Poles say a big YES to our European Union

When all start speaking German as Lingua Franca of the EU, then you could start speaking of Germanisation....


Now that is all in your head....and frankly, I don't know where that comes from?

You have to decide at one point....do you need/want a losing Germany? And what about the other Europeans?

Would you prefer an EU without Germany? What should happen with Germany?


PS: You had an Empire and lost it....has history now proven too that you are a loser?

That will never happen.
As much as the French rise against it, the Lingua Franca is already established and embedded... And it is English.


Firstly, I am only British born and my ancestral history is exclusively Polish.
Having said that, I don't think the Brits regard themselves as losers because they still retain huge advantages from friends gained in their former empire, the greatest and largest the world has ever seen, I might add.

Germans tried to emulate the Brits and failed, so don't have those benefits.

See?

What else are you afraid of?

French is surely not a Lingua Franca in Europe....or else I would speak it! :)


Then why do you defend the Brits? Their history is as bloody, oppressive, agressive and dominating as you keep accusing the Germans of.....is that the Pole speaking?


Erm....definitely NOT!

We had our own Empire (HRE)....lasted even longer....nearly 1000 years, thank you very much. IF, then the Brits emulated us, heh:)

The Hanseatic League worked well too....an idea of an economic union across borders....now THAT was german dominated! Still...extremely successfull...lasted over 300 years and made many traders rich....you can still even today see along the coastlines the traces of those times...(and Poland was part of it:)

Milo,

you should stop observing Germany through your polish WWII eyes, that must give you a distorted and inherently wrong view. German history is much more than that, so much more....and frankly, since the Germans under Arminius kicked roman asses at the height of the Roman Empire, starting their end, I find it truly hard to call them losers! :)

2000 years if history Milo....good and bad times.....ups and downs....won some, lost some...truly bright spots, really dark ones too.....and the newest chapter isn't even written yet!

Good night:)

That is a project thought out by bureaucrats, their idea is to cheat, blackmail and force. There are corrupt, and there many other issues with them, their idologically crazy.

German corporations are only going for it because they smell profit and they don't look beyond that.
There are so many warring signs, but you are blind, you here only unifications as if it was something good on its own.
They already make economy bad because of green policies, Germany is depended on Russian gas, more intergration is a solution to Brexist that only happend Becasue EU refused to ajust some rules. Soon after France ajusted some rules in it favour. \

Now EU try to order Poland about, impose ideology, impose their rule in Poland. They are acting in a direct violation of the treaty,
They make separate rules for Poland then for the rest of them.
What are you so happy about?

Because it is?

Unification = bigger, stronger, more powerful, more influential than every region for itself alone

It's not exactly rocket science....even economically weaker/less developed countries have a bigger voice just because of their size and population.

Size is Might!

(And I don't even start with technological development, industrialization and all that where Europe leads....that power unified, pooling its resources, could take on anybody and everybody anytime!)

@Bratwurst Boy

Mate, I sincerely hope that our disagreement on here has not affected your judgement.
I see you as a regular guy and I agree with most of your posts.
But I vehemently disagree with you on The EU.


Guilty as charged!
Why should I?
What has really changed in the German psyche?
Berlin still wants to control Europe.
Germany is by far the most powerful economy in Europe, but too many Germans think that gives them the right to tell other European nations how to behave.....WRONG!

If Germans push East Europeans too hard there will be a breaking point.


That does not work with me.
Bigger, more bloated, less controllable and weaker.....
You talk about empires and to me The Eu is a German empire.
But all these empires failed in the end!
British, Roman, Germanic, Greek, Turkish, Russian,French, Spanish, Portuguese. ..... all gone.....
How long before The Eu collapses?
A question of time.
But collapse it will.

Thing is I don't believe you disagree on the EU or on the point of a union generally, you often post here as a proud Brit, I never have you seen criticizing their empire, their union.

Your problem are the Germans only....and that is another topic altogether!


Been here recently? I wish Berlin could control Berlin....we Berliners would be perfectly happy with that....but its not happening....Berlin is a failed state!

Your image of the Germans lives alone in your head, and it is incredible difficult to discuss with a prejudice, a cliche, a non-existing stereotype, a fear. Maybe we should leave the EU out of our future discussions. Our disagreement isn't really about the european union....


It's the run of time I think....all Empires go through a kind of evolution.....usually they don't end with a poof but rather fizzle out. It's all true what you and Cojest say....they become to big, to bloated, to corrupt, to bureaucratic...the inner differences to big, the leadership to weak....all true.

But you know what happens then? After a time a new Empire/Union will be founded...sometimes even in the territory of the old one....a new name....a fresh spirit...fresh enthusiasm...again and again and again....

