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Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates


Crow 146 | 9,129
30 Jun 2020 #1,741
which means taking over all independent institutions in the country by an autocrat

Ah, in sense of Orban is a dictator. Well, no Orban isn`t perfect but, he is under extraordinary pressure from western Europe.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Jun 2020 #1,742
Yes, some in Konfedracja.

hahaha now you corroborate PiS` accusations of Konfederacja being Russian agents. Orban openly supports Putin and his plans for Europe. If Konfederacja is like Orban, then they are Russian puppets. Thank you for being so honest with us. hahaha
Zlatko
30 Jun 2020 #1,743
I'd take Orban over Duda or Borisov. For Poland my views seem aligned to Konfederacja the most.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
30 Jun 2020 #1,744
I don`t blame you coz Poles who live out of Poland are never up to date with most recent events

And I don't blame you for not understanding Polish people, non-Poles rarely ever do.

And don`t connect it with LGBT.

The majority of Poles are against fags, which is why Duda's message of protecting the traditional family unit resonates among Poles. It's just icing on the cake. If it was only the 500 z's that made him popular he wouldn't be the front runner today beating Fagowski by 50% in 1st round, and the money is on Duda to beat him in the 2nd as well. Money is one thing, independence and not kowtowing to the EU's diktats and forcing turd worlders and lgbt ideology onto Poles who don't want it are important too. Immediately after Kopacz was persuaded by Merkel and the EU to take in human garbage into Poland PO immediately lost popularity.

Your words about Russia are amusing considering the state of affairs between our two states.

Putin having balls and Russia being respected worldwide even by its enemies has nothing to with the affairs between Poland and Russia. I also admire Al-Assad for gassing goat ******* jihadis and Iran for keeping the jews and taking over Iraq, yet that has nothing to do with the affairs of Syria and Poland or US. You can admire a country or leader despite some tensions they may have with Poland or another country.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
30 Jun 2020 #1,745
The majority of Poles are against fags

No more. The latest plebiscite for or against LGBT has just proved it.
If they were, the turnout at the election would be higher than 65% and Duda with Bosak would collect more votes. But they didn`t coz most Poles don`t care about LGBT. And even Duda had eventually realised his attakcs on LGBT were fruitless or even harmful to his chances, so he gave up and even met with an LGBT activist to relieve the tensions caused by his party.

rmf24.pl/fakty/polska/news-duda-spotkal-sie-z-aktywista-lgbt-rozmawiali-o-sytuacji-mnie,nId,4559552



Miloslaw 8 | 3,220
30 Jun 2020 #1,746
most Poles don`t care about LGBT

That is true.
But it does not mean that most Poles would find LGBT freedoms being relaxed acceptable.
Most Poles are just not interested because it is not important.Full stop.
But if you try to make LGBT lifestyles acceptable or introduced into mainstream education, you will have a problem...
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Jul 2020 #1,747
It seems that the 1st round of presidential elections sunk another political dogma: high voters turnout works against Duda.

Last parliamentary election sunk two dogrmas: high voters turnout works against PiS and also that: voting for Konfederacja is a lost vote because they will never get into a parliament.

A.Duda will have to attract ~ 1 100 000 more voters

and R.Trzaskowski will have to convince ~ 3 700 000 more

A day has passed and no one explained here where is Trzaskowski going to get those ~3 700 000 missing votes in order to win in the 2nd round.

I'm waiting for some [half]decent analysis based not purely on a reality distortion field combined with high dose of wishful thinking if possible.
Lenka 3 | 2,577
1 Jul 2020 #1,748
Yeah but we managed to keep it semi normal for over 50 pages!

I'm waiting for some [half]decent analysis based not purely on a reality distortion

That is not my kind od thing. Maybe Delph will try when he shows up.
It won't be easy by any means but it's not like that is going to stop me voting against Duda. If Trzaskowski does win it will be by a very small margin.

