive. As a result, those on staff who are, say, IT enginieers and NOT language specialists, are empowered with the feeling that their English is good enough for any situation, even if it's not always the case, furthermore, that any criticism of their English skills must be merely knitpicking:-)
Prior to run-away globalization, companies would intelligently use only qualified native-speaking interpreters and translators for sensitive, international negotiation, refusing to trust every Pietro, Elena, Udo, Hartmut out there who claimed that their Matura/Abitur-level English iminently qualified them to go one-on-on with any educated native-born and trained English speaker.
yet their spoken and written English is typically lacking in comparison with that of an American, Brit, Australian or Canadian.
Of course, because you can't compare them to native speakers. The question is, how many Anglos know a second or third language that they speak fluently? See, you lost already against your European competitors...
Knowing English isn't exactly a rare skill in Poland anymore.
Which is probably true for most countries these days.
...who claimed that their Matura/Abitur-level English iminently qualified them to go one-on-on with any educated native-born and trained English speaker.
You couldn't hold a candle to a native Polish or German speaker either, so what's the point? Be happy that you are able to get away with English most of the time.
Which is probably true for most countries these days.
In Western Europe and North America yes and of course Anglophone countries. In other parts of the world not really except for the more educated, business persons, higher classes, etc.
My German is superior to the English of any native German speaker whom I've encountered thus far, not to mention Pole, Italian, Austrian or other:-)
Hate to disappoint you (yet once again), but yes my friend, I WON this fight, and no, I'm not especially "happy" to theoretically be at the eternal mercy of non-native Anglophones who seem to enjoy holding their alleged bilingualism over my head!
That's not being defensive or what have you, it's being realistic.
By the way, I DID misspell "NITpicking"...unless I'm knitting while I'm pickingLOL
Returning to the thread topic after a brief detour off the highway of good sense, I recently read in the US Journal of Higher Ed (ESL section) that more and more European universities will usually require an updated TESOL degree from any number of state-accredited British or American institutions before the applicant can even think about being interviewed.
I'm pretty sure your German is superior to the German of any German. The same applies to your Polish. It's better than the Polish of any native speaker of Polish. But it's still your modesty and objectivity that win our hearts.
As for language skills, it's not enough to know a language fluently to get a good job. You need to have other skills. English is a medium of communication between people from different countries. Nothing else. You don't need to write poetry in English to get a job in an international company.
It's superior to everything Deutschland uber alles don'y u know, even I am good at sprakzie deuctch, wit bien gutter das mine polskie and (sorry und) engilskie, blatter, Impressive heh what u all think, gis a job.
The goal is not poetry, but the nuances of English, for that matter, any extant language spoken. Where once, firms used native speakers of those languages to communicate with international, foreign-speaking clients, today, we are reliant far too frequently on the less than sufficient English of non-native Englisn speakers, far too quick to rationalize their less than perfect English on the fact that the client probably won't know or care about the difference.
We've become tone deaf to idiom and are in danger of losing the humor and melody which makes English so special to us Anglophiles.
There's no need to be sarcastic, kaprys. I never once contended that I spoke German BETTER than a native-born German and so forth. However, the thread is about finding a job in Poland without necessarily knowing Polish. My reply is that the ideal candidate should make it their business to know both languages... or simply stay home. They thus can save themselves a lot of grief, and money!
I'm sorry but I don't think you're objective enough to claim your German is better than the English of any German you have met.
The same applies to your Polish. Who judged it? Keep in mind, there's a difference between high self-esteem and arrogance. Foreigners who work in international companies in Poland and other countries in Europe often speak English even though it's not their mother tongue. Think about it ... tens of posts written by Indians looking for/having found a job in Poland ... do they all speak Polish?
We all still appear to be missing the key point, put another way, we're not seeing the forest for the trees.
It's easy to be wise acres and contrarians by playing the Devil's advocate even though I'm clearly right here, it's harder to fess up to the plain fact that for any variety of reasons, the standards for English have been watered down to the point of unrecognizability.
Were the average European university grad honest about their English skills, that they're practicing it and therefore enjoy speaking it (although obviously an educated native Anglophone can do it better) simply to look good in public, I'd have no problem. There'd be no pretense involved, and the playing field would be level, fair, and workable.