The advantages are just to big to ignore!

Yeah....in time the EU will collapse, but I truly think for the upcoming centuries she will be Europe's only way to stay on top....to keep in the play with the real global big players...not to be overrun and become a used hasbeen on the world stages, depending on foreign powers and their whims!

Do I?
I don't mean to come acros that way.
As I have said, besides being born here, culturally, I am not British.
But I don't think that Brits should be ashamed of their history.


No.
The French too, but they don't have the power or strength of the Germans.
Yes, I still see Germany as a threat.
Not in warlike terms.....I don't think you will, as a nation, ever repeat your mistakes.
But politically and economically, of course you are a threat!
However, militarily, you need to get over your guilt.
WW2 was a long time ago.
You need to up your military big time.
And we all know you can do that.

We agree that the EU will die eventually.
I just don't think that Europe will ever be able to stomach the idea of trying that failed experiment again.

@Bratwurst Boy

See, I debate with you sensibly and without insults, because I respect you.

...you fear germanisation but want us to become a military big boy again??? Man, I can hear the cries of joy from our neighbours already...

Remember? As we met first back then I posted german jokes to convince you we Germans really have at least a bit of humour! :):):)

Because Germans will never use it in a bad way ever again!


My memory is obviously not as good as yours.
Remind me of German humour.

....it didn't really work anyhow....

Have to go.....'night :)

When it will blow in your face don't came here wailing, finger pointing and blaming the others. That project is doomed to fail. It is set up that way.

Look at the people and organizations which are doing it. It says it all. If don't see it - shame on you!

I doubt I (or you) will be around if that happens....the EU is good for some more decades! The global political necessities now and especially in the future will demand that.

And as history shows the EU as it is will rather fizzle out....starting probably with a slow but steady split into an "inner core" with nations willing to go further and an "outer core" with nations which will not.

Now just think about which voices will be stronger on the world stage, who will be heard and who will be ignored....

PS: When your people later belong to the latter, because of decisions made by people like you, don't blame the Germans again for your own shortsightedness and the consquential difference in power and influence! Of course the inner core of the EU will have more of all of it, Poland would again be only a bench sitter, politically and also economically...

Who should be ashamed then?

They probably thought the same thing about the Warsaw Pact.... in 1988....


The inner core is very vulnerable to lots of things... the inner core can't articulate a rational migration policy, energy policy and will inevitably impoverish any non-manufacturing economy with the euro...

The EU worked best before 2008 - that was the year the EU went full neoliberal. They need to pull back and decentralize

If the EU would start building walls to keep us IN, you would have a point.

As it is we need walls to keep people OUT.....as annoying as that might be as a benchmark if an institution is successful or not it doesn't point exactly to it's looming demise!


The EU has already changed alot in recent years....wall building against mass immigration for example had been unthinkable a few years back...today I read that the EU is planning to support nuclear power....with the help of german EU politicians (Von der Leyen herself btw.) who belong to Merkel-Party CDU....a total setback for Merkel and the Greens anti-nuclear power-policy....

I trust in the EU that she is adaptable, she is already proving to be able to!


Every nation has manufacturing and non-manufacturing regions....where the wealthier support the poorer regions.....that is impossible in the EU as it is now, but the "inner core" will be able to do that for it's members too.

The E.U. will now stay warm this winter.


WoW - what a Christmas present for Vlad.
Ukraine has made the shock decision to grant one of Putin's greatest wishes.
Ukraine has charged former President Petro Poroshenko, who is described as "Washington's puppet" in Moscow, with state treason and financing terrorism.
The longtime enemy of Putin faces as much as 15 years in prison if convicted.
Putin had put the West in a checkmate leaving Ukraine and the West with no other choice.
Now that the U.S.A. has been kicked in the guts for supporting Ukraine it's time to stop all financial aid, military support and bring our troops and equipment home.

Let the E.U. deal with it.

Remember how Xiden was constantly calling Trump a Russian asset during the campaign and was going to get tough on Putin?

Its the exact opposite, basically just another Democrat lie.

Amen.

And screw you, Western "democracies". The US ran out of cash, patience, and men to die for your next episode.

Good idea, they are not needed or welcomed.


You really are very ignorant..... the EU don't have an army....
Britain and France will have to deal with it as they are the only military powers in Europe.

How much problem of corruption do you think is important for any country to become EU member? If it really is, then why such countries as Bulgaria, Romania and Croatia have been welcomed to EU?

The EU doesn't care about corruption as long as they are able to implement their agendas. It's only when countries like Poland and Hungary go against the EU diktats that they start crying unconstitutional, corrupt, etc. etc. They are going crazy over the fact that the Constitutional Court ruled that Polish law trumps EU law. The primacy of EU law isn't supposed to be challenged.