Most commentators say it won't be a battle for voters but more about mobilising their electorate
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
1 Jul 2020 #1,749
Duda in danger with his voters thinking its in the bag IMO. This is going to be very close either way. This alone should say something to PiS that they need to do things differently. Whether they get bounced out this time or not, their days are clearly numbered. As the old die, and the uneducated who have educated children become more aware of their childrens opinions and wants, the old ways will die off.

This has been Polands problem since the country was restored, older people trying to tell the younger people how to act and think while still hopping for all the benefits that the western society has to offer. There is no way this can happen. When people talk about voting against someone or some party, clearly it is a sign that the status quo is not working.

When the June unemployment numbers come out, people should really think about how poorly the shield worked. They should think that the only unemployment numbers that are reported are for those Poles who can file, and not for roughly one million more Ukraine who do not file who have not come back, or those millions who work without a contract in the service industry that has been decimated.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Jul 2020 #1,750
Yeah but we managed to keep it semi normal for over 50 pages!

OK, from now on, it is back to normal.

of presidential elections sunk another political dogma: high voters turnout works against Duda.

But it did! He got only 43.5% instead of over 50%. Isn`t it clear?
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Jul 2020 #1,751
to PiS that they need to do things differently

PiS won a parliamentary majority in 2015 elections and then again in 2019. No other political party in Poland has ever won a parliamentary majority even once ever before. So much for that analysis.

You see, in order to win first you have to make right choices based on real information. Propaganda, mind that, is for the masses to keep them excited/motivated/discouraged. The political party has to operate on hard data not on wishful thinking in order to succeed.

The problem with "total opposition" is that majority of their politicians, think-tanks, political collumnists and supporters have very deluded outlook.

Those halfwits truly believe that they are the true elite of Poland and they are loosing only because that pesky uneducated massess cannot see their greatness and they don't vote for them. They refuse to understand that they represent nothing of value for Polish society and in the age of widespread internet access and info exchange they cannot stupify the society any longer on such a scale with controlled access to information as before. The "king" is naked.

The same process can be observed in the US under the Trump administration. The Liberals in the US believe that they are a true elites, a cream of the crop and cannot understand why people are not voting for them. The only answer they've managed to squiz out from their "elite" brains is that is because the voters are stupid/racists/backwards/don't understand what's good for them. That's the state of the "elites" these days...
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Jul 2020 #1,752
No other political party in Poland has ever won a parliamentary majority

The explanation is simple - no other party had ever offered such huge benefits. Simple.

The political party has to operate on hard data

Yes, PiS` hard data was their knowledge that people like money from handouts. :)

It is so simple while you or Dirk are making such big ideology of it.

They refuse to understand that they represent nothing of value for Polish society

Now you are also talking about Konfederacja. Correct me if I am wrong but you need to explain how. hahaha
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
1 Jul 2020 #1,753
But people are voting both for anti PIS candidates - for example in local elections and in senate elections. The people who vote against PIS are younger, richer, better educated, and a clear majority of the working population. None of them are sitting around Costa Coffee claims themselves to be an elite - they just have different lifestyles and values.

They might be 48 percent of the population but they are 90 percent of the tax base and that is going to be a huge problem

Ditto people are voting democrat - more than 3m extra votes for Hillary compared to Dettol Donald. The Democrats won the last mid term elections by more than 10 million votes. I don't know how the Presidential elections will go but for sure Biden will get at least 5 million more votes than Trump. e votes come from working people, more educated people, younger people.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Jul 2020 #1,754
Yes, PiS` hard data was their knowledge that people like money from handouts. :)

Social programs such as 500+ [year 2016] and others were introduced after the parliamentary 2015 elections. People voted for Duda in April 2015 and also for PiS in fall 2015 for different reasons. Failing to understand the reality results in perpetual defeat on the side of total opposition.

