The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Home / News  % width posts: 1,879

Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates


Crow 139 | 8,583
5 May 2020 #601
And then, the second Sanacja. And the Golden Age of Poland.

You also need `Sarmatism` as way of thinking, to allow yourself to take Polish ethnicity as part of bigger meta-ethnicity (ie Slavic, ie Sarmatian/Serbian) and then also you can think of Polish ethnicity as meta-ethnicity to all essential ethnicities that are part of Polish national being today (Polani tribe just prevailed among other Sarmatian tribes on one limited territory). You then need national Polish Catholic Church same way as function Polish Orthodox Church. It is good so you contain element of globalism within Christianity and such a containment isn`t for religious but political aspect of Christianity and that way you protect your own ethnic ways.

You need to convince others you are worthy and be able to lead. You need that you look on yourself as worthy.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
5 May 2020 #602
The Brits don't care

In fairness, I thought this was more proof of just how great she is. She's doing such a tremendous job of bashing on the government's door as soon as there's any threat whatsoever to American interests, while she seems to have been heavily involved in convincing PiS to shell out for American weaponry over domestically produced weapons. Regardless of your political view, she's doing a truly tremendous job of representing American interests abroad.

Anyway, something interesting: the polls are showing a definitive shift towards Hołowina. It seems that he's picking up serious momentum among supporters of the opposition, but he's also picking up some support from Konfederacja too. If the election is delayed by 2 weeks and ends up being held conventionally, then there are serious questions about whether Duda can actually beat Hołowina head to head, especially given that the economic problems are only getting worse.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
5 May 2020 #603
But no one else is paying attention? usnews.com/news/world/articles/2020-05-05/polands-senate-leader-accuses-ruling-pis-of-election-by-post-trickery

PiS games are really third world level. A strong competitor would never fear a fair election or seek these changes. The strong competitor would give a delay to the opposition because he has no fear in the election. Everyone knows a mail in election is a joke. People not in the country with a right to vote would be denied their right to vote. That in itself is enough that it should make anyone question this. Why would anyone seek to deny a citizens rights?
mafketis 23 | 8,381
5 May 2020 #604
PiS games are really third world level

Sub-third world, organizers of Mexican dog fights would have too much self-respect than to emulate them...

she's doing a truly tremendous job of representing American interests abroad

She's not.... subtle but she understands that part of the job very well.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
5 May 2020 #605
PiS games are really third world level.

They are, and there's no real logic to it. They've told people that it's not safe to loan out library books for 2 weeks after they're returned, but they're happy for people to handle ballot papers 24-48 hours after being packed. It's illogical.

I suspect that they simply don't know what to do. Kaczyński knows that Duda's support will start to slip in the coming months as the economic damage comes clear, especially if large amounts of younger people no longer have summer jobs. Yet, they could have proposed to change the regulations so that the election could be held up until 21 days before the end of the President's term, giving them some time to reopen society.

Update: The Senate rejected postal voting by 50 votes to 36. Now the law returns to the Sejm. As a reminder, elections are supposed to be held on Sunday, and there's no provisions in place for them to take place.

On an unrelated piece of news, the Acting First President of the Supreme Court, a puppet appointed by Duda, has declared that the disciplinary chamber of the Supreme Court is now functioning again, despite the clear order from the European Court of Justice for it to be suspended. I fully expect that a new puppet First President (probably the same as this one) will be appointed as a result, and democracy is one step closer to ending in Poland.

(awaiting comments from Ironside, who will tell us how great it is that the government controls the judiciary, just like it was before 1989).
mafketis 23 | 8,381
5 May 2020 #606
elections are supposed to be held on Sunday, and there's no provisions in place for them to take place

JK's game isn't that much different from Putin's (which is why so many PiS supporters are holding VP's jockstrap)... provoke chaos and blame it on someone else. There is no broader game he just like chaos and backroom deals.

Ironside, who will tell us how great it is that the government controls the judiciary, just like it was before 1989

No, he's too addicted to contrarianism, he'll never say what he wants in positive terms (I don't think he's capable of positive expression) it's always "X is lousy and a bunch of meaningless slogans"
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
5 May 2020 #607
IF it is not supported in the Sejm then the vote will have to be postponed. My understanding anyway. If the vote is postponed, Duda is done, and so is PiS. Look for more games to be played tomorrow.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
5 May 2020 #608
Kaczyński knows that Duda's support will start to slip in the coming months as the economic damage comes clear

I think it's also a fear of campaigning... he wasn't doing so great. Coronavirus been very very good to heem. (obscure pop culture reference)
Ironside 49 | 10,302
5 May 2020 #609
an isolationist far-right government

What that? Is that even an argument or a litany of leftie platitudes?

But their economic policy and fiscal management will break Poland eventually.

Ditto!

