Buying a property in Poland to rent out from the UK

The rest of 2011, will be a very testing time, there is a good possibility of second global financial crisis hitting this year, just like 2008.

soon


you are the one who uses various user names,not me you idiot.

That's what you have been saying for years Mark. Could you at least give us some indication as to when this 50% crash is coming? That way I can have a bet with you about it not happening and I'll win my bet too. I'll even give you odd: how does ten to one sound to you?

hello, I am looking for pple who bought a house in Poland with Swiss francs. Could you please contact me via private message?
Thanks

Patience is a virtue, I said soon, unlike you and the rest of the casino capitalists, I don't gamble.

And you have been saying 'soon' for a couple of years.


Not surprising, one needs money in order to gamble and in order to get money one needs to work.

relax, deep breaths,I said soon.

a guy working in a real estate agency in Lublin told me that prices are down 25% in the last year.

Dzien Dobry,

Does anyone has a template of a rental contract available in Polish ?

I prefer to first rent out our appartment in Krakow myself instead of giving it to an agency.

Thanks in advance for your help on this matter.

Rgds

Olivier:
a) sign an English language contract;
b) make sure you are officially renting it as office space which cannot be lived in, otherwise it is nearly impossible to get people out.

Hi Harry,

What do you mean rent it as office space ? It is an appartment, not an office.

Rgds

He means that you should rent it as office space, not as an apartment. Much easier to kick people out of an office than out of a residential flat.

Surely this only holds if it's officially designated as a lokal użytkowy, not a lokal mieszkalny and if the renter is a company not an individual. AFAIK there's still no possibility of 'eksmisja na bruk' for individuals so it makes no difference.

The practice which I've seen very much suggests that it does work. Remember that you are not evicting them: you are terminating their office lease with the required notice.

If the flat is rented as commercial space, would this not involve VAT?, just curious.

Merged: Is it worth buying an apartment to rent out in Poland?

Hello, I am thinking about buying an appartment in Poland to rent out. I can afford up to or around 30,000 aAustralian dollars, which judging by various websites should be enough for at least a small 1-2 bedroom appartment. My question is; would it be financially worth it to rent out a place in Poland, or would the rent for appartments costing so little be too miniscule to bother with?

I think you better gather more, because this much will be enough to buy only studio apartment in small town. Better renting market is in the biggest cities and there you need minimum 200 000 PLN. What more, when investing in Poland you risk exchange course fluctuation. You should also find a company which could manage your apartment - find tenants. And 3rd if you stumble upon bad tenant, you will have a lot of problems, as it's hard to throw out not paying tenant. (I am not a specialist, but I've hard that it's possible to write smart renting agreement which protects rights of an landlord better) If you want to invest money, then it's much saver to rent business space for companies. It's easy to evict a company. You can find a found which manages many commercial properties and let you invest in them.

And don't forget that in investments the most important is the knowledge of market, so if you're not from Poland you may miss something.

A very small (25M3) studio in a very small town. In terrible condition. Which websites are you referring to, Max? I need a laugh.

Hi,

It is but location is crucial here. I would go for the mountains (Zakopane, for instance) as you can rent it pretty much all year round - tourists come here to ski in winter and hike in spring, summer and autumn. I'd also go for short term rental - much more money and the apartment gets to stay in a better condition (you need to have it cleaned every couple of days). But apartments in tourist resorts are obviously much more expensive - you won't get anything for 80.000 PLN ($30.000 AUS). Prices start from around 200.000 PLN and that would get you only a small studio (which is actually OK for short-term rentals).

Kind regards,

Kara

I am mainly looking at Warsaw, Krakow or Lodz. Obviously I am not expecting anything spectacular, however even something that brings back a profit of 200 dollars/fortnight I would consider. Here are a few examples of properties I have looked at:

warszawa.nieruchomosci-online.pl/mieszkanie,na-sprzedaz/9981699.html

warszawa.nieruchomosci-online.pl/mieszkanie,m2,z-oddzielna-kuchnia/10138615.html

warszawa.nieruchomosci-online.pl/mieszkanie,m2,z-aneksem-kuchennym/8358993.html

I don't know if I am missing something (my Polish isn't the best) however a lot of these places look pretty liveable. How much profit could be made on apartments such as these?

Problem with this adds is that they're fake. Average for 1 room apartment in Białołęka district is 7000pln/m^2 not 2500 as in these adds.

Take a look here: tiny.pl/q84rs
Here you have real prices in Białołęka.

Absolutely daft to buy an apartment to rent out if you don't know the country and spend time here. First you'd need an 'English speaking' estate agent (would you really trust one) who'd charge for being there in case there are problems, secondly you'd have no real control over what goes on (good luck suing someone if your flat is trashed), thirdly you'd create a tax liability here and fourthly rental prices are very low so it wouldn't be a great investment.

