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Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates

Spike31 2 | 2,110
11 Jun 2020 #1,141
more people than ever are looking for substance

Like always, in - this time globally artificially induced - difficult times people are looking for more stability and not for changes. Which is a pity because we could see some good constructive changes for the better proposed by Konfederacja, but it could also mean that we could suffer changes for the worse introduced by POKO candidate.

Momentum is a curious thing

Nor PiS or POKO has that momentum.

PiS is a political party of power, a party of fat cats, and challengers are always more motivated to win than the reigning champion. Duda, on the other had, seems to still have an appetite for winning.

Trzaskowski has reclaimed POKO voters lost to disastrous Kidawa-Blonska [future is the female] campaign but no more than that. Compare POKO results before and after Kidawa-Blonska campaign and before quarantine. The shorter presidential campain will, paradoxically, work in his favour since he will have less occasions to open his mouth in public. Still, the remaining 2.5 weeks to the elections is enough for him to show his "competence" in all its glory :-)

Holownia had a momentum driven by mainstream media like TVN [Polish CNN] who saw him as a wunderwaffe against Duda during Kidawa-Blonska campaign. Holownia would look like an OK candidate at first glance given I wouldn't know who's behind him.

And K. Bosak has a momentum steeming from the grass roots movement and idealism of his young followers sharing political info on the internet. He is the only candidate who wasn't backed by any large media outfit but by a regular followers.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
11 Jun 2020 #1,142
I think you are so far off base on Duda that you cant see straight. Duda has no appetite for winning, his campaign is a laughing stock outside of PiS to all challengers. He is embarrassing and offers no stability. You clearly arent seeing any other news other than TVP.
amiga500 2 | 228
11 Jun 2020 #1,143
Hungary launches €398 million zero-interest loan scheme for small businesses in coronavirus stimulus package
Looks like maxiumum 6000 zloty per business. If PiS does not follow Orban's lead and launch somethng like this before election they deserve to lose.

To me he presents himself more like a full of sh*t hipster wearing a vintage scarf

Then he takes daddy's porsche to a high end mafia strip club, does too much coke, and accidentally murders a hooker.
Lenka 3 | 2,577
11 Jun 2020 #1,144
And K. Bosak has a momentum steeming from the grass roots movement and idealism

More steeming from the fact that he avoids any controversy . That works only as long as he is not too visible. Even his wife's interview creates backlash
Spike31 2 | 2,110
11 Jun 2020 #1,145
You clearly arent seeing any other news other than TVP.


More steeming from the fact that he avoids any controversy

Lenka, he speaks openly about hot button political and social issues and he never dodges any difficult questions when giving the interviews.

He is just a genuinely smart guy who is very good at logically and calmly explaining his point of view. Konfederacja and K. Bosak represent a new quality in Polish politics.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
11 Jun 2020 #1,146
He and his party have done nothing for the country to advance it other than spend EU money. The country is in a recession and paying out more than its taking in. Pretty simple to explain, now what is the PiS Duda solution?
Crow 146 | 9,129
11 Jun 2020 #1,147
EU draining Poland, not Duda. Duda actually didn't fail. He issued a call.

The EU will shater. Not Poland.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
11 Jun 2020 #1,148
genuinely smart guy

Duda, Trzaskowski and WKK all have doctorates. Bosak only finished high school.

Enough said.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
11 Jun 2020 #1,149
Just catching up on the day's politics, and Duda is getting hammered by Bosak for being a fake conservative. But more importantly, Bosak turned up in Kraków at the Corpus Christi procession. He's attacking małopolska strongly over the next few days, and you have to wonder if Duda has anything to respond with, especially given that Duda needs to worry about other areas too.