The current US Ambassador to Poland has been making statements in defense of the non-PiS controlled media

What a joke. How dare she? A Stupid old crone.
The system in Poland doesn't work like in the USA. So gov can always close any media they want. They just didn't do it, for 30 years. Legally they can.

awaiting comments from Ironside,

A Puppet you say? It means all nominees for the last 30 years have been puppets. Don't be absurd. As for judiciary, it would be nice to have fairly better set up system but that goes for everything. So from aviavble choices I would have rather judiciary controlled by gov (as it is in many countries one way or the other) that by some mafia like circles of cronies, family and friends without any outside control. Wouldn't you?
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 May 2020 #610
IF it is not supported in the Sejm then the vote will have to be postponed.

According to the exact legal situation, not necessarily - the default position is that the election goes ahead on the 10th May in a traditional form.

However, in practice, it's impossible to organise such an election without the cooperation of local governments. They can use some legal tricks to delay the election until the 23rd, but it's very clear that it would result in a huge amount of chaos.

The most likely scenario is a state of emergency being declared, or if Kaczyński wants to risk it, new elections in August for both the National Assembly and the President.

The news today is that PiS were trying to hold a session of the Sejm during the same time as the debate broadcast on TVP, but the Senate outsmarted them - they won't deliver the formal objections to the law until ąbout 22:00. They have until 23:00 to formally register their rejection of the draft law.

Other interesting news is that opposition MP's are headed into the Sejm now, and that there seems to be unity among all the opposition parties, including Konfederacja.

I am almost certain that PiS will try some dirty tricks this evening to pass the law.
cms neuf - | 1,588
6 May 2020 #611
Who can declare a state of emergency ?

You mean a state of emergency about their virus or one about the elections ? Because if it's about the virus you will not get people back into their houses now they have been let out and are shopping, exercising and working again.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
6 May 2020 #612
You mean a state of emergency about their virus

A sane government with an iota of integrity would have declared a state of emergency back in March.... but this is PiS we're talking about (Przekręty i Szalbierstwo) so they've created this total mess because they realize Duda's best hope is to not have to campaign and JK likes chaos (remember GoT "Chaos is a ladder")

you will not get people back into their houses now they have been let out

A dramatic rise in the number of hospitalizations and/or deaths might do it.... or might not.
cms neuf - | 1,588
6 May 2020 #613
Honestly I doubt it - unless we have Italian levels of deaths then that's it - people will not go back inside. The kids are at it like rabbits already after being apart for two months
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 May 2020 #614
If I understand the law on the state of emergency correctly, the law is full of "the government can....", not "the government must...". So, for instance, they can declare a state of emergency at 12:00, issue regulations postponing the election, then cancel the state of emergency as soon as the regulations have been published. They aren't under any obligation to actually do anything else.

A dramatic rise in the number of hospitalizations and/or deaths might do it.... or might not.

I suspect that if that happens, they'll start to enforce the mask laws more seriously. Right now, a lot of people simply aren't following the rules properly.
mafketis 23 | 8,381
6 May 2020 #615
a lot of people simply aren't following the rules properly

Yes, it's disheartening to think so many of my neighbors are either morons or selfish @ssh0les...
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
6 May 2020 #616
Based on what I read, everyone will be present to vote down this proposed law at 10 pm this evening. They had until 11 to vote. Then Duda could possibly resign triggering a new election in August. Personally I dont think Duda has the balls to resign and be the face in history as throwing Poland into a Political state of emergency during a pandemic. Something tells me, the vote will take place in June or July with regular procedures. This gives PiS enough time to pass their abortion laws and get rid of judges. Looks like JK may have over played his hand.

@mafketis

Numbers down again today. Would have been below 300 if not for another coal mine cluster. Every day that passes gives the pandemic less power, and in effect PiS less power. Soon everyone will see the economic devastation when they leave their homes. Spoke to a friend today at PKO leasing, they can not keep up with the number of cars being turned in early because people cant afford their payments.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
6 May 2020 #617
No, you've mixed it up slightly. Basically, the Sejm already passed the law, but the Senate threw the law out. As a result, it has to return to the Sejm so that the Senate's amendment (i.e. binning it) can be considered. The Sejm can choose to accept or reject the amendments made by the Sejm, or it can be placed in the legislative freezer if the Marshal doesn't choose to bring it to the Sejm.

So, what's happening right now is that the formal documentation has to be delivered to the Sejm by 23:00. The Sejm cannot consider the Senate's amendments until the paperwork has been filed, so the clock is still ticking. If it doesn't get delivered by 23:00, it will be automatically deemed that the Senate had no position (due to the requirement for the Senate to make a decision within 30 days, otherwise the law is automatically considered to have passed the Senate without amendment). However, the plan is that the Senate will deliver the documentation as soon as the three MP's taking part in tonight's debate have arrived in the Sejm - the two buildings are next to each other. That should take place in the next 10 minutes or so.