@pawian, spare me your empty replies, unless you have something of value to bring to the table. I'm waiting for:

where is Trzaskowski going to get those ~3 700 000 missing votes in order to win

More substance and less word ping-pong.
OP pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Jul 2020 #1,755
Those halfwits truly believe that they are the true elite of Poland

Some do, others don`t. Why do you generalise? I know why. You probably got influenced by black propaganda. Don`t believe what bad people say.

People voted for Duda and for PiS in 2015 for different reasons back then.

Oops, I understand you were away in 2015 and don`t remember due to young age or lack of interest in politics etc. But you could fill in your knowledge about those elections later on. It`s a pity you didn`t do it coz now you are wrong, unfortunately. The promise of handouts plus lowering retirement age threshold were main motives in PiS` campaign back then and people decided to try them out.

Failing to understand the reality results in perpetual defeat on the side of total opposition.

Please, stop those useless incantations which explain nothing.
The reality is that most citizens don`t mind draining the state`s finances and getting it into debt as long as they get their benefits. This is "Let there be deluge after us" approach. The opposition was against such thinking and that is why they lost.

unless you have something of value to bring to the table.

Funny but I could say the same about you. You are offering us empty slogans taken precisely from PIS propaganda.

I'm waiting for:

Why are you so impatient? Like a randy young male on a first date. hahaha Wait for your turn and you will get what you want. Today I am going to be busy all day, even now I should be doing sth else instead of writing here. :):):)
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Jul 2020 #1,756
in 2015 and don`t remember due to young age or lack of interest in politics etc

I do remember it and I was active in aforementioned elections.

Let me refresh your memory: the main reason that Poles voted for PiS in 2015 was a "refugee" crisis. Poles said no to enforced, militant multikulti ideology coming from the EU [and Germany].

The rest is not worth commenting. And now:

I'm waiting for analysis: where is Trzaskowski going to get those ~3 700 000 missing votes

OP pawian 176 | 14,299
1 Jul 2020 #1,757
the main reason that Poles voted for PiS in 2015 was "refugee" crisis.

Only in a warped mind of an obsessed nationalist. I don`t mean you, of course, but other guys who see refugees everywhere, even under their own beds and you repeat those obsessions here.

Come on, refugee crisis also wasn`t enough to make PiS win. Money, that`s all. If PiS had invited 1 million refugees and still offered people benefits and lower retirement age, they would have won majority anyway.

PS. My little commentary: you are constantly producing new theories today. What is wrong, Spike? I have always liked your logical thinking but today you are creating new worlds which never existed before, like my fav writer, Stanisław Lem.

Is it because holidays have come? hahaha

And now:

And now you must wait! Ha! I always give quality answers to my interlocutors which sometimes require time which I am lacking now to analyse things. So, again, why are you so impatient? Do you want me to brush you off with some silly reply like to a kindergarten kid??? hahaha
dolnoslask 6 | 3,541
1 Jul 2020 #1,758
Only in a warped mind

From my time here in Poland (7 years), I have found that 90% of the people around me have the following issues.

1. don't like 500 plus because they think the parents drink the money.

2. Don't like the idea of non slavic migrants (Concerns over terrorism and conflicting religion)

3. Gay LGBT Parades / Education at school.

4. Germans (Buying up Poland)

5. Soros

6. Kaczyński

7. Tusk

So whom should they vote for given the above Issues.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
1 Jul 2020 #1,759
You have been in the house too long dolno - For a lot of people the biggest issue now is where is their next paycheck coming from and why are the prices going up.

Whoever wins this election will have to fix that problem.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,282
1 Jul 2020 #1,760
I have found that 90% of the people around me have the following issues.

You live in a village of the country (as you said), so no wonder you hear 90% of the people with such issues. It is amazing sometimes how people are lazy and don't want to think themselves, but prefer to repeat what is served to them by politicians.