I don't think Bosak is an intellectual, but let's not pretend otherwise: Bosak is very clearly and decidedly putting forward an image of a true conservative. The only question here is whether right wing voters want actual conservative ideals and actions, or if they want pseudo-PiS style conservatism where it's all words and no action.
jon357 66 | 17,078
11 Jun 2020 #1,150
Enough said

It's that same feeling when you're a quarter of the way through a book or a film, yet you know exactly how it's going to end.
amiga500 2 | 228
11 Jun 2020 #1,151
It seems that left wing voters like you delph, don't want actual leftist ideals and actions, but you want PO style neo-liberalism with pseudo left virtue signalling on identity politics issues So if it applies to you why won't it apply to millions of ultra-conservatives who will vote for Bosak and then Duda in second round?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
11 Jun 2020 #1,152
Bosak's voters won't vote for Duda en masse in the second round, so you can rule that theory out.
amiga500 2 | 228
11 Jun 2020 #1,153
they will abstain or vote for Duda. Its common sense. I don't know how people think ultra conservatives, ultra-nationalists, monarchists and assorted would lean towards trashkowski and PO?
jon357 66 | 17,078
11 Jun 2020 #1,154
Bosak's voters won't vote for Duda en masse in the second round

Not a chance.

In any case, it's the floating voters rather than fascists that swing elections; and for a whole heap of reasons, the Overton Window is shifting.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 Jun 2020 #1,155
Its common sense.

Except polling consistently shows that around 20-25% will go to Duda, around 30% to Trzaskowski and the rest won't vote.

Why? You'll have to ask them, but there's very clear evidence that some Konfederacja supporters were unhappy with Duda singling out LGBT people, and even Bosak has made it repeatedly clear that he has no issue with them as taxpayers and citizens.

There's also the point that Trzaskowski will act as a brake on PiS.
Spike31 2 | 2,110
12 Jun 2020 #1,156
I see that support group therapy has started early this year. Aren't you even going to wait for the results? :-)

singling out LGBT people, and even Bosak has made it repeatedly clear that he has no issue with them

Not against lgbt people but an lgbt political organizations. K.Bosak has nothing against homosexuals but he is against agressive ideology behind lgbt organizations.

Simply put: an average tax paying law abiding homosexual citizen who keeps his sexual preferences to himself is nothing to be concerned about.

An agressive "gay" political activist who wants to deprive school children with so called "sexual eduacation" and organizing "love" parades in the centres of big a cities with half-naked men dancing and bending on playforms is a cancer on a society.
johnny reb 28 | 5,329
12 Jun 2020 #1,157
Damn Spike, very very well put.
Simple and to the point.
If anyone doesn't want to understand that they are morons.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
12 Jun 2020 #1,158
Have to agree with Spike as well. Well said. I think this is what 90% of Poland thinks and its a very small percentage that want the craziness we see in San Francisco and other places. I dont see straight pride months being worked on anywhere, so why does there have to be a gay pride month? The whole "I need a cause" mentality is really interfering with clear and rational decision making on the things that really effect society. This is on all sides of politics. Movements or personal matters should not be political issues.

Anyone thinking theyare certain on how this election will end clearly hasn't looked at recent history. I think this is a dead heat in the second round. The person who mobilizes the most people wins. Anyone thinking its locked up and doesnt mobilize the vote is going to be very disappointed at the results. This is exactly why I dont think Duda can win.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 Jun 2020 #1,159
Another poll:

Duda: 41.17%
Trzaskowski: 28.14%
Hołownia: 14%
Biedroń: 5.22%
Kosiniak-Kamysz: 4.99%
Bosak: 4.97%

Duda appears to be pulling votes back from Bosak to stabilise at 40-41%, while Trzaskowski is stabilising around the 28-29% mark.

There was a monumental fuckup by TVP too, as they've broadcast racist rubbish about the huge K-pop group BTS. Young people are mad and upset, and it might just have politicised an entire group that was previously apathetic.

And something more: Jacek Wilk from Konfederacja on the radio said that in the 2nd round, voters need to bite their teeth and vote for Trzaskowski in order to get rid of populists.

He made it clear that he opposes the PiS dictatorship, and that Trzaskowski is the only option to break it if Bosak doesn't get into the 2nd round.

It's becoming very clear that Konfederacja won't endorse anyone in the 2nd round, and that Duda's latest move has gone down badly among Konfederacja's supporters.

There are comments that for Konfederacja, supporting Trzaskowski could be a way to bring down PiS, thus a new election where they could be expected to be in a position to form a goverment with PiS.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 Jun 2020 #1,160
Some interesting commentary this evening, suggesting that Duda is at a huge disadvantage with the debates planned. He's a poor public speaker ("proszę panią!"), and with four debates, any mistake of his will be magnified across social media by all the challengers.