Once the documents are delivered, PiS can bring it to a vote at any time. However, they need to be able to win the vote - from a technical point of view, they also need to have a quorum (so at least half the MP's need to be logged into the voting system). If they attempt a snap vote, it'll be enough for the opposition to simply not log into the system alongside at least 6 from the ruling coalition. So, PiS are unlikely to put it to a vote unless they know they've got 231. As far as I'm aware, there's no tie-breaker - 230/230 results in the bill not being accepted.

One nuclear option that PiS have is to refuse to accept the documentation, but this would almost certainly be a coup d'etat. PiS are unlikely to have the strength to succeed with such a move, and it would without doubt trigger an immediate vote of no confidence in the Marshal and the government.

Looks like JK may have over played his hand.

I think it's becoming clear that he thought that he could pull this off, but he clearly didn't anticipate just how difficult it was to organise. For that reason, I'm convinced they'll announce tomorrow/on Friday that the new election date is May 23rd, and then they'll try and win a vote on postal voting.

The big question is what happens if they lose the vote on postal voting. The choices are that Duda resigns or a state of emergency is declared. Neither is a good option from the point of view of PiS - economic reality will hurt them badly by then.

Update: Kaczyński gave up. Elections in August.
PolAmKrakow 1 | 433
7 May 2020 #618
This will be the end of PiS when people see the financial ruin, and come out from quarantine.
Crow 139 | 8,583
7 May 2020 #619
I also hope that PiS goes to oblivion.

If I may say, Tusk is these days glorified in Serbian TV media. Even his role in Poland's recognition of Kosovo is softened by the fact that he back in time openly admitted how he was under the pressure of Poland's western European partners. One needed to be brave to speak of it openly. On the other side, Aleksander Kwasniewski and Tadeusz Mazowiecki are mentioned in a negative context. No words here of Duda these days.

Sure, tragically died Poland's President Lech Kaczynski is a local hero.
Spike31 3 | 1,624
7 May 2020 #620
Krzysztof Bosak did very well in a presidential debate yesterday

youtube.com/watch?v=KxtKZmr-48Y&ab_channel=KonfederacjaTV
Torq 32 | 2,999
7 May 2020 #621
Yes, Bosak did surprisingly well in the debate. I am slowly starting to change my mind about him; perhaps he wouldn't be such a bad president after all.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
7 May 2020 #622
Krzysztof Bosak did very well in a presidential debate yesterday

I wouldn't say very well (the reference to Hungary was particularly lame, given that Hungary has given diplomatic immunity to a Russian bank), but he did well to highlight the absurdity of buying expensive military hardware from the US, as well as highlighting Duda's broken promises.

WKK probably won it with the pen, and Hołownia was solid too.

Duda and MKB were both incredibly poor.
Spike31 3 | 1,624
7 May 2020 #623
Yes, Bosak did surprisingly well in the debate.

Follow the newest developments in Konfederacja and you'll not be surprised anymore. There's are some very smart people powering it from within. Not all of them are MEPs (yet)
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
7 May 2020 #624
Of course, Konfederacja will only exist for as long as PiS allow them to.

As an aside, Konfederacja abstained on the postal vote today. That effectively means they voted for postal voting.
Crow 139 | 8,583
8 May 2020 #625
If I may kindly say, this brat Krzysztof Bosak looks promising to me. He nicely pointed out Duda`s obvious mistakes.
antheads 13 | 368
8 May 2020 #626
what happened to your crackpot fantasy about gowin being marszałek and becoming president Delpho? ahh now i see you have a new one that duda is loosing popularity, pull the other one guv! look at your candidiate ms Kidowa-Botox ratings! rumour is PO is going to drop her like a used tampon. but keep dreaming your PO fantasies! Looks like we are going to have voting in Polonia thanks to the new deal so our vote will easily out number a few bitter polish hating scots and assorted from GB
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 May 2020 #627
Ah yes, the Polonia, who take absolutely no responsibility for their actions.

I bet you're loving the idea of a single party state. Tell us, was your grandfather a commie who had to leave in 1968?
antheads 13 | 368
8 May 2020 #628
the idea of Polish people accepting a one party state again is as ludicrous as the idea of Scotish people being competent enough to manage an independent country. When PiS lose popular support theyll be voted out, unf for you its another 4 years at least to grind and nash your teeth all u PO people can say is ughh ahh totalitiarnism! just today the german court gave the ECB and ECJ the middle finger, looks like it's o.k in a democracy! don't worry zandberg will grow up one day and become a jewish populist.
delphiandomine 85 | 18,266
8 May 2020 #629
And that there is textbook commie thinking, even down to the random Jewish reference without context.
antheads 13 | 368
8 May 2020 #630
considering you were the one that had intimate knowledge of far-left/anarchist squats in warsaw and gave me the second degree when i said i visited one, i now surmise you are not in fact a PO supporter but really a SLD/Razem/Etc supporter but have not cottoned on to the fact the concept of total oppositon is over. poor delph always two steps and two thoughts behind.

Home / News / Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates
BoldItalic [quote]
 
To post as Guest, enter a temporary username or login and post as a member.