1. Not true; however some do, but most don't.
2. You should replace 'non slavic' with 'non-white'. The phenomenon is common to all post-communist countries of Europe, the former DDR included.
3. They mistake LGBT education at school with general sex education at school. I think PiS is against contraception and they even prefer teenage pregnancy over contraception, that's why they use LGBT for stopping people from becoming less dependent on Church teaching on sex (at the same time doing nothing to curb sexual abuse of children and teenagers by priests)

4. This is the most favorite tune of the right-wing politicians which they always play when in trouble. Notice that PiS has nothing against German investments in Poland and people who would work in such new enterprises don't either). Likewise, it is Jews buying up Poland or the LGBT folk conspiring to shatter Polish families.

5. As above plus a plot on an international scale secretly conceived by this Hungarian Jew
6. The issue with Kaczyński is probably they wouldn't vote him for president, but they eagerly vote for his poodle Duda which shows what state of schizofrenia they live in.

7. The issue with Tusk is that he is blamed for everything evil in Poland ("waza zbiła się etruska - wina Tuska!") in the same way as Soros is blamed for all evil on the planet.

Dolno, wake up and start to think as an intelectully independent man! Are you a victim of the politician's propaganda, too?
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
1 Jul 2020 #1,761
@Spike31
I actually agree with your take on the "elite" and "non elite" in Poland and USA. The extreme groups on both sides are simply stupid. As I have said before, PiS has some good platforms I would support on immigration, and non LGBT education or promotion of those values. The other side with open immigration is more of a think tank idea that they know will never completely fly but they want to appear to be EU friendly, same with LGBTQ rights, they know that most of it will never happen because Poland is Poland in the end.

Being a pragmatist though, neither of these groups will ever be able to full achieve their goals. They are too extreme. The real problem is who is better for the economy, education and health care. PiS has clearly pooped the bed on all three counts. The economy is propped up by state owned corporations that have to be phased out anyway, local business owners are getting killed by ZUS going up every year along with wages, yet the Zloty is continuing to decline. Health care is an absolute disaster and they give TVP 3 billion a year?!?! Teachers are treated like cockroaches and they wonder why Poles are not leading innovators in any field?

Growth is spurred by innovation, and money. Not coal and building worthless public projects with EU money. PiS has no clue what to do when the EU money stops flowing in and Poland becomes a net payer into the EU. The problem with all this, getting back to Spikes assertion is that the uneducated have no idea about what any of this means because they are uneducated and many only care about their free money. Anyone who cant see this as a real problem needs to get their eyes checked.
Crow 146 | 9,129
1 Jul 2020 #1,762
People, I just learned something new. Duda is also behind Polish Poczta. Very patriotic organization.

Have this in mind when voting for dobri brat Duda. Duda, venerable President of Poland.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
1 Jul 2020 #1,763
They mistake LGBT education at school with general sex education at school.

what happens if/when it becomes apparent that you are wrong about it? Will you take a personal responsibility?
Put the gun to your head and pull a trigger? Nope, guys like you will just mutter some lame excuses or change your tune all together and say that that outcome is actually beneficial in some way or other.

Hence self-declared lefties or even worse self-proclaimed impartial observers are not to be trusted. They are not people of integrity, able and willing to take responsibility. That fact alone makes them sh''ty and shifty tools.

Hey intellectual of this forum how comes you never came up with really intellectual arguments to defend you stand. Instead you post some lame ass platitudes and aspersions.?

How you put me on ignore. Suits you ignorance to the T. lol! Run Forrest run

By the way there is this interesting guy - Was that is - Forrest Carter.

he real problem is who is better for the economy,

In the regard to that PO and PiS are the same.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
1 Jul 2020 #1,764
uneducated have no idea about what any of this means because they are uneducated

The truth be told it is often better to deal with completely uneducated simple folks with common sense than with sub-educated fools with a uni degrees.

I met some wise simple farmers in my life and I've also encountered some 'educated' fools who shared their cherished pearls of wisdom with me. And even those who received decent education often fell into a trap of synchronizing their system of beliefs with a group of which they aspired to be part of. Any independent and/or controversial thought that wouldn't fit to that image had to be eradicated.