Another huge mistake made this evening by Żalek of Gowin's mob, who made the statement that "LGBT are not people". This is the kind of stuff that alienates the centre ground, and it's remarkable that no-one from PiS looked at the reaction to the last anti-LGBT stuff.

IMO, one thing to watch will be Bosak's score in the Polish Bible Belt. He's been hammering Duda on his poor conservative record, and if there's movement from Duda to Bosak, it could cost Duda dearly in the 2nd round. No evidence of it happening so far, but there's still 16 days...
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
12 Jun 2020 #1,161
The debates should focus on two things - the fact that he is not the real boss and the fact that most businesses have been left to fend for themselves.

Even so I think Duda will be able to get his message across to the old and the stupid.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,858
12 Jun 2020 #1,162
Will it be enough, though? PiS lost the Senate, and the lessson from the Senate race was that PiS don't do particularly well in head-to-head contests where personalities count more than parties.

Something else is coming up: people are reporting problems with registering to vote. There's immense interest in voting among the Polonia in Europe, but the postal votes could be highly problematic.
jon357 66 | 17,078
12 Jun 2020 #1,163
Duda will be able to get his message across to the old and the stupid.

people are reporting problems with registering to vote.

As ever, it depends on who turns out to vote. This in Poland favours rural and small town older voters. It isn't beyond the realms of possibility however that there will be a larger than usual show of urban, younger voters, as there was when PiS were thrown out of office before.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 590
13 Jun 2020 #1,164
While PiS may still hold much of rural Poland, they have also scared the $**t out of their older voters with the virus. Just look around and clearly people who are older are staying inside more. They wont come out until the all clear is given. I think some of them will simply not vote because of this and because some think there is no way Duda could not win.

I also believe that when all the Poles came home from abroad at the start of this, that PiS didnt anticipate those younger people being here to vote in the election. Just how many young people came home? That demographic alone is likely enough to swing some districts and they wont be voting PiS. How many young people have lost jobs, their business, or had friends who lost jobs and/or a business? If people vote with emotion, which some believe, then those massive numbers will not vote PiS.

In the end, every election comes down to money. Who is going to do the best job to get the most money into the hands of the most people. Or it is about removing the group who screwed up the money, whether they are directly responsible or not. It is this way everywhere. When people cant pay their bills, or lost a business, they dont care if the neighbor across the hall is gay, they care about getting their life back.

To think that some ideology campaign is going to work in todays corona climate is wishful thinking at best. PiS would have rolled to victory if not for the virus and how it handled the money during the virus. Any pittance of money for holidays or something else is too little too late. They have shown they are completely incompetent to manage crisis and manage the economy. Those are the two things that matter most to most people.
cms neuf 1 | 1,852
13 Jun 2020 #1,165
Dudas words today were disgraceful. This is from the sitting President, not from a fringe candidate. A low moment for Poland.
Ironside 50 | 10,940
13 Jun 2020 #1,166
Some interesting commentary this evening,

What are you watching?
stop watching propaganda that skew your outlook on the reality.

A low moment for Poland.

tsk what a drama queen lol In fact you spew such a Low BS its pathetic. Quit that drama will you.
I understand people are siding against Duda and PiS but please keep it check here otherwise it make your sound cheesy and outright dumb.

Ah one more thing. Cut out your commie Marxist BS with your pseudo imperialistic underdone jon. Fascists my foot, you commie you! Ideologically dazzled fanatic are just plainly weird to the boot, considering they are into totalitarian ideology that is worse that the Nazis.

Unless you mistook that ideology for a dildo there is not excuse for your folly.
amiga500 2 | 228
13 Jun 2020 #1,167
cmf_naff only thinks its a low moment for poland cause it prob gained Duda another 300 hundred thousand in votes.
jon357 66 | 17,078
13 Jun 2020 #1,168
300 hundred thousand in votes.

More likely gained him 30 crazies that were probably going to vote for him anyway if they can find their dowôd osobista under the pile of bottles and lost him 300,000

The prat was just dog-whistling to the least savoury of his fans.
amiga500 2 | 228
13 Jun 2020 #1,169
You over/under estimate Poland Sir.
amiga500 2 | 228
14 Jun 2020 #1,170 good debate, esp about the differing infrastructure investment policies between PiS, PO and Lewica. Also two experts talk about economic recovery from covid afterwords.

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