Have you spent much time here in PL?

These are all under the TBS system hence why they are cheap, you can find more info here on what TBS is [bankier.pl/wiadomosc/Mieszkanie-z-TBS-u-Czy-to-sie-oplaca-1268079.html] rents are regulated and my understanding it is social housing for those that think they can never afford to own a property. You might get something in Lodz for between 100-150k, but renting it for a profit probably not a wise investment and getting 200 dollars profit a fortnight I'd have to say you're dreaming a little.... (not that I'm qualified in anyway to give financial advice and I'm not familiar with Lodz as a city)

The cheapest flats in Warsaw start at around 150k however they tend to be in bad areas and the rental income would be small and the type of tenant riskier.

I'm thinking of buying something only a little better than that myself, but then again, I live here, speak the language, don't need a letting agent and can keep track of any problems myself as well as spending a bit of time to find the right tenant.

Do private sellers negotiate on price there? If so, by how much on average (%)? Or do they only give discounts for cash? Any guidance? I may buy in Warsaw as no real reason for me to be stuck in Wrocław. Was thinking of Krakow but it seems to have air quality issues. [krakowpost.com/article/6285]

From investment point of view, that's not an obstacle, as Kraków introduced ban on solid fuels in the city area since 2018. So the quality of air will only be getting better and perhaps the value of its properties together with it.

[gazetakrakowska.pl/artykul/1051912,zakaz-palenia-weglem-w-krakowie-mieszkancy-maja-watpliwosci,id,t.html]

Have to agree with the others here. First of all, you're not going to be able to buy anything rentable for 30,000 AUD. You'll need at least three or four times as much to buy a decent one-bedroom apartment.

Second of all, unless you have ABUNDANT experience buying and renting out real estate in distant countries, and very good knowledge of the local market, the chances of you ever making even a single penny on this investment are zero.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but your plan is, frankly, doomed to failure. There is no point in pursuing it any further. Invest in something you know about.

Real estate is not for dilettantes. All the more so real estate way on the other side of the planet.

Why do people want property prices to go up? Do they think it's good that families (or any private person) should have to borrow more and more money from banks or family to put a roof over their head? I wouldn't be buying as an investment, I'd be buying a home. I can tell you in Wrocław the prices are usually 30-90% more than 2005/6 generally. To me, that's not a good thing and is way above inflation. The reason is a mystery but some tell me it's foreigners buying. Well, I'm not going to be one of the foreigners who pushes prices up and makes it hard for Poles.

@InWrocław: You're right that people should not want apartment prices to rise, but this is what investors want. I thought that you want to invest in Kraków, not buy home. In this case perhaps you're right to opt out of Kraków. Who knows how fast the air pollution will be decreasing. Rise in apartment prices is not a mystery. It was mostly caused by increase in number of taken mortgages, many with cheap interstates rates, because denominated in CHF or EUR. Substantial salary increase in last decade and money send from emigrants helped too.

Expect the asking price that they've advertised, whether agent or private, to be ridiculously inflated - up to 25%. If when you start to negotiate they start speaking English to you, switch back to Polish and if they start trying to patiently explain market conditions, walk out. If they start trying to explain market conditions in English, slam the door as you go - let them sell it to Pan Wojtek instead.

When I ask people about salary increases they tell me that salaries have not risen by that figure since 2005, Monitor. They tell me they've barely risen at all. Yet I can point to numerous apartments here that sold for 220-250 tys in 2005 or 2006 and now the vendors (sellers) won't take anything less than 400 tys. Of course, this problem is not confined to Poland. In my opinion it simply must be banks lining their own pockets by opening the money taps and therefore pushing up prices. There are supposed to be sensible controls so that people don't borrow more than a certain multiple of their income but, as also happened in other countries, there seems to be a fuzzy line here and perhaps a nod is as good as a wink in some banks? I hope not. But I can't understand it otherwise, it can't just be rich foreigners as some agents probably bluff. Looking at the ads here, I see many developers have lowered their prices even in the prestige estates. Yet, a large number of secondary market sellers are hanging on to very inflated asking prices month in and month out. Having done my homework, I can see on average I'd be paying 40% more than 2005 and in many cases very close to double. And no, a lot of them are reluctant to negotiate by more than a couple of percent if anything. I was thinking of a house here but I just don't feel comfortable with most of the prices. When I come across one that I do like (at a good price) it's always "just sold" or "they just signed the sales agreement for another buyer, sorry".

That brought a smile, thanks Jon. I agree with your sentiments entirely!