Presidential elections 2020 - your opinions about campaign, candidates

Exactly.
Kaczyński has always strongly believed PiS has to control the judiciary. He tried to faithfully follow the pattern of accumulating whole power practised by communists before. Dependent courts with intimidated judges were one of main prerequisites of totalitarian systems.

However, history repeats as farce. Kaczyński`s atrempts are farcical - judges don`t want to obey him and PiS. What a pity. :):)

A close look at his biography reveals why he would believe this to be the case. For him, an independent judiciary is an alien concept, one that interferes with his goal of a Singaporean-style single party state.

It's notable that PiS haven't proposed a single reform to actually improve the work of courts.

If we had a normal judiciary system before and then it was attacked by PiS I would be the first to protest and defend those judges.

Unfortunately, what we've got is a corrupted system infested by "judges" who were a crucial part of a communist system. Regular Poles are not going to die for them. No one is even going to protest on the streets to support them.

More lies as promoted by Nowogrodzka and eagerly repeated by Spike.

What was the average age of a judge? 36 or something? The idea that the current judiciary is connected to the communist era is laughable, although the Constitutional Tribunal has strong links to the PZPR.

But still, seeing as you're so keen to purge anyone connected to the PRL, I quite agree. Let's get rid of anyone who graduated from legal studies in the PRL from public life. That would be a very good start :)

Perhaps Spike can tell us if he approves of appointing Communist prosecutors to the Constitutional Tribunal.

Haha, Regional, and especially District Courts lower the average age of judge in Poland. In High court the average age of a judge is: 55yo with 20% of them being 65+

The general rule is: the higher the worse.

District Courts: relatively normal (why? because: less power and lower income)

Regional Courts: mixed

High Court: predominantly commie (and post-commie from negative selection) parasites. "Special caste" ;-)

@dolphiandomine, I don't write about Scotland b'cause I don't know much about your country. Why do you insist on writing about Polish politics when you're clearly clueless?

Thank you very much. That's very kind of you!


A lot.

I'm neither pro- nor anti-PiS. My comments have really nothing to do with PiS or its opposition. I have no partisan axe to grind in Polish politics--I'm not Polish, I have no dog in this fight.

At the very root of democratic governance is consent. The people give their consent to be governed by representatives they choose. In order for people to give their consent they must know what they are consenting to--in other words people need to make a choice. How do you make good choices? By weighing the facts before you. In order to do that well, you need honest facts.

Churchill described parliamentary government as governance by talking--he liked to point out the opposite of that is governance by force. When both sides "talk" in lies, that doesn't promote a government done through talking, because it creates suspicion, distrust, and, ultimately, it leads to a break down of talking, because no one believes what is being said. Then you're at a precarious moment, a moment that can easily tip toward force--then, you no longer have a democracy, but the tyranny of force.

So, your thought that deceitful and dirty tactics used as a way to fight back against PiS's deceitful and dirty tactics are virtues of democracy is, well, naive.

The way you fight back is by arguing against PiS with truth, not dirt.

But, this tactic could backfire, as voters might be turned off by it and could lead to her party losing seats in the Sejm, no?


Why, if she is as silent as everyone is saying? If she was out there promoting a political idea or agenda, It'd make sense, but if she's not, it seems to cross a line, IMO

Do you always have such reading comprehension problems or only in this thread? Coz I really don`t understand your words. Instead of transferring money to that nasty propaganda tube of PiS which regularly and openly violates democracy (and they are even proud of it), the opposition proposed to use it for funding cancer treatment, knowing that thousands of people die of cancer each year coz there is not enough financing. What is deceitful or dirty here? Are you temporarily insane or permanently intellectually constrained? :):):)

The irony of those two sentences. Hahaha!


If what Torq wrote is true in post #360 (and Torq has never given me reason to accept what he says as anything but true), then it's completely dirty:

Well, the money was supposed to go to TVP, and then opposition proposed a bill that would redirect the money to cancer patients (a nice trick). Of course, the parliament rejected the opposition's proposal (as was easy to predict), and the president signed the earlier bill, giving the money to TVP. A little bit of demagoguery and half of Poland thinks that Duda took away the money from cancer patients and gave it to PiS's propaganda tube.

If the money was already earmarked to go to TVP (which may very well be a propaganda machine for PiS), then the opposition makes a proposal to redirect that money to a cause everyone would support, and the majority of parliament is controled by PiS--the opposition knows damn well their proposal will not pass. The opposition knew it would never pass as it was crafting the bill. It proposes the bill for a vote not so it gets passed, but to form a public narrative that PiS does not care about cancer patients. I'm sure PiS politicians care as much about cancer patients as does the opposition.

So, it's dirty and untruthful. It is a tactic meant to deceive people into thinking a certain group is something it is not--in this case, PiS is anti-cancer patient. This type of thing only breeds derision and a breakdown of communication within government. PiS may do the very same things, but the elixir is to combat their deceit with honest proposals and fight them with truth--that's if you want a healthy democracy that will endure.

This deceit and dishonesty is the reason the west has been awash in populist movements. The population is sick and tired of politicians lying to them. They're sick and tired of being used so an elite group can advance their lust for power. They're sick and tired of their representatives not representing their interests.