Plain fact is that for a foreigner in Europe, be it Poland, Germany or what have you, target language knowledge would seem a must! Excellent math or IT skills don't necessarily equate to commensurate English skill. A no brainer, that's all!
It's obvious that an educated native speaker of any language speaks it better than a non-native speaker of the language. But it doesn't mean people should stop learning languages. It would make language teachers unemployed. And the only person here who boasts about their language skills is you, I'm afraid.
What's your point really and what does it have to do with the topic of the thread? The poster may get a job in Poland and other places in Europe even if he doesn't speak the country's language.
The sole point is that, while finding a job in any country, obviously not only Poland, can be accomplished without knowing the target language of the country, the effort is more rewarding than merely relying on the other person's knowledge of English.
It's rather like being a babe in the woods. As an innocent, people can take that much more advantage of you, that's all.
When I was in Poland, people didn't expect me to know Polish and so in a shop, the shop owner felt he might overcharge or claim I misunderstood the wording on the sale tag. When I proved he was not being quite honest, the owner was quite surprised, rather embarrassed, and gave me the merchandise for free.
A small example, but proves my point once again that knowing at least the basics of the language can facilitate daily life immeasurably:-)
You had quite a few adventures during your several hours in Poland. A dishonest shop owner who gives away his merchandise for free - I used to think price tags show numbers, btw. Ehhh, another pointless discussion ....
As for foreigners working in a country whose language they don't understand, I dare say there are more of them in the US - quite a lot of them illegal workers.
@makdxb You should make sure you have enough money to support yourself during your stay here. I wouldn't suggest any regular student jobs if you don't speak the language.
Almost none if you plan to work in hr in pl without learning the language. Youd have to either look for work in a different direction or learn polish. Most of the guys that come from pakistan tend to go into it here. Its one of the better paying jobs. Otherwise you likely wont get anything better than a call center job with a western corp making around the national wage.
SGH is arguably the best b school in pl. They offer an english mba through univ of montreal but it is pricey by pl standards. Imo youre better off in the uae atleast financially anyway. If you finish a bachelors from sgh and know polish youll easily make 8k-10k zs upon graduation and add 50% more entry level after mba. That's a good salary by pl standards but likely not by uae
What you stated about the US is at least one of the main reasons why most of the country voted for the Man in the Red Tie:-)
The double standard is so apparent, it seems, to everyone but you.
Once at the UN-school in New York where I was teaching English and German, the owner came to me one morning and asked if I could replace the surplus of German classes with English (twice the load, at twice the money!!), as apparently the native-born head teacher of the German Sector was bothered by my "American accent". While not disturbing the content of instruction in any way, I pointed out to our esteemed principal that Frau Hagedorn, let's call her, had a noticable German accent as an English teacher, and yet nobody was said to have objectedLOL Tart as my retort undoubtedly was, I remained in their employ and even got a raise (though not for German).
Moral of the story; American accents are bothersome, amusing to say the least, in a foreign language, whereas foreign accents in English are "cool", "elegant", and "desirable".
I always thought I don't have an accent in English (how humble of me, no?) - and I went to London - nobody actually paid attention to my accent so I thought I don't have one - then I worked with an Irish-born guy for some time and told him that despite living in the UK most of his life he still a noticeable Irish accent - he replied to me that I have a strange accent - I was dismayed and flattered at the same time ;) - dismayed because he said I had an accent and flattered because he could not pinpoint it ;) - I am a strange beast
I think the point is that lots of native speakers of English think that the Polish accent is that heavy thing they hear in films. But it's not so. Similarly, I have met only one American guy who spoke fluent Polish and his accent was unlike what is presented as the American accent in Polish films like Ranczo etc. Of course, accents vary depending on the speaker.
@Lyzko Who said there's something wrong about the American accent? No one here. It's your personal work experience. Apparently yet another bad experience you have had with foreign language teachers involved. Perhaps there's something else you're not telling us or perhaps it's high time to change your job if you feel underestimated.
But it has nothing to do with the op's question. You're talking about being a language teacher in the USA and he asked about getting a job in Poland without knowing Polish. I don't he's into teaching. He may get a job in an international company without knowing Polish if his qualifications are important for the employer. Otherwise, it's going to be really difficult.
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