One particular example: an educated guy told me that only fools believe in conspiracies and educated people should not believe in such things.
So I asked him what happened to Julius Caesar, has he died of an old age or maybe some group of conspirators helped him a little bit with knives?

And Guy Fawkes: has he or has he not secretly plotted with the group of others to blow up the parliament? What about Adam Weishaupt: did he or did he not existed and was active in XIX-century Bavaria?

He didn't have any [pre-made] answers to those questions and I believe he didn't even know who Adam Weishaupt was back then..

you are creating new worlds which never existed before

Most people, like yourself, have short memory. I [un]fortunately have a very long one. It greatly helps with coding but also with analyzing political life as a whole and not only as separated single events. Unfortunately, it also means that I remember bullcrap that some people told me even a decade ago or so...

I remember what was going on back then in 2015, and I remember overall emotions pulsating in Polish society surrounding a Muslim "refugees" problem.

Support for has PO's has started to deteriorate at a fast pace - finally granting PiS a majority in parliament - after E. Kopacz agreed to take in ~4 thousand "refugees", a decission enforced on them by Germany and the EU. Once they realized how unpopular that decission was with the Poles they tried to withdraw from it but it was too late. They've already lost their credibility and people voted for PiS who was very anti "refugees".

I suggest that you dig into Polish newspapers and newsportals achives from 2015 and refresh your memory.

And here's a link to American Huffingtop Post from 2015 for a good start:

bit.ly/31yb3rD
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
1 Jul 2020 #1,765
It's the people educated in economically useless fields like literature, gender studies, philosophy, etc. that tend to think they're smarter than everyone else and look down on people who aren't educated or work in the trades.
jon357 66 | 17,078
1 Jul 2020 #1,766
economically useless fields like literature

Publishing, journalism, screen writing, copywriting etc. are far from "economically useless". Quite big fields even.

they're smarter than everyone else

Smarter than most people, certainly.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
1 Jul 2020 #1,767
I have to disagree. Farmers, tradesmen, and other non trained economic decision makers should not be in charge of economic policy. What Poland has right now is a teacher with zero economic or job experience being told what to do from a dinosaur in political policy making. PiS and PO are not the same economically. The hole in the economy created by PiS and the give aways will kill this country economically sooner rather than later. The completely restrictive business policy is a double whammy. Taxes, and ZUS are completely out of control because of PiS. Who pays for this? Our children, grand children and great grandchildren will pay. And no one is thinking about them and the country that will be left to them. Its really embarrassing.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,721
1 Jul 2020 #1,768
Publishing, journalism, screen writing, copywriting etc. are far from "economically useless". Quite big fields even.

No it's economically useless. It creates nothing useful. They are merely tools for pushing ideologies. Medicine, business, engineering, coding, etc. are economically useful, journalism, gender studies, etc. are useless - that's why most graduates in those fields end up working at Starbucks since no one else wants to hire them.

salary.com/passages/8-college-degrees-with-the-worst-return-on-investment/2/

Smarter than most people, certainly.

More like less useful than most people. They contribute next to nothing.

. Farmers, tradesmen, and other non trained economic decision makers should not be in charge of economic policy.

Why not? Surely they know more about their business, their field, their industry than some liberal elite from Warsaw who spends more time promoting fag parades than thinking of how to create more jobs and boost wages in rural areas.

The hole in the economy created by PiS and the give aways will kill this country economically sooner rather than later.

What hole are you talking about? GDP has grown a health 4-5% every year and debt to GDP is down while tax revenues and social spending have increased proportionately.
Zlatko
1 Jul 2020 #1,769
Poland is actually a good bang for the money. A terraced house in Warsaw suburbs is cheaper (around 175k €) than one in Sofia suburbs (around 200k €) with better salaries.
jon357 66 | 17,078
1 Jul 2020 #1,770
No it's economically useless. It creates nothing useful.

Income is always useful, as are jobs and economic activity generally.

More like less useful than most people. They contribute next to nothing

Or even more than most.

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