It can be challenged anytime....there are different party's and factions in the EU...most are in alliances with likeminded.....if Poland and Hungary get no sway then it's their lack of networking and building of support and alliances. Maybe they are just that isolated with some of their positions. In the EU you also need to find a majority to get things done your way. It's similiar with any democratic parliament (including corruption)...don't blame "the" whole EU for lack of a members success!

If you are truly interested:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_groups_of_the_European_Parliament#9th_European_Parliament

No it is not.
It is similar.to "democratic" parliament of Germany and The EU, but alien to most.of the rest of the world.
Your idea of democracy is not democracy at all.

Yeah well.....*shrugs*....there are of course differences.....in London democracy is done differently (poodle wigs:) than in Washington too (only two parties).....alot of that is due the history. After the defeat in WWII West-Germany got itself a most modern, updated variant.

But similiar in that they are no dictatorships and an endless one-man rulership who jailes, beats and kills every opposition...also in the EU parliament they get elected/kicked out every few years....majority rules....everybody can take part as long as he adheres to a few common basic rules.....you know...such stuff....

Where is my idea of democracy not democratic?

In case you are truly interested:

....Elections to the European Parliament take place every five years by universal adult suffrage, and with more than 400 million people eligible to vote, they are considered the second largest democratic elections in the world after India's....[1]

While European political parties have the right to campaign EU-wide for the European elections,[5] campaigns still take place through national election campaigns, advertising national delegates from national parties. ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_to_the_European_Parliament

But still....it's yet only similiar....the still rather loose integration doesn't allow for more:

...No other EU institution is directly elected, with the Council of the European Union and the European Council being only indirectly legitimated through national elections.[4]...

It think that in a future "inner core" integration will have come so far that the whole government will be electable and accountable to it's citizens, as it should be!

Indeed it is. They select their head of state through his ancestry, part of their second chamber of parliament is selected by this as well, and their FPTP-system - that no one would choose today as election system - regulary awards the majority to a party that gets less than 50% of the votes. How democratic... .

Because nobody was talking about unification or centralization. Once you done it, all went to the dogs!


Is nothing, imposing unification from the top by some loonies without mandate from their voters and in breach of the treaties is not a way to go.

Erm.....


theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/24/poland-jarosaw-kaczynski-germany-eu-fourth-reich

Yeah....I can see these Nazis.....

On the Law and Justice list: (ECR)

Adam Bielan
Joachim Brudziński
Richard Czarnecki
Anna Fotyga
Patryk Jaki (United Poland)
Krzysztof Jurgiel
Karol Karski
Beata Kempa
Izabela Kloc
Joanna Kopcińska
Zdzisław Krasnodębski (independent)
Elżbieta Kruk
Zbigniew Kuźmiuk
Ryszard Legutko
Beata Mazurek
Andżelika Możdżanowska
Tomasz Poręba
Elżbieta Rafalska
Bogdan Rzońca
Jacek Saryusz-Wolski
Beata Szydło
Grzegorz Tobiszowski
Witold Waszczykowski
Jadwiga Wiśniewska
Anna Zalewska
Kosma Złotowski
Dominik Tarczyński - since 1 February 2020[2]
---
On the Spring list: (S&D)

Robert Biedroń
Łukasz Kohut
Sylwia Spurek (independent)
---
On the European Coalition list:
--
Civic Platform (EPP Group)

Magdalena Adamowicz
Bartosz Arłukowicz
Jerzy Buzek
Jarosław Duda
Tomasz Frankowski
Andrzej Halicki
Danuta Hübner
Ewa Kopacz
Janusz Lewandowski
Elżbieta Łukacijewska
Janina Ochojska (independent)
Jan Olbrycht
Radosław Sikorski
Róża von Thun und Hohenstein
---

Democratic Left Alliance (S&D)

Marek Balt
Marek Belka
Włodzimierz Cimoszewicz
Bogusław Liberadzki
Leszek Miller
---
Polish People's Party (EPP Group)

Krzysztof Hetman
Adam Jarubas
Jarosław Kalinowski

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_members_of_the_European_Parliament_for_Poland,_2019%E2%80%932024

You don't give much credit to those Poles don't you?
Empire (HRE).. What was it called?
It doesn't talk about Nazis it talks about domination as in II R!

Holy Roman Empire

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Roman_Empire


Nun ja....listening to some of you they are seemingly only sleeping there in the EU parliament....doing nothing at all to stop the Germans from domineering....don't they work for polish interests?

But then, they are in different EU parties...their interests might differ....

Do you have more infos about them?

Heiliges Römisches Reich as in I Reich!


They don't~!