Using that logic, the government shouldn't finance anything until people stop dying from cancer. To use that argument, every expenditure is a scapegoat. Hell, if I was to employ your logic, if I was PiS, I would have countered the opposition with proposing to defund every non-critical program the opposition supports to put toward cancer treatment. I'd play the game out to its logical end. But, then, you'd have a breakdown of a functional government.

Why don`t you admit Torq is your close family? Your fav nephew???


And how should they know it? Do they have a crystal ball and a black cat? :):) That is a serious flaw in your reasoning.


hahaha It is a very idealistic approach. Unfortunately, it never worked in history - bolsheviks got power coz their opponents were dealing with them in velvet gloves, like you propose, in democratic way.

PIS are neobolsheviks today who are ruining Poland. They have to be dealt with by any means to stop it.

Do you seriously believe politicians put forward bills for a vote on the floor of parliament without knowing if they have the votes or not?


Well, a glaring example of how it worked in history is the defeat of communism. It wasn't simply economic pressures that made it unravel, but, also, the movement of the people (especially in Poland) demanding fundamental human rights that shaked loose the tyranny of communist oppression.

You seem to think putting forward honest proposals is a sign of weakness, but there's nothing more powerful and lethal, and most importantly, enduring. Fighting back with truth isn't slapping PiS with velvet gloves, but a bare knuckle right cross.

Guys, the presidential election will be delayed/postponed due to the coronavirus threat.

However, if it wasn`t, how do you think the voters would behave? Who would turn up at ballot stations in bigger numbers: urban voters or countryside ones? It might seriously influence the results.

Do you seriously believe politicians worldwide DON`T propound bills knowing they don`t have enough votes? Is it a rule in the country where you live? So it must have very strange politics. :):)


hahaha The defeat of communism took place after 70 years of its murderous duration during which communists put millions to death. Also, they left economy in ruin and a complete corruption of the society. If you expect that PiS should rule for more or less the same time with similar results, so that you could say its future demise is done in full honesty and in velvet gloves, I must strongly and vehemently say: NO!

Please, give up on that naivety of yours. You are so ridiculously touching. :):) The truth is: when dealing with political gangsters like PiS, one needs to use tough methods. Other don`t work. We will clean up that mess later on,the first task is to remove PiS.


It is obvious we don`t understand each other and will never do: To me, that WAS an honest proposal. What politicians did with it later on is another matter and I don`t care about it. If I or anybody from my family is diagnosed for cancer tomorrow, I would like to know there will be means to provide proper treatment for us. Rejecting the bill, PiS sentenced thousands of people to death. Let them be cursed for ever.

Thank you but I am afraid, we are losing time. Can we end this futile discussion coz I have said what I needed to and now want to deal with sth else. I have a short-time attention span, you know. :):)

I wouldn't say that. I understand you, I just think you're wrong.


And, that's the opposition's goal. They succeeded with you.


Absolutely! Good luck in your ventures.

I'm just throwing this out there, but if you're interested in reading some political philosophy that touches on this thread of thinking, you might give Friedrich Hayek's "The Constitution of Liberty" a look-see. Churchill had a good amount to say about it, too.

That should've said: That's the opposition's goal: to get people to think exactly that.

Tell me who is supported by Polonia on incoming elections.

Good question. Nobody knows is until they count all the votes. But last year during parliamentary elections, Chicago area traditionally voted PiS, while other places - the opposition.

https://polishforums.com/news/polonia-expat-poles-lose-voting-rights-84844/#msg1711368

Polish political scene is quite enigmatic. Interesting actions and talk of politicians. A lot of trickery. Is that wisdom. But in any case in comparison to Poles, Germans and French looks quite stupid. Brits also shows doze of wisdom recently.

Who is we? Tools from PO and company? If you were able to do anything properly in the first place PiS wouldn't have won election.

No thank you! Just stay out of it.


Well, that what I say. Your lot should be in prison a long time ago.

You forgot to add your usual mantra: Scaffold! Gallows! Rope! Knot! hahaha


We means patriotic Poles who love Poland. You, foreign expats, alien to Polish interests, don`t count. Sorry.

phew! you are a bunch of tools neither patriotic nor Polish.

We are closer and closer to the moment when will one Polish Presidential candidate declare that support merging of Eastern Germany with Poland, if people in democratic plebiscite just decide so and if, of course, Germany as a whole recognize that as wise necessity.

Exactly.

E.g., the latest news! Gryzelda has resigned. The reason: health.

PiS biters won`t bite anybody.

rmf24.pl/raporty/raport-wybory-prezydenckie2020/najnowsze-fakty/news-jolanta-turczynowicz-kieryllo-rezygnuje-z-funkcji-szefowej-k,nId,4381420

Pity, she should bite some more scum especially if she was not that healthy.

By the way you know you tell lies about her don't you? I checked it out and it is a slime, reprehensible lie made up by scum for political reasons.

No, darling, it is you who is lying that I am lying. hahaha

Never the most popular figure on the political scene. I wonder how Jaro is right now?

Funny, isn`t it? The Beloved Leader, The Sun of the Nation is silent. Like Stalin in June 1941 after German attack.

He hasn't been seen for a few days apparently. Then again, he's in a high-risk age group, has known lung problems and as part of his role, meets a lot of people.

@pawian has lost its touch with reality. Comparing Kaczynski with a communist mass-murderer that was Stalin.

Just don`t vote for Duda. Don`t. He would initiate formation of Intermarium when pigs get wings, start to fly and bombard us with pig sh**.